Update to my sitch, the end has come

[25yearsmlc]

Yes Mako man,

We can and do recover. It's harder than I can describe, especially trying hard to honestly SEE the harm you've done AND to try & make amends for them.

The only thing more difficult, ultimately, is living the way she was. I just posted b/c you asked the question, "Do they ever recover?"

The answer is positively Yes. Not all of us, not every time and not always forever. But each of us must ask "What is 10 years of sobriety that's interrupted by 2 relapses of, say a month each? Failure?

Or MAYBE, was it 9 years & 10 months of clean(er) honest living? It is Not perfect living. "Normal" addicts have so much trouble with recovery, it's so much tougher with people who have dual/multiple diagnoses, like your wife. So much depends on self forgiveness, which goes hand in hand with self esteem, ability to forgive others, letting go of things we can't control, including our past. Did your w ever see forgiveness, or some model of it, in her own life? Recovery requires a LOT of honesty which is terrifying for anyone who's misdeeds haunt them. And in your wife's case, it's all compounded by her other problems, to say the least.

Your wife has major baggage from her past, and she has mental illness.

She may argue that addiction is a disease, and so are her mental illness issues and therefore, in her mind, you are not living up to your vows of "in sickness and in health". But that's analogous to a diabetic who refuses/forgets to take their insulin BUT insists on driving the kids to school every day, though they might crash if the insulin levels spike... At some point, you take the license or car away b/c you don't want anyone else going down with her, like YOUR children.

You don't condemn her for her disease, but you hold her accountable for the choices she makes. Relapse is one thing, deceit is another.

Again, YES there are success stories of recovery, and more are happening every day as break throughs in treatment are bieng made.

I personally know a woman who has been clean and sober for 22 years and she's still married to her H. When I met her a meeting, she told me "you have to meet someone on the other side of this", so you can SEE a success story. You can envision what it would look like. THis woman also still goes to meetings periodically, mostly to reinforce her "new" coping tools, and even now sometimes she needs that. As I said in another post, the average "successful" recovering person averages two relapses before fully making the break. I don't know what her other issues do to that statistic.

Your sitch is different, obviously. But you asked about recovery and addiction before. I babbled and rambled perhaps. But I tried to give you some insight/info before. Didn't mean to hijack, thought I was answering some of your questions. Hope this helps a little, with THIS dimension of your w's problems.

FWIW, I understand how much she has put you through, and that you have to save yourself to save your kids. Like I said, just trying to answer your question.
((( j- ))

[mako_man]

Thank you for the reply, you didnt hijack anything, I appreciate all the understanding I can get. I believe my wife is already involved in a relapse. Aside from the the things I previously mentioned she was was going to come by for Easter and we were all going to go to church. Then I found out the previous night that she didnt sleep at her sisters house. When I confronted her she became violently defensive and kept explaining that its none of my business where she was last night, it doesnt matter, etc. I simply told her that she was crossing another boundary of mine and she just explained that she doesnt care about my boundaries or feelings. She then came over and started a huge fight in front of my kids, trying to defend her past behavior, trying to explain it all away in front of the kids. Terrible scene. She claimed that last night after an AA meeting a group of them simply "crashed" at the house after watching a couple of movies. I am not saying this is impossible, but she also explained just 2 days ago that if she could have anything it would be for me to trust her again, then I have to deal with this, trusting she wasnt drinking and staying with another man. If this was just an innocent thing why couldnt she have told me in the first place, or told me that night? It was a horrible fight, worst in many months. I have also been told repeatdly that "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior", if thats the case I shouldnt trust that she was telling the truth. I am so confused.

[faithisbelieving]

I am so confused.

Then go with your gut feeling. My REAL concern is her behavior in front of the children mako. I am in this same thing too and you must, at all costs, cut this off at the pass. In retrospect, the single most destructive thing in my M over the last 2 years was my W screaming at the top of her lungs either with the kids in the car, in the house or in front of them. Avoid this at ALL COSTS...WHATEVER the costs....even if you have to step outside.

My W did this after filing....screaming. After she wouldn't lower her tone, I told her that the conversation would end if she didn't bring the volume down while the kids were in the house. She didn't...I got my coat and told her I was going for a walk.

If your W starts hitting below the belt, the conversation is over.

BTW..my IC concurs: "People don't change".

FIB

[mako_man]

"people dont change"
I keep hearing that, and I am not saying I dont believe it but then what the hell is this site all about. If our spouse doesnt "change", or if we dont "change" how the hell is anyone busting divorces? Doesnt someone have to change?

[25yearsmlc]

Wow,

I hate the phrase, "People don't change" and I don't buy it. WTH are we here for, if we are unable to grow, evolve and yes, CHANGE??

Certainly there are people who have not, or will not change. We get it. But to make a blanket statement like that, for example, FIB, are you telling me that YOU have not changed?

I sure thought you had. You're a better man for all this, though I wouldn't wish any of it on you. But how can you say "people don't change?"

I don't want the same things I wanted 20 years ago. I've changed careers and focus in my life. Motherhood changed me as well. Yep, I've changed.
j-

[mako_man]

Ya, i just dont get it because my our MC has said the same thing repeatedly. Then in the next breath explains ways "I" need to change in order to affect a change in my W. Its like this, if thats true then my W will forever be a serial cheater, addict, abuser, mentally ill manipulator till her dying days. Why do some people (including my MC) insist that I should be more patient and "hang in there" for her? If I had a crystal ball that saw 5 years into the future, and in it I saw that my W was the SAME person she is today I would start RUNNING.

[25yearsmlc]

Mako,

that is a great insight about what you'd do, if you KNEW she would not change...interesting.

Sometimes I think that staying with them IS a reason for them not changing, whereas if the LBSer actually finished with them, then they MIGHT change...ironic. Because then the only way you can stay together, is by leaving...

Now I'm going in circles. Hope you know what I mean.
(( j ))

[mako_man]

LOL. I know exactly what you mean. They only are willing to change when they realize that they cant have you, etc. I will tell you this, she admitted to me she has relapsed, and she came to me to tell me which is new wrinkle. Typically when she does anything *wrong* initially she will hide, lie, deny, and cover like her life depends on it. This time she just came out and told me, because she feels horrible about it. That IS change, its a measure of honesty I have NEVER heard from her, who knows maybe she is starting to "get it" a little...

[faithisbelieving]

People don't change

Once a cheater, always a cheater.

25..mako....you have to look at both of these and understand how they originate. True change, according to my IC, doesn't occur without hardwork, IC and a true desire to want the change. I can see your points about using these comments as blanket statements, however, there is 'truth' behind them. Eg, statistically, it is true that once a person is infidelitous, chances ARE higher that it will occur again within the same R.

60% of second marriages fail.

If WE remarry, will OURS fail? Did we REALLY change forever and for the better? WILL WE be able to stop that well described 'insidious' return of old habits? Or..do we look positively at that number? Is it our WAW's who are in the 60% and the 40% winners are US? The LBS'ers who DID make the changes?

Time will out.
FIB

[mako_man]

Marriage is kind of like playing at a craps table. Being married to a alcoholic woman who is also Bipolar is kind of like taking all of your cash and playing the biggest sucker bet on the table. Yeah, I guess there is a CHANCE but there is a reason for the saying "the house always wins". Ya, silly analogy I know, but thats how I feel, yet part of me wants to make that bet again, and again, and again because who really cares, the odds are always stacked against you know matter how you play.