YAY Essie! That sounds so positive and great! I'm really pleased you're feeling better, and that you called H. WELL DONE! That's fantastic!!
I bet he was a bit surprised to hear from you, so wouldn't worry too much about being 'closed' about himself. Do you mean in a sense of not revealing much about what he's doing? If so, I think that's pretty normal- my H will hardly ever tell me what he's doing (not that I ask- WAS dislike it, I think)
So where did you move from?
BTW, I agree- I think asking to see him is too big a step now. let's watch and wait to see what kind of seed you planted in his mind with your call. Can't wait!!
L.xx
Walk on, walk on, with hope in your heart. And you'll never walk alone.
I fell into a bit of a hole there... and was struggling to keep it together. Have been so teary and achy all week.
Girl, I am so sorry to hear you have been in a teary-achy hole... but this is SO normal!!! I had the exact same experience... I think we all have.
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I went back and re-looked at some of the basics and realised that I was struggling to accept the separation and that my lovely H just doesnt exist anymore....And I've had to go right back to the beginning and break my time down into 1/2 blocks and think what about what I'd like to do for the next 1/2 hour.
ESSIE!! This is so GREAT!! I was getting a feeling from your threads that you were putting on a Strong Happy Single Face and maybe not dealing with the pain of being separated. It is OK to let yourself feel the pain! I think feeling it is the only way to move past it... actually a combination of letting ourselves feel it balanced with keeping busy with GAL activities. I really like the 1/2 hour blocks idea too!! You are a Queen! Also... try to remember that your lovely H *is* in there somewhere, he is just hidden under layers of pain, avoidance, bs, whatever. But he's still there... just in deep hibernation/disguise.
I also really like how you forced yourself to go out to see people you don't really know & be friendly and chatty. And how you are focusing on the positives of being single.
I actually feel for myself this time has been extremely fruitful, but I had to choose to make it that way. A big part of that, for me, has been really examining my own "issues" and going to counseling. It makes me feel so good that I am getting So Much Work Done On Myself No Matter What Happens. Especially b/c I pull the same crap with other people that I did in my R, so i can actually work on my R by learning not to pull that crap with anyone, even though TECHNICALLY SPEAKING I am not *in* an R right now!
Can you go to counseling too?
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I also rang H this afternoon about half way through sorting out in my head all the stuff above. I rang him to ask for some manly 'advice' - he was very chatty and helpful. But still closed about himself. Oh well. I felt like calling him (up until now I have only called to return his text messages) was a big enough step on my part, and that asking to see him is too huge a step and would not go over well at this stage. I hope it sends enough of a message that we can talk OK on the phone, even if seeing each other is still too hard for us both.
GOOD JOB ESSIEEEEEE!!! I am not surprised that he seems closed. I would actually take this as a good sign that he still really cares about you... otherwise, why would he need to close himself off from someone? I would experimentn with MORE of this kind of contact, because it seems to be positive for both of you.
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I think if he contacts me in less than 3 weeks it will be a baby step towards me.
Great baby step! How about we brainstorm some more? So he has more opportunities to show that he is moving closer to you? Like, "he will touch me for some reason," "he will help me with something he doesn't need to help me with," etc? Let's get a list going!
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My goals for me are to meet new people and have a great fantastic life separate from H, so that I am a complete whole person.
This is a great goal!! But I think it is actually pretty vague right now. How can we make it more specific? What will you be DOING differently when you are meeting/have met new people? When you have a great fantastic life separate from H? When you are a complete whole person? For example, what will your weekly activities look like, different from what' they're like now?
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(Having a good group of friends is what I'm lacking cause we moved countries 2 years ago).
Wow, that sounds so rough!! Which country did you move from ? Did the move play a part in setting up the crisis?
Essie, you are a great friend. You have so much love and wit and caring to share! Do you have any acquaintances you could try to upgrade to friend status? What activities would you enjoy trying where you could meet new people to hang out with? Are there ways you can connect with your old support network, even longdistance? Or could you take a GAL trip back to your old support network, as a little pick-me-up?
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I think I realised today that I wouldnt be happy if H came back now because I havent had time to make enough changes in my life.
What a cool realization!! So let's get busy, lady!!
I think I had a baby step. To give you the background, I rang H on Saturday (first time for me to initiate contact in probably 4 months) to ask for his advice with a building matter at work (H is a builder/carpenter). Of course I could have figured it out but H was very helpful and explained to me a bit about who I should contact and what I should ask for etc. etc.
Anyway tonight H rings and tells me he has done a bit of research and these are the exact people I should contact, and if they cant help then where i should look next. He had obviously gone online and searched and worked out who could do the work locally. So I was very appreciative. I tired to move the conversation away from such practical matters and I asked if he'd had a good weekend, he answered but definitely more reserved and then he said he had to go.... So its a baby step I think. Dammn I should have been a bit more mysterious and gotten off the phone first.
I guess I'm back to waiting now? I'm going back to NZ (where we used to live and we met and got married etc) for work in 2 weeks time so I'm looking forward to catching up with all my bestest girlfriends. I'm thinking that if I've had no contact from H between now and then (which will be 3-4 weeks by the time I get home) I might be brave and send him a text message saying "had a great time in NZ. Do you want to catch up for a drink sometime?" Too much? Not enough?
T- Thanks for all the questions. Thanks for being interested and for helping me think things through.
Originally Posted By: transformer
Great baby step! How about we brainstorm some more? So he has more opportunities to show that he is moving closer to you?
H will feel comfortable to ring me approx every 2nd week H to show some interest in me (curious)
The goal for me is I'd like to feel like its OK to be single. At the moment I'm aware that I feel incomplete - like I need a man to complete me / make my life seem worthwhile. I think my major goal in life has been to have a successful relationship just like my mum and dad. Does anyone know of a good book to help me work though feeling complete as a single person? I'd like to feel comfortable to say that its OK if I never love again, its OK to be single. The other issue is I'd really like to have kids....
You are doing such a good job of looking inside your own heart! That is hard work!!! And you are doing it!! congratulations!!
For once as a 'librarian' I am not sure what to recommend. I know I asked you before, but how do you feel about going to counseling?? It could be SUPER helpful and also make this time feel more fruitful.
I really like H's "act of service"!! he took all that time to do all that research and then report it to you. I'm sorry that he wasn't into talking about less practical matters. I'm wondering... how could you create more opportunities for him to help you out with practical matters? Short of, but perhaps including, purposefully breaking things in your apartment for him to fix? LOL! Actually I am kind of serious about that. Does that mean I'm crazy???
Going with "more of what works, less of what doesn't," maybe it would be good to focus on asking him to help you with things AND finding ways to help HIM with things. I forget, have we nailed H's LL yet? Is it possibly Acts of Service? What ways could you fill his love tank in nonthreatening and friendly ways?
If he isn't up for telling you about his weekend, I'm not sure I would try to ask him out for a drink. It might be better to create opportunities to have him see you for some Practical Reason. that's just my thought.
Essie, I think he is just going through something he needs to get through by himself. In the meantime if you can give him space AND show him that you still care, I think that is what to do!! Living a life of playing with boy toys is not going to satisfy him forever. He may be realizing that already... just give him time.
And in the meantime, I am VERY excited about your trip to NZZZ!!
If an australian is an Aussie, what is someone from new zealand? a new zealander? is there a slang term also??
I just read this great book called 'adventure divas' which had a very exciting chapter about new zealand. It made me want to visit, it sounds like an incredible place RUN BY WOMEN!!!
Keep us posted, I hope I'm not bombarding you with too many questions!!
The slang term for a New Zealander is a 'kiwi' (national bird that is flightless and pretty much blind - New Zealand doesnt have many natural predators so the birds could live on the ground and not worry about being eaten). Also a kiwi fruit - which I think originated in China but NZers have claimed as their own!
H is a kiwi, but I'm an Aussie.
New Zealand is SO beautiful, I highly recommend a trip there, but it is a might long way from the rest of the world!
Thanks for your advice about breaking things so H can show me his love. Apparently my Dad has lined my H up to do work on my bathroom. I wonder is my Dad subtly trying to increase our contact?!?! That's funny if my Dad is a secret match maker! I dont want to be too needy and ask for too much help, but I'm making a point of being very thankful for all acts of service (without being gushy).
It would be nice to think of some ways that I could show H I loved him by acts of service.... but it is tricky with such limited contact. it might come on a bit too strong if I rocked up to his apartment offering to cook and clean for him!
I'm glad you are having great success with counselors.... I have seen one for IC and Marriage C. Definitely the Marriage C did NOT help and was the worst DB-ing move. I didn't find IC all that helpful either.... I've got way more out of reading good books and thinking about things on my own.
I love the international flavour of this board - It would be so cool to actually meet (and I want to see those boots in real life!)
I agree. MC was horrible for both of us. She was not ready and just increased the pressure and controlling aspect of things.
I see a pysychologist who is spectacular. Keeps me very grounded and tells me I am not crazy and just going through a tough time and all will be ok given time. He is very expensive but worth every dime. I highly recommend it.
Yes, KIWIS!!! I had some this afternoon in my salad !! (the fruit... not the new zealanders!!)
I don't think NZ is too far at all!!! I spent 3 months in Bali in 2005, and I want to get back there so soon. So, NZ is just "in the neighborhood" (well, in the planetary sense) of another place that's already really important in my life. (I have been doing Balinese music & dance for a loonngggg time... it is another passion of mine along with the cello, and I speak Indonesian too!)
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Thanks for your advice about breaking things so H can show me his love.
Are you serious??!! The way you put it makes me laugh. We could make a list of all the things that could mysteriously "become broken".
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Apparently my Dad has lined my H up to do work on my bathroom. I wonder is my Dad subtly trying to increase our contact?!?! That's funny if my Dad is a secret match maker! I dont want to be too needy and ask for too much help, but I'm making a point of being very thankful for all acts of service (without being gushy).
Essie!!! this is REALLY GOOD!!! We don't even have to break anything!! OK. Let's get to work on this one. Can you "accidentally" be there doing a 180 or GAL activity while he is working on the bathroom?? While wearing a hot 180 outfit? What could you do to 180 your bathroom/house that he could notice (that you would want to do anyway)? Maybe ... I dunno... you could leave a thong on the floor, or something? A hot new bra?? ("Oh, I'm sorry I left this lying around... I must have left it here when I got into the SHOWER", and then he can imagine you wearing it (or wearing NOTHING)) Or even, paint a bathroom wall, or change your soap, buy a new sofa, you know what I'm sayiN?
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It would be nice to think of some ways that I could show H I loved him by acts of service.... but it is tricky with such limited contact. it might come on a bit too strong if I rocked up to his apartment offering to cook and clean for him!
Yes. OK. Good point. Well, two things. FIRST: what acts of service has H appreciated in the past? Which of these would be appropriate to use to thank him for his act of service with the bathroom? Like, maybe he loves MUFFINS. (i'm *kinda* kidding here). So maybe when he came over to fix the bathroom, you could leave some muffins out with a note that said, "Hey,thanks for fixing the bathroom!! you are such a great helper!! Please have a muffin... I wanted to do something to show my appreciation." (I am sure we can ask others to help us fine-tune the wording of the note.) I mean, obviously maybe he doesn't like muffins but what does he like??
If you can't cook and clean for him at his apt, cause I agree with you that would be coming on too strong, could you maybe make him some food to take home with him (casually, like, "oh, I thought you might like some of your favorite entree to take home with you, I had some extra & I wanted to thank you for fixing the bathroom")? Or, is there something you could clean for him when he is fixing your bathroom? Like vacuum out the inside of his car, or iron his socks, or something that would be surprisingly helpful?
Let me know if I'm way off the mark here. I'm just trying to get the juices flowing and think outside the box a little bit.!
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I'm glad you are having great success with counselors.... I have seen one for IC and Marriage C. Definitely the Marriage C did NOT help and was the worst DB-ing move. I didn't find IC all that helpful either.... I've got way more out of reading good books and thinking about things on my own.
I am sorry to hear about your crappy and unhelpful experiences with counselors!!!! When I started meeting with my C, I had SERIOUS doubts. (In my first post I said I thought he was incompetent). But, b/c it's through my school, it's free, so I kept going. And after about a 2-3 month "getting to know each other" period, it started helping A LOT. Now I am actually upset that I might not be able to get counseling over the summer. So I can see why having a bad experience would be a big turn-off to the whole counseling thing. But I would really encourage you to investigate some others... trust your instincts but keep looking !!
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I love the international flavour of this board - It would be so cool to actually meet (and I want to see those boots in real life!)
me too!!! I feel so special that I have dbing friends literally around the world. It would be amazing to actually meet. And the crazy thing about the boots is that they are even more insane in real life!!
I hope you have a beautiful day!! I am thinking of you and sending you lots of positive vibes!! (((((ESSIE)))) transformer
I just wanted to stop in and say that I haven't forgotten about you and am thinking about you. I'll write a longer post tomorrow if that's OK? Been so busy the last few days but I really miss you guys. I would LOVE to come and visit you in Oz- how great would that be?!
((((()))))
L.xx
Walk on, walk on, with hope in your heart. And you'll never walk alone.
I thought your call with H sounded like it went really well. I wouldn't worry too much about not getting off the phone first. I hardly ever manage to do that and so far I don't think it's been a huge problem. Especially in the beginning when you're just starting to have a bit more contact I think it's good to be supportive and open....
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Anyway tonight H rings and tells me he has done a bit of research and these are the exact people I should contact, and if they cant help then where i should look next. He had obviously gone online and searched and worked out who could do the work locally. So I was very appreciative. I tired to move the conversation away from such practical matters and I asked if he'd had a good weekend, he answered but definitely more reserved and then he said he had to go.... So its a baby step I think. Dammn I should have been a bit more mysterious and gotten off the phone first.
So H seemed to like that you'd asked for help and wanted to help himself. I think that's GREAT! And isn't it good to have some conversation, even if it was work-ish? Give it time and I think the other stuff will come. In the meantime, I wouldn't ask him what he's up to (I never ask my H what he's doing), but just mention the super-fun things you're doing in a general way. He will still wonder about you and he won't feel pressure to tell you anything (these MLCers are pretty secretive!!)
I love T's idea about breaking things. And that your Dad arranged for H to come round. Has he been yet and did you see him?
And finally....wanting to feel like it's OK to be single. I don't know of any books about that really- other than Why Men Marry BITCHES. It's for sure OK to be single! But much easier, I think, if you are GALing a lot. What's going on on the GAL front by the way? Personally I am happy to be single, but prefer to be in a R. I don't feel incomplete by myself though- just quiet I guess. it's quiet at home. I don't know if it's the same for you?
The babies question is tricky. I would also LOVE to have kids and feel like time is ticking by. Some days CEO is speaking to me and telling me about wanting kids, and I wonder if it would be easier to cut my losses. But then I feel guilty and know I couldn't walk away from my H or my M right now. You have PLENTY of time to have kids- at least another 10 years or more in biological terms......the way I am trying to think about it is to imagine myself with kids. When I do, I think of H's kids....I can't imagine CEOs for example (however charming he is!). I'm not sure if that's any help at all. I know Beth and Ali have the same thoughts and it's such a difficult one to resolve isn't it? Like an insistent longing that's always there. Sigh.
((((((Essie))))))) Couldn't leave you on a sad note like that. You are amazingly sympathetic and successful. And your H is whacko for not making sure you never get near the open market!
Walk on, walk on, with hope in your heart. And you'll never walk alone.
When I started meeting with my C, I had SERIOUS doubts. (In my first post I said I thought he was incompetent). But, b/c it's through my school, it's free, so I kept going. And after about a 2-3 month "getting to know each other" period, it started helping A LOT. Now I am actually upset that I might not be able to get counseling over the summer. So I can see why having a bad experience would be a big turn-off to the whole counseling thing. But I would really encourage you to investigate some others... trust your instincts but keep looking !!