neecy, when I found the $500 cell bill (one week before H confessed last summer), he found other ways to call her, cell phone after peak hours, pay phones, they even called each other at home (with call blocker) when OWH or myself weren't home!!
Not to say he is doing any of this, but who knows why they lie!??
Yes, it IS very common for cheaters to find other hidden ways to communicate with their APs. However, it's not a proven fact in your sitch at this moment, and I understand that others are just trying to help and look out for you. We all want to hope for the best but should at the very least prepare ourselves for the worst, as you did with the phone bill. Good job, btw.
You already know that OW's name is going to come up frequently because she and H work together. They HAVE to have this contact. There's no way around it, but it should be limited to work related matters only, and from what I've read and been told thus far, I'd say, and quite comfortably, that this is the case. At this point, I don't believe there's anything more to their R other than work.
Now, could I be mistaken? Of course I could! There's always that unfortunate possibility, but WHY would I want to focus on such a thought? Something so negative and disheartening.....???
I say no, let it go. Focus on BETTER things. On YOU and what makes YOU feel POSITIVE and GOOD.
All that said, and now that I have a much better understanding of your feelings about your sitch, then tell H's parents IF and WHEN you are ready and feel it is absolutely necessary. Furthermore, if you are honestly ok with the way things are at this particular point in your M, then that is your decision and others should accept and respect this.
Take care of yourself, lady!
This strikes me as "putting your head in the sand," I'm sorry. People do NOT "have to work together," not if saving one's marriage is a priority. Neecy's husband should have ended all contact a long time ago, and come back and worked on his marriage. Can she MAKE him do that? No, but she certainly doesn't need to -- and SHOULDN'T -- tolerate his contact with his girlfriend.
"Why would you want to focus on such a thought?" Because it's REALITY. And I would much rather deal in reality than in wishful thinking when planning my future and my life.
Neecy's H and OW work for the same company, though now in different locations, but for business-related issues, there IS contact that must take place for business purposes.
What should she do then? Insist on her H quitting his job? Demand that he stop talking to OW because it pains her? The latter I can certainly understand, and I agree that it shouldn't be tolerated, but we are not in Neecy's shoes here. We are NOT in HER sitch, and she has stated that she feels pretty certain that no contact is continuing to take place between them. HOWEVER, she is also NOT blind to the fact that this could be unlikely.
The fact is they work together. Neither is going anywhere, at least not anytime soon. So again, as we've always agreed, it is Neecy's choice, and I believe she's somewhat ok with the type of contact that is currently taking place - business contact. From what she's been able to determine thus far, that is as far as it has gone.
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"Why would you want to focus on such a thought?" Because it's REALITY. And I would much rather deal in reality than in wishful thinking when planning my future and my life.
But that's just me.
Right.
Sooo.....Should Neecy go around everyday believing, "Once a cheater, always a cheater" or that "all cheaters lie"? Should she go through her days constantly thinking, "What is he doing right now?", "Is he talking to her?", "I just know he's doing SOMETHING wrong"..??
The point I'm trying to make is this: Sometimes one SHOULD REALLY TRY to give their S the benefit of the doubt, even if they don't particularly act like they deserve it. Personally, I do not see this as "wishful thinking". I see it as a way to STOP NEGATIVE THINKING which will drive anyone crazy.
What's the saying?.....Hope for the bestbut expect the worst.
Neecy CAN do what she wants, and no one should try to convince her to do otherwise. We can forewarn her so to speak, but we should also give her the positive support she would greatly appreciate. We ought to just BE THERE for her. Give advice when she asks for it and NOT get bothered if/when she's not doing it OUR way or as we suggested.
But that's just the way I choose to see it.
Last edited by GoingForward; 04/04/0804:43 AM.
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
Neecy's H and OW work for the same company, though now in different locations, but for business-related issues, there IS contact that must take place for business purposes.
What should she do then? Insist on her H quitting his job?
Yes, IF he wants to remain married to her, he must end all contact with OW, and he can't do that if he has regular contact with her. If he doesn't want to work on the marriage, then that's his choice.
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The fact is they work together. Neither is going anywhere, at least not anytime soon. So again, as we've always agreed, it is Neecy's choice, and I believe she's somewhat ok with the type of contact that is currently taking place - business contact. From what she's been able to determine thus far, that is as far as it has gone.
Unfortunately, her husband will never get over the OM as long as he has contact -- ANY kind of contact -- with her. His brain chemicals don't distinguish between romantic contact and business contact, or even NEGATIVE contact. Contact is contact, and the withdrawal process that he needs to go thru in order to get over her will never start so long as he's in contact with her. That's not my opinion -- it's a physiological fact.
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Sooo.....Should Neecy go around everyday believing, "Once a cheater, always a cheater" or that "all cheaters lie"? Should she go through her days constantly thinking, "What is he doing right now?", "Is he talking to her?", "I just know he's doing SOMETHING wrong"..??
The point I'm trying to make is this: Sometimes one SHOULD REALLY TRY to give their S the benefit of the doubt, even if they don't particularly act like they deserve it. Personally, I do not see this as "wishful thinking". I see it as a way to STOP NEGATIVE THINKING which will drive anyone crazy.
What's the saying?.....Hope for the best but expect the worst.
I prefer Ronald Reagan's line about the Soviets: "Trust, but verify."
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Neecy CAN do what she wants, and no one should try to convince her to do otherwise. We can forewarn her so to speak, but we should also give her the positive support she would greatly appreciate. We ought to just BE THERE for her. Give advice when she asks for it and NOT get bothered if/when she's not doing it OUR way or as we suggested.
It doesn't bother me at all, GF. Neecy's a big girl, and she's free to accept or reject ANY of the advice she gets, on this board or elsewhere. All I can do is share the benefit of my knowledge of affairs, and my own experience. And she HAS been asking for advice -- daily. If mine bothers you, that's your issue, not mine.
I'm coming at this from the perspective of reading what Neecy has shared with all of us, and what seems to have worked -- and NOT worked -- for her, and then based on my own experience and knowledge, give her help as best I can. When I see things I think she's doing well, I'm one of her biggest cheerleaders. When I disagree, and see her doing things that in my opinion have been part of the problem, I say so.
We don't ANY of these folks any favors when we simply rubber-stamp their efforts and agree with them and offer e-hugs.
I would like to make a simple statement. I am not a stupid person. I am not a niave person. If I was it wouldn't have taken me exactly 6 days from the first time I saw my husband flip the cell phone closed when I approached to call up cell phone bills for 2 phones, emails double deleted a week before, addresses in my GPS, a string of status updates on OW's facebook account, and sit and cross reference calls to facebook updates to make a quick and dirty determination.
Why did I search this all out because I happened to see H flip the phone closed? Because I could tell something about him was different. He smoked more often and instead of 3 minutes outside in the cold it was 10. He would leave for work 15 mintues earlier. I knew before I ever called the number on that bill who the phone would belong to because H was constantly talking about the problems this "poor girl" was having.
I have been, against the suggestions of many, a vigilant snooper. I pay very close attention to the credit card bills, the phone bills and the internet. We do not have a lot of disposable income and my H's paycheque is deposited into a common set of accounts, he only has access to one of them that I transfer spending money in for him. Between buying coffee everyday(often more than once and for myself as well) and smoking - now $9 a pack in Canada and having beer with the guys usually about once a week it is amazing that there is enough spending money to make it to the next pay(often there isn't that is why I then see gas about $10 more than normal to fill the tank on the credit card because it's gas plus cigs). Not only this I have-and been chidded about it on here because it is detremental to my mental state and to trying to build any trust- got in my car and drove to confirm H's whereabouts on occassions that I was feeling uneasy.
So what am I babbling on about? I dug for info initially based on my H flipping the phone closed because he seemed different. All I am saying now is he seems different again, I did not decide this because I saw the phone bill and was lulled into a false sense of security I said this because I felt something shift and the phone bill did nothing to jar me out of it. He is smoking less, in fact most nights does not go outside after he gets home, trips to the store and coffee shop are back to 7 minutes.
This month on the 20th I wrote an email to a friend that said "The oddest thing in my mind is that when my H told me he wouldn't call her anymore and he wasn't talking to her(In january) I felt like he was talking to her more than he is now when he says that he will not stop calling her if he wants to talk to her. It may be my mind playing tricks on me but it really feels different." This is what I wrote journalling here on the 18th. "My H has been different since Sat night. He has called me Neecy or Denisey a number of times which he has not done post-ow. Everytime I get up he wonders what I am doing now and why I can't just hang out with him. I have not asked if he has called OW, he probably has, but he hasn't left my side while I have been home. Very different, situations keep evolving. "
Do I trust him? Not on my life. Do I think there are other ways he could contact her - of course and I worry about it constantly. Everyone keeps telling me on here that I need to use ACTION not words, action is what talks. Early on this sitch my H used words but his actions said otherwise, now he refuses to say the words I want to hear but his actions have changed.
Is there a possibility that a week from now I will be on here crying that I found out about another phone? Certainly, and I hope there will be no I told you sos.
All cheaters lie - a fact. What are we doing here? I don't even know how to start building trust again if I am going to look for other ways to get around everytime I see something positive. I will likely never trust my husband again, its that simple. Should I just throw in the towel now?
Do any of you that have successfully rebuilt your marriages actually trust your spouses now? Or is this a sick feeling you have to carry around for the rest of your life and live with if you want to stay together?
Me~34 H~38 D6.5
EA/PA-DEC.07
Moved out~Apr.13,08 Sep. Papers~Dec.7,08 No contact order ~Dec.9,08 and again October 13, 2009
Speaking for myself, I think the problem in my M is that I trusted my W too much. I honestly believed that my W had enough integrity in her character to never ever stray. That has proven to be my own folly, and I blame myself for that as much as her. W just took that as me taking her for granted, not as a compliment to her character and a sign of my love for her.
Will I ever trust her again, even if (hypothetically) she were to turn around and return back to her original honorable self as my wife? No, not entirely -- certainly never to the foolish degree that I did before.
I'd like to be able to trust her again to a reasonable degree. I'd like for her to honor her commitments again to me and our family. But I don't think I can or will ever blindly trust anyone like that ever again. I've been hurt too badly to ever allow that again.
No, the only one I will ever again put that degree of trust in is my Lord.
Will I ever trust her again, even if (hypothetically) she were to turn around and return back to her original honorable self as my wife? No, not entirely -- certainly never to the foolish degree that I did before.
What you said Nocode! I was the same way with 100% trust in my H and I think maybe that's not a good way to live. I actually do think I was taking my H for granted, but now of course I realize that was a mistake. I think Neecy you are seeing that as a negative it sounds like, but perhaps we are just wiser and more realistic & not as naive as we were before (at least I was!).
I do think a lot of spouses have the potential to stray and/or want divorce as in my case, and we never should take our spouses for granted or think our marriage can't be worked on or improved on or whatever. I do think though that you can't go around being paranoid & suspecting the worse, but on the other hand 100% trust is probably not the best way to be either, maybe something somewhere in the middle of those???
And Neecy I hope you will always consider your actions re: the R and not do anything hasty, and make sure it is what you want. I support you always!!! Karen
I'm not questioning your approach; I was questioning GF's. It sounded pie-in-the-sky/naive to me. Although I may quibble with you around the edges, you have come a LONG way, and I think you are being wise and vigilant. I still think you should expose to his parents, but that is entirely YOUR call, and I (and others, I"m sure) are here to support you either way.
If I didn't care, I wouldn't prod ya. We just don't want to see you hurt.
I know that you and others on here care, why do you think I post everyday? And I don't need to be told I am right the dialogue from both sides makes me think. Both yourself and GF have been successful using different approaches. Although she too is pro exposure. Is it possible by reading the description about my H's family that while the threat of them knowing is something he worries about once they actually know it is not likely to help?
I have told his older brother and sister in law, I have told my mother.
Our posts overlapped this morning, my post was not a rebuttal, I was typing when your post came up.
You didn't answer my last question, which is do you trust your wife now, or is it a constant struggle?
Karen - NoCode
Trusting too much was never my problem. I have always been a worrier. I read The Secret the other day because I thought it would be uplifting, in fact I had to stop half way through because if I believe it I basically made this happen by worrying about it for so long.
My only other relationship 16-19 years old(if that is really a relationship) my boyfriend left me for another girl. (of course wanted me back when after 3 months I finally stated to GAL), my mother at midlife had depression and cheated on my father. Where I work adultery is rampant, it is just something I always worried about, likely why I was controlling ect.,
GF I love you girl, thanks for the support even when you knew it might come with some backlash.
Me~34 H~38 D6.5
EA/PA-DEC.07
Moved out~Apr.13,08 Sep. Papers~Dec.7,08 No contact order ~Dec.9,08 and again October 13, 2009
There is one more thing that I have considered. And that is that the reason there are no phone calls to her cell(or her home) is driven by the OW not H. They day that I visited her at her place of work was the last day there is a call to her cell.
When this started OW played the role of the victim, she was in an abusive relationship was not allowed out of the house, could speak on the phone in whispers in one an 2 minute intervals when the boyfriend wasn't close by. H played the role of her savior, gave her advice on leaving, helped her find a house, helped her get the manager's job that he deserved(had "pity" sex with her when her boyfriend claimed impotence due to her appearance-her words not mine), drove her to work so that she could stay away from a co-worker that was stalking her.
Now OW has her own place, she is a store manager, the stalking other employee helped her move and she #1 exposed the A to her regional manager so H would not get transferred to her store as originally planned and #2 sold him up the river last week exposing that his manager(in the store she previously worked) was stealing and that he had a file on it. She composed this file and had it for months when she worked there but did not want to tell anyone in case the mannager didn't get fired and it came back on her, didn't seem to worry if it came back on H, didn't even warn him.
Maybe she is thinking he isn't worth the bother if his crazy wife keeps showing up. My sister in law felt the need to go peek in the windows of the store at her too, that was the effect of that exposure!
Last edited by neecy22; 04/04/0803:49 PM.
Me~34 H~38 D6.5
EA/PA-DEC.07
Moved out~Apr.13,08 Sep. Papers~Dec.7,08 No contact order ~Dec.9,08 and again October 13, 2009
We just don't want to see you hurt.