Popping over from Newbies...seperated 2 months

[JenInVen]

Hi Addie, Thanks for the advice. I'm going to talk to my friend whos a L.

We'll be gone from May 31st to June 8th. Hopefully see some icebergs and whales! I have no intention of calling him while we are gone. HE can call us. I'll leave him my brothers phone number. I'm really looking forward to the trip.

Jen

[cw68]

Well, just be careful about interpreting documents even with the help of a friend. There's nothing like a lawyer who's working for you, even if you don't get on on retainer but pay for an hour or two of guidance.

[JenInVen]

Thanks CW. I'll be checking every option out in the next 2 weeks. I'm going to see her tomorrow and ask her advice.

Jen

Oh...I had the info translated sorry I didn't do it. My Spanish is good but not that good.

[JenInVen]

Did you guys see that the 3 sessions of Telephone coaching is an additional 30 bucks off?

Jen

[JenInVen]

I was just looking at a sitch/thrad that I've been following. I just realised that if I don't make the changes necessary for ME and work out the issues I have then I'm never going to be completely happy. I've seen how everyone on that thread is getting fed up with that poster and I know that I'm a lot like her. Thanks to her thread I know what I need to do. (If by some chance you know who I'm talking about please don't think this bad mouthing her.)

It's sad that we sometimes have to learn from others mistakes and not our own. But the main idea is that we do learn.

I'm not setting any big goals for my R right now because as Amy said a while back I need to change FIRST before my R can.

Thanks everyone!

Jen

[Jack_Three_Beans]

A far cry from the other poster Jen, but a good thing to be worried about. Your list of 10 was amazing, I wanted to say thank you for that, but here not on the other thread.

You also do not need to tone down Amy C on that thread or try to soften her blows. If Amy gets that far, it is deserved. If a poster cannot handle Amy C's opinion, they should re-evalute if they have the ability to withstand their spouse or have the steel to make thier marriage work.

All types of fire can be used to reforge and redefine yourself. As long as your strong, be the iron not the slag.

[JenInVen]

Thanks Jack! I find that she is a martyr and I know a martyr will never see it on her own. I didn't until recently and my Mom never has and never will. A cycle for sure.

I wasn't trying to tone Amy down I was trying to let her know that Amy also helped open my eyes. Any is a tough one but she shows she cares by her honesty.

I learnt the hard way that you can only help someone if the want to be helped.

Jen

Jen

[JenInVen]

This is the list of 10 that Jack is referring to:

Ten differences between being a martyr or a victim?
1. Martyrs are people who recognize they are being taken advantage of and choose to remain in the situation. Victims are people who are taken advantage of but are unaware of being treated as such. Once victims recognize that they are being treated unfairly, they have the choice of remaining in the situation or not. If they stay, they risk becoming martyrs.

2. Martyrs are those who recognize that their rights are ignored and abused but choose to remain in the situation and continue to be treated this way. Victims are individuals whose rights are ignored and abused but were unaware that they would be treated in this manner before they entered the situation.

3. Martyrs are people who let others know how unfairly they are being treated but choose to remain in this unfair position. Victims are people who let others know they have been treated unfairly. They have the chance to leave or change the situation in which they have been victimized. Victims often suffer silently for long periods of time before they are able to verbalize the unfairness of their life situations.

4. Martyrs often knowingly continue to enable or set up situations in which their rights are violated or ignored. This ``setting up'' is like a prediction or prophecy of failure into which, consciously or unconsciously, the martyrs play, fulfilling the prophecy. Victims often unknowingly set themselves up for continued abuse and violation of their rights. They are often confused and bewildered as to why this occurs. They lack insight into the actions that bring on this abuse.

5. Martyrs often seek sympathy for their plight. They seek support, advice, and help from others. Yet they seem stuck in their current course of action and seem to be unable to resolve it. Victims frequently never seek help. They are often frustrated and lost as to what needs to be done to get them out of their current situation. Once victims have been offered help and make a conscious choice to remain stuck in their situation, they become martyrs.

6. Martyrs frequently let the people whom they feel are taking advantage of them know how badly they are being treated. Martyrs often resort to badgering, nagging, scolding, threatening, belittling, antagonizing, and verbally putting down those whom they perceive to be taking advantage of them. Victims rarely let the people who are taking advantage of them know how they feel about this treatment.

7. Martyrs often believe it is their obligation to remain in their position in life. They would feel guilty if they let go of the current situation. They fear taking the risk to change the situation. They are apparently comfortable, habituated, or submissive to the situation and believe a change would be worse for them and for the others in their lives. Victims often want a change and are desperate for a solution to their situation. As soon as a victim gives in to a situation, choosing not to resolve or correct it, they become martyrs. The saying, ``If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem,'' applies to the martyr's state in life.

8. Martyrs have a story line which is stereotypic and habitual. They rarely change their tales of woe. One can meet them several years later and find them still suffering from the fate they were experiencing when you last talked to them. Victims experience their plight temporarily, get help, and are more apt to get out of the situation. If after getting help and changing, victims experience the same problems later, they could be martyrs at that time.

9. Martyrs often mask their behavior with an aura of willingness and desire for behavioral change in their lives. Usually they are only fooling themselves, since the others in their lives can see by their behavior and attitude that there is no possibility of change. Victims usually are open and honest about their discomfort and willingly seek behavioral change. Their sincerity is easily perceived by others due to the actions and behavioral changes that take place.

10. Martyrs are ``professional'' help seekers. They make the rounds of paid and volunteer helpers, advice givers, counselors, consultants, anyone willing to listen to their tale of woe. Unfortunately, they usually ignore the assistance, advice, or direction they are given. This frequently results in their ``helpers'' giving up on them in frustration and discouragement. Victims, on the other hand, seek help in a ``crisis'' only after the pressure of their problems becomes too great for them to bear. They are highly motivated for a ``change'' and are rewarding people to work with as they and their helpers witness the benefits of the help, advice, and direction given.

[cw68]

Jen, we all have a bit of the other poster in us. Some just see it sooner than others. I was a martyr too. Then we realize the only real power we have is in changing ourselves. One change begets another and has a ripple affect that can change other things. That's the power of changing self.

[JenInVen]

You are so right CW!