FWIW, I think you are now poisoning your M. You have made big progress. Holding this secret in is going to taint every single interaction you have with H. If you want something to send him running, continue to live with him while holding this in.
The money stuff is an excuse. His financial responsibilities will not change immediately if he suddenly moves out. It will probably save you both money if you file jointly, whether he is living with you or not.
Right now, you have no idea what is going on with H and OW. How about some honesty and directness.
"H, I was surprised to see a picture of you and OW skiing on your new phone. I had assumed you had cut off non-business contact with her, but maybe that is not the case. I need to understand what the status is of your interaction with OW as it affects my choices and how I want to live my life."
You also need to know what you want: -- 0 non-business contact -- her number blocked on his cell phone -- whatever
You make a very good point about it tainting my interactions with him. I'm trying my best not to let it but I know that it is. That and I'm just avoiding being around him. That's not good.
On the money stuff - agreed - the responsibilities don't change and the taxes are already filed, so that doesn't matter. The hold up is that both taxes and mortgage are already scheduled to come out of my account, and H can't give me his portion until he gets paid again.
If he moves out suddenly and I know how to reach him no problem. What I'm worried about is what he's talked about before - just taking off, period, nobody knows where he went. When I got the first bomb he told me he had almost done exactly that (he went on planned road trip and told me he almost didn't come back.) Granted it's fantasy land and would be a very dumb thing to do... doesn't mean he wouldn't do it.
Mulling this over and talking it out more here though. (kinda thinking out loud). The likelihood of him following through with that fantasy is probably pretty slim. If he does it I'd be screwed financially but I could figure something out.. cash advance from a credit card or 401k loan... something like that. Not necessarily great options but they are short term alternatives.
Long story short after all that thinking - OT, you're right. I need to address it. I've already put an extra week of distance/"ick" between us by not talking about it.
I am dreading the conversation. (feels like I'm pretty much bringing the next bomb on myself), but you're right.
I am going out with friends tonight and likely won't even see H until late and after some drinks (have a designated driver) - not a good state of mind to bring it up. I will make myself do it this weekend though.
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
okay. I may be singled out here, but I think we are over-reacting.
First, has anyone been in H's position? Has anyone been the WAS?
I can tell you from a WAS point of view, that this picture may very well not mean much. IMHO, and obviously I could be wrong, but I believe that OW has sent this pic to possibly re-engage their R with each other, possibly reminding him of what fun they used to have (especially since it "sounds" like H has been trying to do the right thing by avoiding her on these ski trips). It is possible that your H has a phone that when he views a picture it saves to the phone, or maybe not. Even if he did save the picture, I don't think it has to mean he is still having an EA or whatever. Plus, if he saved the pic, I would think that he would also have texts as well, and if he deleted the texts, then Y would he leave the pic.
What I think you should do, is take OT's advice about talking to him, but my suggestion is definitely don't act like he's having an A. just let him know that you wanted to fix his phone and saw the pic. could he explain it for you? in a non-accusing voice.
You could tell him that you were under the assumption that you were both wanting/trying to make this M work, but if that is incorrect, then you need to know.
I had a pic of my OM in my photo albums and I only just tore it up after my H happened upon it. I don't know why I kept it, but the R was just a very intense one because of the struggles in my R with H and just being in an A is very intense. I don't know how to describe it. anyways, I would explain more but my s3 is crying now. my point is, even though I still had feelings for OM, I knew I didn't want to be with him and that I wanted my H. the OM/OW is a very hard thing to get past.
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
Nik - I agree with ST that the picture alone may not mean much. Can you tell when it was sent? It might even be an old picture saved to his sim card instead of his phone, so it transferred over with the card.
That being said - the ambivalence about recent ski trips sure sounds fishy - although he DID decide not to go, so that's good.
As for OT's advice - I dunno, I usually agree, but not this time. If you honestly feel there's a chance he might flake on you financially, I'd wait until those things are paid. Sure, two weeks of holding in this secret's not good for the R, but getting stuck in a financial hole isn't great either. Plus, I know you're exceptionally capable of setting this to one side and not getting too crazy about it until you have the convo.
BTW - can you check his phone records? Makes a big difference if there's no contact with OW, versus daily calls.
Nik - The contact with OW may not be exactly what you think - often these idiots have a hard time cutting that cord even after they've "come home" - but I agree with OT that you have to set some clear boundaries on this now, it's been going on way too long. As soon as you get your financials in oder.
Nikki~
Not much time to post, but I agree with Ellie totally. I just set some boundaries regarding LW and what I expect as we rebuild our M w/H; if you have time, go check out my recent posts in piecing to see what I did.
Truly...these doofi think that because they didn't actually have an A, they did nothing wrong...and that there's no reason to continue the friendship even after they've recommitted to the M. That's my H's response..."It's not like I cheated..." Whatever.
Anyway, don't go overboard here. It's an old pic, and your H's behavior is better. I waited until I felt strong enough to say Enough and be able to deal with the consequences. I think you're smart to take your time and think things through so you act in the way you're prepared to accept the consequences from.
(((Nikki)))
SD
Me: 40 H: 43 H had EA from 2/06-9/06 Bomb 5/06 Piecing since 9/2006 3/2008: Boundary setting 7/2009: Boundary crossing~dropped my own bomb. 8/2010: Marriage finally on track!
I reread my post, and I feel kinda bad that I was a little harsh.
Sometimes it's so easy to fall into the trap of assuming. But we should still give people the benefit of the doubt no matter how bad things might seem. Not saying we should live ignorantly, but we only have are own eyes and ears, not theirs.
Hope to hear from you soon Nik and if you said anything or not. hopefully it will turn out to be nothing. Hope your having a good week
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
No updates on any big talks yet, but having a really good weekend so far. Both R-wise and non-R wise.
I DO need to bring the pic up and planned to force myself to do it this weekend, but then he started getting very weird about the tax thing again, so I am hesitating. He basically seems to think I somehow did the taxes wrong and "he" shouldn't owe as much as he does. He's comparing our sitch (two fairly decent incomes, no kids) with some guy he works with who is married to a SAHM with 3 kids!!! Well duh, of course that guy is getting a fortune back. He's not really "accusing" me, just keeps bringing up how it doesn't make sense and such. So... that made me a bit nervous again and hesitant. And yeah OT, it's probably partially an excuse to avoid the convo.
To answer a few questions about the pic:
- No, it didn't just get on there by accident. None of his pictures transferred over from his old phone. She specifically texted it to him, and he saved it (it doesn't auto-save them either).
- It was sent a couple of days prior to me looking at it. I forget exactly what day - last Sat. maybe?
On to individual replies -
ST I agree, it may not mean much, and I have been careful not to blow it way out of proportion or read too much into it. I DID when I first saw it but after giving myself time to cool down, I've been more reasonable about it I think. I don't totally understand how his new phone works so he may have deleted some texts, but it doesn't seem like it. Seems odd to me that she'd just send over a pic with nothing else..?? But again who knows.
I do agree compeletely that I need to talk to him but not under the assumption that it's an ongoing A. As SD said, he may well think since he didn't "have an affair" (in his opinion..) that it's no big deal. I like the idea of explaining the impression I've been under or how I've been feeling based on our recent interactions, and then ask about the pic.
I didn't think you sounded harsh at all, no worries! You are right, it's a fine line between being naive or ignorant vs. assuming and blowing things out of proportion. And since we have not had a talk about what I want to see in terms of contact with her if we continue to work on the M - it's not fair to expect him to read my mind and do what I want. It IS time to have that talk though.
Ellie Mentioned above - it's definitely newly sent, although it had to be taken over a month ago as that's the last time he actually went skiing. I realized later he had his new jacket on so it's from this ski season sometime, but it could be anywhere as far back as Nov. 07 or as recent as about a month ago.
I'm going back and forth like crazy on the financial thing too. I know part of me is very afraid of this convo so I'm avoiding it, but there is a pretty real financial risk, too. If it was hard evidence of a recent trip I think it would be different and more essential to talk about it NOW. Given that it could be a few months old and he has declined the recent trips, I feel a little better about setting it aside for a couple of weeks. When I first saw it my stomach was in my throat and my "ass"umption was of course "OMG they're still seeing each other!" But on further thought and reflection, there are other possibilities and it really truly may not mean very much. Still needs to be addressed though.
I did check his phone records - good lord that guy makes a lot of phone calls! I hadn't looked at his bill in awhile. 15 pages!! Anyway there were a handful of calls to OW in February (March details aren't there yet). Of course I'd prefer not to see ANY but it's not a ton of calls, or daily. They are mostly during work hours and 1-2 minute calls - they could even actually be work related. (of course, yes, they could use the phones provided at work - and that's what I will ask for). There WAS a number he was calling daily and multiple times throughout the day and my stomach really sank. I Googled it and it's a good friend of his/ours who has been helping him a lot with getting his car ready for the next race. Whew.
SD Thanks for your input! I had skimmed your recent posts but need to look at them more closely. I saw your boundaries and thought they were very good. Need to go see if you've expressed those to your H yet and if so how that went.
I could SO hear my H giving me the "it's not like I cheated" line. Even soon after the bomb drop when I was in "raving lunatic" mode, I remember us fighting about her and he said "But I never even kissed her!" Yeah.. that really didn't make everything OK. At all.
Yes, the pic is at least a month old, and his behavior has been far better recently. I want to be very cautious not to over-react but still express my concerns.
Thanks again all.
So I mentioned a good weekend - Fri night I went out with some friends, which I haven't done in awhile so it was good to do some GALing! Yesterday I cleared out a lot of clutter and donated it, and took books to the used book store. Then drove around and just let myself be at peace for awhile - hard to explain but it felt really good.
Last night I talked H into going with me to a Lebanese restaurant where my bellydance teacher was performing. He isn't a very adventerous food eater and it was tough to tear him away from the car, but it worked out great. The food was EXCELLENT and he was totally impressed by my instructor too (hard not to be, she's an incredible dancer). She talked with us for awhile and told H I'm an "excellent student" - and of course made me dance with her for a bit.
Huge PMA boost - I didn't feel like I did very well because I was all nervous but H said I did great. Even said he meant it, wasn't just saying that because I'm his W (and "it'd be even better if you weren't beet red!" - cute). When we were shimmying the chef came out from behind the counter and tucked a tip into my pocket that was pretty funny. I was the only diner who danced with her and got a tip - H said "because he saw you were actually bellydancing! Everyone else was just kinda moving around." When she came over again she kinda winked at H and said "Now you get to see her in action eh?" and he said "Oh you should see her at home when she's not so nervous!" That all felt really good. I started to give the $1 tip to my teacher and H said "No way, that's your first bellydancing tip, you gotta keep that!" On the way home we were joking about our hobbies and I said maybe I'd get rich dancing someday. H replied "Well heck you're already doing better than I am, you've made a buck dancing, I haven't made a thing racing!"
So, another good night together and I think it was REALLY great that we did something so different and unique. Bit of a 180 for us both.
Then this morning it was more about the taxes not making sense... geez. He even looked at them and the IRS website/tax tables with me and he says he sees they're right but he just can't believe other people are getting $$ back and we're paying so much. I am about ready to just give him all the stuff and tell him to go talk to H&R block or something.
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
I'm glad you are having a good weekend. Where did you go? Kasbah or somewhere else? Lebanese food is sooooooooo good as long as you like lamb and garlic lol.
I'm curious - Are your taxes different from last year? Could he be confused because of that?
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
when you have kids, of course it changes for your taxes. And yes, if he brings it up again, definitely say your welcome to take it to someone else. Just don't get defensive about it. Or, you could throw in pretend kids and show him the difference. like you have time for that though.
awesome about the dinner date! you are so brave girl! and sounds like H was proud to have you as a W too.
I'm interested to relate the dates that you think the ski thing happened, and how things were in the R at that time. I know things weren't that great not too awfully long ago. but time flies pretty fast, so I can't remember.
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
(feels like I'm pretty much bringing the next bomb on myself), but you're right. 
I will make myself do it this weekend though.
that was pretty funny. I was the only diner who danced with her and got a tip - H said "because he saw you were actually bellydancing! Everyone else was just kinda moving around." When she came over again she kinda winked at H and said "Now you get to see her in action eh?" and he said "Oh you should see her at home when she's not so nervous!" That all felt really good. I started to give the $1 tip to my teacher and H said "No way, that's your first bellydancing tip, you gotta keep that!" On the way home we were joking about our hobbies and I said maybe I'd get rich dancing someday. H replied "Well heck you're already doing better than I am, you've made a buck dancing, I haven't made a thing racing!"