I agree with you: A woman was designed to desire her H, but at the same token a man was designed to desire his w. I know, because I experience it every day! The ebooks cost $40. (Ok it includes both books but toghether they are less than 400 pages) DR costs only $18 for a hard copy. I still have to decide wether it was worth my money. At the moment I would pay anything if it could save my marraige. Anyway, I floated an idea from the ebook with my wife, and boy, was that a mistake! I'm such a bloody fool, I seem to be completely incapable of learning from previous mistakes. I just caused the temperature in our home to drop by another 20 degrees.
What gets me down completely is that I feel I should have a PHD in psycology to navigate this emotional minefield. I'm always beating myself up: If only I didn't do this, If only I hadn't said that, What if I found this website a year ago, why the hell can't I seem to do the right thing or say the right stuff to make my w stop hating me. I read "the 5 love languages" and tried to make her feel loved. It made things worse because now I was "smothering" her. Good heavens! NOW they tell me that if I want her back I should pretend that I don't care!
I am hurt and angry because she cheated on me, now she wants to D me because am am angry and shout at her. It is like the drunk in the Little Prince: He drinks to forget that he is ashamed because he drinks. She wants to D me because am am angry because I am hurt because she wants a D.
Why does it have to be so complicated!
What the hell is wrong with me!!!
Me 43 W 42 M 1998 S16 S15 D7 D4 bomb 07/03/2007 OPA ILYBNILWY My Thread
Kolle, I hope you won't think the E-books were not worth the money spent. I think the reason they were expensive is b/c they were where you could download them and have them right then and not have to wait for them to arrive in the mail.
I had begin to think I was very confused about the book and what I intially told you, but in the end.....it goes back to what I believe, but she just didn't put it in those exact words. I was thinking of another book I had read that explained what it meant for the woman's desire would be for her H and the H would rule over the W.
However, this book being from a more worldy POV was quite informative to me and my H. I did not ask him to read it, but since he was snooping about everything I was doing on the computer at that time....he did read it...lol. He confessed that he had never thought about women being like men in the sexual area as this woman described. We both were raised in strict Christain homes and believed the Bible. I wasn't just a "good girl" but I was to the point of being a prude! Nobody was ever going to touch any place that hands did not belong before I got married. I had been given the same stuff handed down through the generations about men won't respect girls that have sex before marriage, etc.
Even though at times I thought these two books might be testing some of my religious upbringing and beliefs, it is hard to argue with some of the things she brings out about what society has taught about women. I really had to agree with what she said in most places about that. It's just that I never questioned it before b/c that is how things were when I was a girl growing up. I think it gave me and my H plenty to consider. That is not to say we endorse infidelity b/c we don't, but I believe a lot of problems start with just plain boredom in the R. And, as she points out, both sexes are going through changes at different times and stages of life. Basically she is telling us what we are being told here on this board and in Michelle's books about the chemical responses our brains experience in a new R that causes us to think we are "in love" and explains the differences and how it doesn't last after it wears off. So, we go on to another R to find that same "good feeling" again. Just like with a drug we are hooked on.
She talks a lot about the stage of limbo that a woman is in when she is having an A, and that was where I was when I got the book. The last stage is when you can no longer have any true "in love" feelings for anyone like you once did and any hope of true happiness is lost. Toward the end of the book, she basically ties together what my belief system is about staying M. And, BTW, she does encourages staying in a MR. All in all I think it is a good secular book and certainly would help any man or woman to read it that is having problems with A's.
I hope they help you and that perhaps someday your W will find it on your computer and read it. But, don't ask her to read anything or bring up a point in any of the books you have read b/c you will cut your nose off to spite your face every time! She will pull back further and further everytime you try a trick like that.....and that is what it is....let's be honest here....it's a trick to try to get her to see the light of day, but it won't work. She has got to want to do it from her own volition.
Take care and I hope you will find these books to be of help.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you for your posts, you are really a big help. I will definitely finish the books while I wait for DR to arrive. As I said, if anything can give me more insight in our dilemma or make the odds of our M being saved slightly better I would pay anything!
What you said about cutting my nose is so true: Everytime I try to initiate any sort of rational discussion about D and its effect on the people who love her the defences come up like the spines on a porcupine's back. Sarcasm, anger, irony, you name it. It seems there is just no way that rationality can get through at all. Lately I have been thinking there must be some stealth way to get in under the radar and deliver a payload without getting all the defence mechanisms going. The thing is I just don't know how.
Hopefully DR will give me some ideas...
Me 43 W 42 M 1998 S16 S15 D7 D4 bomb 07/03/2007 OPA ILYBNILWY My Thread
Dear Kolle, the DR book will give you the tools or skills that you need to handle your situtation. For right now, the best thing is not to discuss D or any part of the R. She is going to rebell more and more as you try to point out to her everything that is wrong in what she is doing. Just try real hard not to discuss your MR at all. That will be the hardest thing for you at this point, but it is vital to keep your mouth closed. If she should start to vent or rage about you or the R, just try to validate her feelings by listening to what she is saying to you without interrupting her. Hard, I know, but nod your head and just tell her you are sorry that she is so unhappy with the stitch or the M or whatever. But, don't get into a disagreement with her.....just listen. If she gets too out of control, you may have to just walk away until she calms down. There is a place here on the board that give the things to do while you are waiting for the book. I will try to find it and tell you where it is. Have you been reading the other articles here by Michelle? All of it will help you as you are waiting. I'll go now to look for it and then come back and tell you where it is.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi again, I couldn't find the main "list" that I was looking for, but did copy some links to posts that I thought would be helpful for you now while you are waiting for your book to arrive. You may have already read some of these, but I know you want to be doing somethingand yet not do the wrong thing. So, hope this will be of some use. I've got to stop and get ready for work. Time sure goes by fast when you are on this board....lol. Hope you have a better day and I will try to check back with you later. Here are the links.....I just copied the first post b/c it had some do's and don'ts in it.
Things to do: 1. Be patient 2. Actively listen to what you W is saying 3. Avoid anger 4. Learn quickly to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out 5. GAL & take care of yourself 6. Be strong and confident 7. Do a 180 8. Gain all the knowledge you can
Things to avoid: 1. Do not be desarate or needy 2. Do not talk about yourself when you speak to W 3. Do not believe any of what your hear and only 50% of what you see 4. Do not give up, no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel 5. Do not backslide from your hard earned work
How to act with WAW: 1. Be loving in return 2. Accept some invitations to spend time together, but not all 3. Do not ask questions about your future together 4. Be vague when ask questions about your changes 5. Continue to be positive and upbeat "Act As If" 6. Do not say "I love you" 7. Resist getting into R talk 8. Beat your spouse to the punch when it is time to leave or separate from each other at the end of an activity.
It is evident that I was doing EVERYTHING wrong for the last year. I tell her more than once a day that I love her (But I have always done that, even when I thought we were happily married.)To avoid anger is very difficult because it hurts so much, but I am getting better at it. Shutting up is againt my personality, that would be a complete 180 for me.
I REALLY appreciate your help Sandi. I had pretty much given up hope until I came across this site.
Regards
Kolle
Me 43 W 42 M 1998 S16 S15 D7 D4 bomb 07/03/2007 OPA ILYBNILWY My Thread
I need to vent. W went out tonight with friends, leaving me with the 4 kids. For some reason the pain anf despair just became to much, I locked myself in my room and sobbed like a babuy. Recently I read a book :"The jouyrney from abandonment to healing" Cant remember the author, but she says that the trauma and pain of abandonment is much worse that losing your family to death. IT IS COMPARABLE TO RAPE BECAUSE IT SEEKS TO THE DESTROY THE CORE OF YOUR BEING< YOUR SENSE OF SELF. It feels as if my chest was cut open with a chainsaw and I've been left to bleed. I should be dead but for some stupid f-ing reason I am still alive, like a bad joke. Why the hell would I want to stay married to the person who CHOOSES to do this to the people who love her most? SHE DELIBERATELY CHOOSES TO CAUSE THIS INCREDIBLE PAIN AND DEVASTATION TO ME AND OUR KIDS. EVERY single book I've read says that love is a decision, an act of the will. Something you do. If she wanted a perfect husband she should have married Jesus. God, shes definitely not perfect herself. But then Jesus would probably not be good enough for her either.
WHY DOES SHE DO IT? IF LOVE IS A CHOICE THEN SHE REALLY HAS NO REASON NOT TO LOVE ME!
BITCH!!!
Do i really want to be married to a person who is capable of such deliberate cruelty?
Me 43 W 42 M 1998 S16 S15 D7 D4 bomb 07/03/2007 OPA ILYBNILWY My Thread
She is thinking only of her happiness, I assure you. This is all about her, not her children and certainly not you. I promise you that she could justify her actions b/c she could rewrite her history with you. If she goes through with the D from you, she will wake up some day to find herself in the same R with this OM! That is what those E-Books you got talks about. She is going on emotion and nothing logical. She will not talk nor act like the woman you have known and loved all these years. The sooner you can pull yourself up and stop asking how or why she can do this to you and the kids and all the people that love her....the sooner you will get on the road to a better life. If you want to make a stand for you M and want to work harder than you have ever worked before, then you must prepare yourself for battle.
One of the hardest....and what seems to be the most unfair in the battle, is to change yourself. Why should you change, right? She is the one screwing up! You change to make improvements on you for you! Not to get her back or not for just a short period of time...but for life. Men and women that never thought they could possibly be happy again b/c of what their S was doing, found out that through their personal changes for the better.....they begin to like themselves! They became attractive. They were no longer a big bore to be around. They worked out and started getting a body to die for....turning the heads of other females, no less. Not that that is what your goal is at this point, but I'm saying that whether you stay in the M or get a D.....you need to be the best man you can be. If your W goes on to get a D, then you will be a better man for somebody else that will appreciate you. That is one of the first things to start doing....working on you. Exercise is a good outlet for some of that anger in you. The gym, weight lifting, running......whatever you like to do, just as long as you do something and stop staying at the house all the time. That leads us to the next step.
You need to get a life (GAL)! I know with four kids, how do you do that, right? You are a smart man. Leave the house before your W does. Find a baby-sitter or relatives. I know you probably wouldn't like doing that, but you need to show her you are not going to stay there in that house and baby-sit while she goes to screw her lover. So, find something to do that will get you out! Go to the mall and walk around, buy new clothes, new cologne (that will make her wonder), get a new hair cut........ride around town, go bowling, to a ball game...whatever. I don't suggest you go looking for a woman! That will only add gasoline to the fire. Don't try to repay her for what she is doing to you.
Don't give up, even if the D goes through you need to keep coming back here for a while. But know that you can vent to us and you have people here that do care and it may get worse before it gets better, but just keep hanging in there. I respect you for trying to take care of your kids. I hope you didn't misunderstand what I meant by getting out of the house before she did to stick her with the responsibility of the children. But, that is one way to make her do it. She has been doing it to you. Even if you have to call and say you won't be home that you have other things you need to do....and go eat out spend the evening with a buddy.
Hope you get to feeling better, sweetie, I know you are going through hell right now and that you are trying to be there for your kids and to be strong for them. They do need you and I'm sure they are confused if they know their mom is up to no good. But in order to be good for them, you need to be good to yourself, also.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Don't think of it as a "trip". This is a "safe place" to come and vent your anger. You have every right in the world to be angry! If the shoe was on the other foot......oh brother! But, we won't go there....don't want that for the kids, either.
We are here anytime you need to shout it out, come on and do it. Get it off your chest. Helps you to deal with the pain.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
