Please help...need MLC advice

[momof2girls]

will look for it later!

[sleeper]

Hi tpaschal,

You posted on my thread this AM and requested opinions on yours. I read your thread and it seems like it's his move. I think you've already identified the best path for yourself;

"do what's right, no matter how he reacts."

That's all any of us can really do. We can't control the choices of another or even speed them up. If you do what is right for you and your children you can't go wrong, no matter how your sitch turns out.

Be strong, be confident, be consistant, be true to yourself.

[tpaschal]

Some journaling, with a few questions to follow....

H is supposed to have the kids Thursday afternoons, as it is his afternoon off.

Since he moved out in Feb 07, he's not seen them every Thursday, but since this school year started he's been pretty consistent about it. I pick up D14 from school at 2:20, then H picks up S9 and D5 from their school at 3:00. He brings them home, then he usually just hangs out at the house with them. Sometimes they played video games, sometimes he'll take them and the dogs for a walk, occasionally they've gone to the neighborhood park, and sometimes he just kind of wanders around the house---gets books out of the study, does something small in the house like change light bulbs, etc.

He asked for the house to be put on the market in our Temporary Orders Hearing, and I had no choice but to agree because I won't be able to afford it on my own once a D is final, anyway. It makes me really sad, though, because this was H's dream house. He fell in love with it the minute he saw it. We weren't even in the market to buy a new house (were thinking about upsizing a year or two down the road) when an employee saw this house listed online and showed it to him. I wasn't sure I was ready to move, but I liked the house and the lot and thought it had a lot of possibilities (even though it's huge and beautiful, it needs a lot of repairs and updating). But mainly I wanted it because he wanted it.

Maybe the mid-life crisis had already started, and this house was his version of a sports car. I think it's also likely that he has always suffered from "I'll be happy when...." syndrome. Maybe he thought when he had accomplished his goals---career, family, big house, nice car---that it would make him happy. Problem was, he was looking for external factors to make him happy. Other problem was, I didn't realize he was so unhappy. Also, I don't think he WAS that unhappy until MLC hit full force (and OW helped convince him he was unhappy.)

H cancelled lawn service in Nov., and it's looking really bad. It's a huge lawn with a lot of landscaping and I can't do it on my own.

For the past couple of days I've been working in the flower beds, pulling weeds, trimming branches, and the gardening tools were still out when he got here.

He went in to the garage and got out the mower. I followed and said, "Oh, great! I wanted to ask you today if you could show me how to get it started. Is there a trick to it? Your dad and I have both tried and can't get it started."

It wouldn't start at first, so he puttered around with it and I went back to my tree trimming. He got it started, then proceeded to mow the front and back yards, blew the leaves out of the driveway, and put out weed killer. It's the most he's done around here in months.

Not sure why he did it, though. Maybe to get it ready to put on market? He did ask me a few days ago if I had called the realtor. I said yes. He didn't ask anything else, not even when she was coming. And he didn't mention anything about it yesterday, either.

He was very, very quiet. Didn't seem to be an angry quiet, but maybe thoughtful, or maybe just depressed? Too many thoughts spinning around inside his head? Or maybe just tired? I can't tell anymore. I just acted "as if." As if we were a normal happily married couple working in the yard together with the kids helping/playing alongside. I made a few attempts at normal conversation, but when he was obviously not in the mood to talk, I just left him alone.

Right about 5pm I could tell he was getting ready to leave. (Remember, he just agreed two weeks ago to start taking the kids on Thursdays from school dismissal until 7pm.) I asked him if he was planning to take S9 to soccer practice that evening. He said no. I didn't push it.

He was going out the door, and I followed him out. I know I shouldn't follow him around, but I can't pin him down. He's a moving target. If I want to talk to him at all, I HAVE to follow him around.

I told him I had talked to S9's teacher, who was concerned about some behavior problems, and asked if he was still seeing his psychologist. I reminded H that we had agreed (at the Temporary Orders meeting) to do some counseling together, and that I had made an appt. for next Thursday. He just said, "Okay," and then left.

Wish I could get inside his head.

[tpaschal]

So my questions have to do with counseling.

How do I approach our appt. together next week? Should I say I don't want a divorce?

Do I talk? Or just listen as H talks? I'm not sure how much he'll offer up on his own.

Can I actually offer up my version of events, and let my true feelings be known, or is this a time to listen, validate, and keep my mouth shut to listen to what he has to say?

[princess_nic]

Nic,

Wow. HOW did you get to this place? I feel exactly like ACJ. I am struggling against it so hard---accepting a D. I can't accept that a D is what's best for any of us---me, H, or the kids. But it appears I have no choice. So how did you get to that acceptance? I would really appreciate it if you could check out my thread here on the MLC board. I am spinning and could use some input.

Thanks.

Hi tp,

I'm not sure how much help I can be to you, as I am really in a different place, emotionally.

In my case, it took me about 2 years to get to this place. I made the big break when stbx got serious about his gf and started having her sleep over when the kids were w/ him. That was when I really accepted that my M was over, and that a D wouldn't make it any more dead than it already was.

The thing is, the more distance I have gotten from the M, the more I have been able to see that it was not a good M in many ways. At its best, it was okay; at its worst, it was unlivable. Now, I am not saying that this is the case for you - that is why I am hesitant to give advice. There are people on here who had great Ms, until their Ss did a 180 one day and left. I do think that my stbx is/was going through some kind of MLC, but he also has some major issues (alcohol, narcissism, infidelity, porn) that did not start in MLC and will not end with it - if MLC even comes into play here.

I don't know if this will help you, but it's the best I can do.

Best wishes,
Nicola

[tpaschal]

nic,

Thanks for stopping by. I know all sitches are different, but I appreciate the input!

As I look back I see more problems in my M than I realized at the time, but it was NOT a bad M. My H is one of the good guys who did a 180. He even TOLD me he wanted to "be the bad guy" for a while because he never got to when he was younger. Sad, ya know?

Glad that you have been able to detach and get to a place that is healthy for you. I'm still trying!

[tpaschal]

So I'm still trying to figure out how to approach the counseling session.

H has the kids this weekend, and it has been a very rough one for them from what I can tell. Saw them at S9's soccer game yesterday afternoon, and H expressed his frustration with S9 not listening, not doing as he's told, etc. D5 called last night to tell me good night (I know he had to dial for her) and I could hear D14 sobbing and arguing with him in the background. H hung up without speaking after D5 said goodnight, so I called back to talk to S9 and D14. H said S9 was asleep and he wasn't going to let me speak to D14 as a punishment to her. I told him that was not an appropriate punishment, and that if he ever called I would never keep the kids from speaking to him, no matter what they had done. He finally said, "Keep it short."

<sigh>

I'm trying not to tell him what to do with the kids, as I know he sees me as trying to control him, but how do I get the message into his foggy brain that some things are not acceptable? I've been trying to tell him for months that the kids are hurting and unhappy and even depressed, but he doesn't want to see that or accept it.

He seems very, very angry right now. More angry since Temporary Orders Hearing on March 12, which is when he agreed to the counseling.

Angry at me? At OW? More likely at himself?

So, in light of that, how do I approach the counseling session on Thurs.?

[job]

T,
Your h is angry at the world and at himself. He's angry because he knows that what he's doing isn't the correct thing to do, but he doesn't and/or can't stop himself right now. He's angry because his behavior has now affect the children and he's going to have to go to counseling to try to help sort things out. He really doesn't want to do this, but he's being forced to do so. I doubt that your h is going to want to continue sessions because they don't think that there's a thing wrong w/them and the family is doing just fine. They've got their heads in the sand and don't want to admit what is happening is so totally wrong. It's called denial in the first degree. If they admitted to what is happening, they would begin to feel reality biting them on the butt and they don't want that--at least in some cases, not yet. Question--do you think he'll remember the appointment? If not, drop him a friendly reminder the day before the session and leave it at that.

At the session, since I am assuming it is the first one, follow the lead of the counselor. If he directs his questions to your h first, really listen to what he's saying, do not interject into his conversation w/the counselor unless you are asked to do so. You will get your turn and when you do, express yourself in a very calm tone of voice, try to keep it together and go from there. If your h balks and acts out of character, sit quietly until he finishes his balking and then continue to speak. Do not be baited by his outbursts or body language. What may ultimately happen is that you go to the sessions alone. Do what you must to help you and your children.

Good luck!

[sgctxok]

snodderly-

That is WONDERFUL advice.
sg

[sleeper]

Morning tpaschal,

Yes, your H is angry, probably deep in anger stage. Sorry your kids are going through this along with you.

When my W was in this stage I thought her anger was directed only at me because I could only see from my perspective. I later (months) found out it was directed at everyone she came in contact with, including OM. Try to take heart in the fact that this isn't about you, nothing you did or didn't do could have prevented or caused it. It's his problem to deal with/work through but of course it affects you and your children.

My W and I had a couple of counseling sessions early on, got nowhere. I now wish I had gone dark in beginning. I think I may have avoided some of the spew/verbal abuse. Who knows?

If H quits C (and he probably will) you might consider you and kids going without him. Focus on your kids. They need you now more than ever. This is a lot harder on them than on us. That would probably be the best use of your energies right now as you can't do anything for your H, but you can make a difference in how your kids adjust/cope with this.

You are doing well and it does get easier over time.