Hope4us' Struggle, part 2

[Doing_My_Best]

Just checking in H4U -- out on vacation. You are doing GOOD. Great job on taking control of your life!

[Sugar and Spice]

H4U, I agree TOTALLY with Puppy and the others. If you don't see the evidence of the no-contact (ie: email, im, text, etc...) don't believe it. My H swore he sent his OW a text message saying it was over and I believed it until all hell broke loose. Believe what you can see, not what you hear. Actions speak louder than words.

You are doing a great job and I think you are being more than fair, but just protect yourself. If you don't feel it then go with your gut.

Stay strong and keep focused.

[Hope4us]

thanks for all your support guys.

I've typed up a letter I'm going to give her that outlines what I require to give our marriage a chance. It's pretty simple.

1) No contact. No contact letter approved by me. Blocking his email/IM address. Discuss what we can do to ensure no contact. I state if she slips and makes contact but tells me about it I will not be angry. If she makes contact and I find out and she hasn't told me or lied to me about it I will immediately see a lawyer to begin separation proceedings.

2) She gets rid of all Affair baggage. Victoria's Secret wear that she purchased specifically to be with him, pictures, cards, notes etc. Told her this will go a long way towards showing me she's serious about trying to make this work.

3) Either pro-marriage counseling or some books of my choosing on how to recover from an affair.

4) We share with the kids these three things so if she fails to do any one of them they will know why I'm seeking a separation/divorce.

The letter is a lot longer than that. I talk about radical honesty, working on trust, her lying to me about OM's planned visit a couple weekends ago, etc. But those 4 things are what I require to agree to work on the marriage.

what do you think?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I think it's perfect. I do think you should tell her in #3, however, that you are also willing to discuss ANY of your own issues in the marriage -- grievances that she might have. But then and only then.

[Hope4us]

Right on as usual Puppy. I included a whole paragraph about us dealing with the issues she has with me that made the conditions in the marriage such that an affair was possible.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Good. Just don't take responsibility for the affair itself, but I know you already know that.

[Abbey]

I think honestly the transparency thing IS the key factor. As someone who's first marriage was riddled with insecurity from my H... transparency was the one thing I refused to give up in the end because I simply did not want to and would have NEVER given him because of the previous manipulation that marriage had. You have to WANT to allow that into your life and make the agreement that it doesn't become a manipulation from either side. I think one of the factors has to be their understanding and (emotional investment) in knowing what they have to lose IF they screw up. THEY have to have an emotional investment in the outcome, I think.

This time round... I'm in the seat where there's been an OP and I have a husband who's questioning his life with me, is emotionally turtling etc etc etc ... so I know UNLESS and UNTIL there is a willingness to do that too ... make the promises AND keep them without begrudging the openness and transparency ... all of us are simply still on the climb to fix the marriage. The letter is the ultimate test of that. If she balks... you are still in the "battle" of waiting for them to grow a brain.

Some folks simply refuse to give honesty ... I simply do not know why that is. A fear perhaps that showing themselves to be that dishonest, ... is something THEY can't own up to... dunno. Element of selfishness... definitely!

I know with my first H, I told him. I slept with someone else... I'm in love with him... it's over. I did mean it, and I would not been receptive to any of the techniques set out in DB. I felt I owed him the peace of mind to know the truth and get on with his life. I did care for him once... and he had a RIGHT... in my not so humble opinion to that VERY element of truth, so he could stop a lot of the mental insanity and cruelty that many of us have dealt with here... the lies, the half baked promises, the outright deception for the sake of making it easier on themselves, the cop out of having to be honest within themselves and their own emotions etc etc etc.

As the book says... sometimes it's over and the spouse means it. It's probably my only saving grace for knowing my spouse has been "receptive"... and NO has softened to "I'm not closing any doors where we're concerned".... to the lastest 2 days of reassuring me (admittedly a little p/o'ed that he had too... but he did) again that NO contact meant and means no contact. We're all in varying stages of the "we'll see" element.

I'll be anxious to see how the byebye letter goes over.
Best of luck,
Abbey

[Hope4us]

Did you read my letter Pup?

I included these lines in the paragraph about things I've done in the marriage. "But whatever those things are, none of them justify what you and OM did". "I understand HOW those things contributed to the condition of our marriage that made your affair possible, and I'm more than willing to listen to you and work on those things, but I can't and won't be the one to put in all the effort at saving our marriage".

[Hope4us]

Did you read my letter Pup?

I included these lines in the paragraph about things I've done in the marriage. "But whatever those things are, none of them justify what you and OM did". "I understand HOW those things contributed to the condition of our marriage that made your affair possible, and I'm more than willing to listen to you and work on those things, but I can't and won't be the one to put in all the effort at saving our marriage".

[Hope4us]

Last night was pretty quiet. WW was kind of nice to be around. But when I asked her if she had read my letter and what did she think she replied "Yes I read it and that's all I'm going to say about it tonight".

Not sure what to think about that. She either knows she's busted in her "fake" plan to "try" to work on the marriage so she can stay in the house and save money for her planned exit or she's really planning on working on the marriage but doesn't like the fact that she's going to have to contribute to the effort to try and save the marriage.

Don't really know, don't really care. There is just such a great relief and sense of power coming from my not caring one way or another whether this works or not. I talked with DS19 last night and told him to not get his hopes up even though his mother told him she was going to try to work on the marriage. I told him the 4 things I have as boundaries and told him I didn't think that was too much to ask, but if WW is not willing to agree to those boundaries then I would ask her to leave. He agreed with me completely that the things I've asked from her should be no problem for her if she's serious about trying to make the marriage work.

I'll keep you posted if I get a response from her today.