H is Having Affair after all - Part 2

[Evie]

thank you all for replying tonight. The letter was very tough to read, i'm really sad that he has being VERY UNHAPPY for 2 years. I never knew, i felt it, i asked him, he DIDN'T have the courage to say, to talk.

25 yrs what do you mean by 'hackneyed cliches'?

No H wasn't married before me, he did have a R as a teenager that was very intense, he loved her and she rejected him, after that he became celibate for 5 years and conentrated on his swimming career, after that he met another girl who after 4/5 years together wanted commitment from him, they fell out got back together again, then parted for good, after that he met me and pursued me.

D's have taken it very badly. H hasn't contacted either D. D1 in France waited 3 weeks for him to contact her and she eventually decided to be the bigger person and wrote to him. She is angry at the way he has treated us all and has a lot to say in reply to his email. But I don't think it will do any good for him to hear it, he has heard it from every where he turns, he is not getting support. I don't want people to take sides in this, but his family and our close friends are shocked at how he has behaved, they think he is niaive and immature and runs from conflict. I spoke to FIL yesterday and he said when h's mum had been given a day or two to live, H ran away and hid behing work, everyone else was at her bedside.

D2 is the most distraught, I hope she doesn't become any more cynical about R's and M more than she is now. I think she feels as confused, unloved and rejected as I do. I have had the 'chat' with her about her Dads and my M. I was honest with her, she said she didn't learn much from her dad that she didn't already know except that i had had an affair. Xh had told her alot of stuff that was uneccessary and not relevant for her too know, i was shocked at what he had told her, some of it was lies. I did say that I had tried for a long time to make things work with her dad, but there were other factors i had to take into account. I said the affair was brief, i confessed to XH and moved out and we lived with my mom for 9 months, before living with current h.

I feel like i'm being bashed by both my xh and current H and they are both using MY past as the excuse, I really don't have a clue to what H is referring to when he says we have been through a lot and isn't prepared to tell her or anyone. IS IT ME??

I am beating myself up trying to think what I have done to attract men and my part in the M's dying (not long after D1 was born, - and we had both nearly died as i had eclampsia - XH said he would leave me if things didn't improve, i thought he was seeing ow from work, she moved away and lifes continued on), i cannot self analyse myself enough, I can't see what i do. Do i become boring after having kids? do i lose my spark and become dull and boring? i don't know.

25yrs - your right about the GAL, Act as if, don't pursue, show anger etc, I'm trying to find the fine line between not becomming apathtic, i really feel that I want distance from him right now, i need time. I feel like i'm in a better place than H right now, sure i' having this internal battle with myelf that it's all my fault, but i get a lot of strength from you girls and my girlfriends that empower me, that believe in me and tell me i'm nice on the inside.

This letter really sounds like it's over for him. Even if we got D, if he has these internal issues and isn't happy with himself, he'll take these issues through his life and into a next R, if that isn't with me.

I'm not religious, I wouldn't know how to pray? I hope i don't sound patronising, but is it like making a silent wish for something?.

The comment that h made about him being happy that im the mother of his children, makes me feel a little like i've been used as a baby making machine.

Thank you all for being ther for me tonight.


xxxxxxx

[25yearsmlc]

EVD,

saying he's glad you're the mother of his kids is a good thing. It's respectful and that is part of love. Respect.

"Balancing" between detaching and pursuing and worrying about being apathetic is something I don't understand. I doubt seriously that your h will ever think you are apathetic. Just detach, don't pursue, stay calm, hold your head up.

As for "confessing" to your d's, too much info probably. But own it. I mean, if you had an A, even if a brief one, tell them whether you think it was a choice you are morally comfortable with. I'm assuming you regret it. Tell them. Don't blur the lines. Draw them. Live by them. Your daughters want lines drawn and they want to see others live by them. Alcoholics who recover demonstrate that while they were "wrong" or unhealthy when they drank, they did stop and they can stay sober. Similarly, it's alright to draw lines and live by them, while admitting that you once crossed them. In fact, you could be a good example of why those lines should be followed. And forgive yourself. Maybe someday you could ask your xh to forgive you, for the A. Not everything. Not taking ALL the blame for the D. But admitting to him that the A wasn't right and you're sorry it hurt him. Could it hurt? (I don't know.)

As for praying, hey I'm no daily communicant. But I've really come to believe in a Higher Power. Sometimes it is hard to believe in a loving God and a messenger/Son, etc. But I can't believe all the love I've felt, and complex things like neurosurgery and landing on the moon, are all the result of random molecules banging into each other. Meaning, it's harder for me to believe in purposelessness, than in God.

As for silent wishes, maybe that is what a prayer feels like for you. I sometimes feel I'm talking to myself and hear a response, and in my heart and mind, that "voice" is God's. I'm confident that He is the "source" of strength I feel and get, including from people here. We can be instruments of goodness. God sends us help. "Seek and you shall find." I don't have a lot of scriptural references b/c my faith is strong, but not so much my "creed", meaning the details are less clear to me than the over all core. But the seeking and finding part, that I remember.

When my h first left, I prayed to know God's will for my M, and I prayed like crazy for patience with him, fortitude, etc. Then, and still, I ask for help in forgiving him, letting go of our past to remake a peaceful future... Whatever you believe about Jesus's death/resurrection, he was definitely all about forgiveness and making peace.

When alone with my thoughts, just after h's left for Alaska, I prayed a lot. I wanted to know the right thing to do by the children, and God, and h and I. The thing is, for ME, being happy is LARGELY related to feeling that I've made morally good choices. I mean, if I'm 80 years old, and look back on my life and feel I made selfish choices that hurt my children or M, I will NOT be happy. So I guess I'm saying do the right thing is part of beng happy in the long run. Selfish choices hurt people and that doesn't bode well for happiness later. When you hurt people, enough, you lose them. I remember also praying that God would open my heart and mind to the choices h was making. like giving Alaska a try.

So I find myself here. H's dreams have not been fulfilled here. Though I do feel sorry for him, honestly, I also am relieved. The decision that we move back to California is clear. We would go now if d10 weren't in school AND of course, mil has just been diagnosed with cancer. She will die this year, probably in a few months. This came as a shock to me and h. So I felt that moving, starting a new job and caring for your dying mother was too much all at once. I lost my father over 10 years ago and I still say it's an underrated event. I worry very much for how my h will take his mother's pending death. I'm trying hard to take on the "extras" in life; i.e., paying all the bills, childcare, the houses, my own job, cooking, etc. It's really hard to do it all. But I'd hate to be him. My mom is older than h's, and I'm so glad she's still with us. H's mother is Russian, and HER mother is 95 and also Russian, and .....the grandma will have to live with someone soon. Now I'm really going to be praying for strength. She is a "difficult" woman and I admire my mil for her years of patience.

Interesting about your h's fleeing his mother's death bed. Very curious. He cannot see...what? Pain he's causing you? Guilt? Are you like his mother at all? The opposite? Guess bravery isn't one of his strong suits. Not yet anyhow.

I apologize if I sound preachy about religion. I can't stand it when I'm sad and someone tells me just to pray about it b/c sometimes it seems they want to shut me up or they have nothing else to say, or they're uncomfortable, etc.

But then, if God is real, as I believe, it's idiotic not to seek guidance or strength isn't it? Turning it over to God sure helped me sleep. Helps with the OW stop sign too.

When I said "Hackneyed cliches", I meant worn out, trite platitudes; which your h used a lot of in his email to your d's. Much of what he said was unecessary, although in his mind, well intentioned.

Detach, detach, detach. Don't fear that you will appear to not care, if you do this detachment with warmth (not affection, just relaxed ease and confidence in the "new you") and serenity. Serenity is attractive. Fake it 'til you make it, IS exactly what I did so often the first 6 months. I didn't want to drag others down, let alone be down myself. I recall a workshop (unrelated to marriage, but emotional issues would rise as part of the acting process--yes, I live near Hollywood and do some theater/film things...ANYHOW, I cried about H's choices and the coach said, "you were sad about this a year ago when you worried about the M's problems of Alaska, etc." I realized OMG! I have been upset about this for so long and have changed NOTHING in me! WTH?

Sometimes a light goes off and something in us changes, for the better. Well, I'm rambling now. Take care,
(( j- ))

[seekpeaceofmind]

Hi, Evie - guess you've gone quiet this week. I'm sure you have a lot that you are processing. I think it is healthy to some degree to question your own role and choices, but don't be too hard on yourself. I know for myself that I feel now like I missed some pretty significant warning signs, but I also know that I had good reasons for being drawn to H and choosing life with him. I had good reasons to trust him and feel loved by him, too. I just wish that I had paid more attention to the warning signs, not so that I would have chosen differently but so that we could have addressed the issues and prevented some of the harm that has come to us and our M.

If it is MLC or some other fog, what your H is saying now does not necessarily reflect the truth and definitely doesn't represent your past. Don't take everything he says at face value.

Even if we got D, if he has these internal issues and isn't happy with himself, he'll take these issues through his life and into a next R, if that isn't with me.

You are so right about this and to me this is one of the saddest aspects of someone walking away from the M. If only both partners would be ready, willing and able to address the issues. It's about growth as much as commitment. Not to mention maturity. . . . I think the introspection you are going through will benefit you and your children. Maybe he will get there eventually and join you, but at least you will be confident in yourself that you gave as much as you could to the M, to your family, and to yourself. If only one of you grows from this experience, then that is still better than neither of you doing so.

[Evie]

Thanks seek, Yes i have been quiet and sitting still and thinking. One day i'm ok the next i'm not. One day i'm hopeful for a reconciliation, next day i'm not. Then I think would I want H back considering all the lies, deceit and long term plans he has had for himself and the fact that he doesn't love me? Most days i think no, some days i think yes.

I requested that H leave me alone for 4 weeks and for the most part he has, but tonight i received 3 emails in succession, now bearing in mind H is not a thinker and never planned to far ahead (well not with me) he is planning the summer timetable for the boys already, what holiday he wants to have with them, giving notice at the nursery for S2, i can bearly think about tomorrow let alone the summer.

The following is one of the emails i'd like some advice on:


''I know you mentioned 4 weeks and I realize there is no right or wrong or a good time to discuss things however I would like if possible to discuss matters relating to finances, business and the houses.

It would not be a point in which to make decisions only a starting point in which we can start to move forward on the above.

I will put down a few ideas and ways in which I would like to move forward purely as starting point for a discussion.

The business - I would still like the business to go limited and for us both to become equal shareholders in the ownership of the business. I'm sure we can take the business forward and earn more. For the amount of effort we have to do for it, it still earns a great amount of money.

I also think that making it a limited company will renew our enthusiasm for it especially as we shall be both having an income from it.

The house - there are many ways forward, the first thing to be addressed is the value of both properties - this has to be done as a starting point for discussion of finance.



I don't think the French place will sell - Frazer has had viewings on his and has alterered his terms of use and undercut our price and has told the estate agent not to tell me anything about his property and to denigh its even on the market!!

-A great friend eh.

I will be trying to alter out terms of use to make it more marketable and I will have to reduce the price further - but won't do it without consulting you.

Talking to Tizzi nothing seems to be moving and property is all standing still due to the world economic climate.



One of my suggestions is to sell the House in (hometown)and for you to have all the money from it and I will also give you a large amount of money to top it up - you should have between 140 to 160,000 in hard cash - the French house will be signed over to me and I will have to rent in the UK for the foreseeable future until the French place finishes its 9 yr lease or until it sells.

If it is signed over to me you can still use it with the boys for skiing holidays etc etc.

It's just a shame we dropped a big boob with the French place.



Another alternative would be for you to take on the house in the UK but you would have a massive mortgage and really think it would be a bad idea - you need to enjoy life and get away from having to work all gods hours to pay the mortgage - there are lots more reasons why you should sell - I think you should have your own house - no one else's and you could quite easily afford a house like (our friends name)- a detached 3 bed - you would have an income around £25/£30,000.



Another reason is that currently our mortgage is nearly all interest only 90% of it is. This means that we are not paying off hardly any capital what so ever and even if you wait another 12 yrs until S2 is 16 we will still owe what we currently owe now - approx £170000.

Both of us by then will be too old to have a mortgage and unable to even afford a house like your moms.



I would also like to set up savings for the boys and be able to give them experiences like the holidays like we have done for the girls. I have given the girls everything I could afford and I would really like to do the same for S1 & 2. If we remain the same paying out all this money we will not be able to.



I am not trying to bu**sh*t you or pull a fast one I would if possible quite simply like to start discussions.

Solicitors cost a lot of money - I don't want to start paying big solicitors bills - if possible I would like to come to a solution happy to us both then we can go through a solicitor/ mediator to make sure its all above board and fair to us both.

Could you let me know what you think please - even if you want to leave it for a while - I will be more than happy to meet or to discuss over email''.



I have been thinking that i would like to stay in this house for at least 12 months. I feel it's too soon to be making big decisions like this.

My gut instinct is that he wants the house sold in order to relieve some of his finiancial burden. He seems to want answers asap, bim, bam, bosh, done and dusted and i'm not feeling ready for that upheaval. He has had months to plan what he wants and I feel i'm still reeling/numb whatever from the news of his affair, however fair he thinks he may have acted.

We are dealing with 3 things here, 2 properties and a business.

I haven't replied to his email yet.

[limbo]

Evie,

I agree with you, I think he is pushing you to fast and hard...I think you have to do what you are comfortable with for you and your kids.
As you say, he has had all the time in the world to think about this, and you have only just started.
If you wait to address these issue's will it cause YOU financial hardship? If not, then stick to your guns and tell him that you haven't even begun to think about these things, and frankly you just aren't ready too.
If he really pushes, I think it might be worth seeing a lawyer, to make sure you are going to be properly protected!

[Holly06]

It is a choice not to read these emails until you feel up to it, since you ask for time.

[Evie]

Holly06, limbo and saffie,

Thanks for your advice, below is my draft reply:

My initial reaction to all 3 of your emails is that it's all too much too soon. I feel you have had months to come terms with and make plans for your future; I'm still reeling from the shock to be honest. It has only been a month. You may have moved out and moved on, but I feel that myself and the children are months behind you.

I agree that communication is very important, more so now and more especially where the children are concerned, especially the boys. I don't want to tell you stuff to pressure you but because I want you to share my worries and concerns, especially Sam. He's ok when he's busy, but at night and often, he's upset and cries. I do my best to reassure him but I can't tell him what he wants to hear.

Separation and house moving are two of the most stressful things a person can experience. I have had a very stressful year and I really do not want the added stress of losing my home as well right now. Whilst I agree that in the long term it may be a good idea to sell the house, I would like for the next 12-18 plus months to be able to stay in the house. I'm not ready to think about selling the house, the children and I are still adjusting to the new circumstances and I feel we all need as much stability as possible at the moment and I think another 12 months or so won't make that much difference. I would like to sit still for the time been and take some time for reflection and recovery. You are pushing to hard and too fast and it's too soon.


House Maintenance Issues - are you still prepared to help maintain the home and gardens?

There is fence panel broken at the back of the garden, do you want me to sort out with the neighbours and get someone in to mend it or will you come round and speak to the neighbor and sort?

We also need a new stair carpet, are you happy for me to go ahead and arrange a replacement, paid for out of the business?

The landing is in need of painting too. Would you be able to help decorate over the Witsun holiday?



Business

Not sure what I want to do about the business, i have put my heart and sole into it over the last 14 years, so for now I'm not about to let it go. I do know I would like some security, so joint names may be a good idea, however, I'm not prepared to take on the books weekly to keep up with a ltd company, I have enough responsibilities already, maybe that's something that you could be responsible for if we go ltd? Have you sought legal advice on going Ltd? it may not be finiancial viable to go Ltd, I want to know what the legal implications are before I sign anything.

I take exception to the comment that I have lost enthusiasm for the business. I have always done a good job and to the best of my ability and I'm only sorry that my hard work, commitment, conscientiousness and the pressure has cost me my marriage.

Would you also consider take over the wages please?

I also think that for now, unless it's bills/car/petrol or presents for the family, that casual spending on the business has to be controlled, we need to agree on spenditure. When you said you wanted a laptop, i was expecting the amount to be around £400.00, not £750.00, that was a huge amount.

The accounts need to go to (accountant)asap, can I ask that you sort out the stuff for him please?



Boys - Can you have them an extra Wednesday, overnight on 4th June please?

To avoid any miscommunication or upsetting S1, I would appreciate a text or call from you, rather than a 3 way conversation through him if you want to know/make arrangements/plans/pick up times etc.

Boys bedtimes - normally I try and have S2 in bed 6.30 - 6.45 and S1 I try to get in bed 7.00-7.15, although he takes a while to settle, he needs quiet time to unwind.

I have no idea what my holiday plans are, I mainly live day to day at the moment.

Good idea to give notice for S2 at nursery, maybe you can do that as you see them daily? Can I have a copy of any correspondence that you give to nursery?

S1 & S2 have Monday 5th May off and S2 also has the morning of Tuesday 6th May off as the nursery is closed.

Witsun week is week commencing Monday 26th - Friday 30th May. Again the nursery is shut on Monday and Tuesday (26 & 27th)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

It seems he has made up his mind to move on, does everyone agree?

Thanks for listening

x evie

[25yearsmlc]

Way too long. WAY WAY too long. This doesn't need to be more than a few sentences and here's why.

Of course he's pushing too fast -as you say- but right after you tell him you need time, since he's had tons more than you have (it's called "planning ahead" and he was doing it long before he'll admit it, even to himself), so you tell him he's going too fast for you and that this is all so new and shocking....and THEN you start answering his messages and replying point by point, e.g., "I take exception" etc blah blah blah. You undermine your own point, which is that you are not ready to discuss these matters. SO DON'T DISCUSS THEM BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT READY TO DO SO. Do Not Respond. Do Not Be Sucked Into His World, which he is directing and starring in and wrote, etc.

Sorry for the 2 x 4, but you're scaring me a bit. And why on earth haven't you seen a L yet? What's with the fear that once you seek legal counsel, somehow a scud missile is launched and cannot be dismantled and then what will happen? Will he leave you? Oh wait, HE ALREADY HAS LEFT YOU.

I AM a lawyer and despite some differences in Britain, our system is based mostly on yours. There is NO HARM in you speaking to a lawyer to find out your rights. I would NOT inform your h of this at all. No reason to at this point. You simply want information. God knows your h is pushing for decisions from you and Not only are you unprepared emotionally to make those choices, you are also totally unprepared mentally. You lack financial planning and marital rights info but you need it desparately.

Stop arguing with H. Particularly about not wanting to discuss things now. It's actually hilarious/ridiculous to argue --about not wanting to argue now.....Make the point that you NEED more time to process all this, and you already politiely asked for it.

Now TAKE THIS TIME because he seems unable to "give" it to you. And get counsel as to your rights asap. For all we know, your h has used the business as collateral for loans for God knows what, and I don't know what your corporation /business/partnership/limited liability company IS or what it means there. Don't know what debts will be yours/his or both. What IS his rush and how can it possibly help YOU to rush things? NOT saying to delay the divorce in a manipulative way, but clearly he wants choices made by you quickly, for a reason that does NOT benefit you...

I DO know you need to know your rights. Please do not inform him of your visit to a lawyer unless advised by counsel to do so. This isn't a game of one upmanship or threats, etc. For now, it's business, AND it will afffect your children. So put away the broken heart for awhile, let yourself heal and for the first time probably ever, set a boundary with your h, and then enforce it.
(( j ))

[seekpeaceofmind]

In addition to what 25yrs said, I think that you should just go ahead and deal with any household maintenance issues that need doing and not involve in him in the planning or the doing. Just part of the "taking space" and detaching process.

Just an observation that it seems to me that a decision to stay in business together has as many emotional implications as financial. . . . I do wonder what his big yank is to take care of all of these financial and property matters.

[25yearsmlc]

I re-read your post, and my reply. I feel even more strongly that you should maybe keep your first paragraph and drop the rest. Yep, pretty much the first paragraph says it all. IF YOU MUST say anything else about the business, run it by your solicitor/lawyer/barrister first. But you are NOT detaching when you answer his emails like this. It's the opposite.

Things do get easier, I promise. But don't get sucked into all these little requests and questions and disputes about relatively petty small things that you are convinced matter A LOT right now....but you are NOT helping you in reaching your goal if your goal is DBing..... Holly06 are you out there? Chime in please, all. I could be wrong, or I could use some back up. EVD is NOT getting my point and since I'm so darn brilliant, and that's SO obvious, help me out folks. Well, actually, help HER out. God forbid I'm wrong and hitting over the head with a 2 x 4 at the same time....INPUT??
(( j ))