What have the two of you been doing the past couple of days? In what ways are your interactions together different that might have been a factor in this?
Actually, we've been dealing with some teenager issues, handling kid problems. I'm the bad cop, she's the good cop. Kid has been straightened out pretty well, we hope.
How have you been treating her? Not talking about "attitudes" here, but what are some of your specific "actions" that are different lately then they may have been before?
She habitually pushes me away when I get close. If I hug her for more than two seconds, if we kiss more than a peck, she will push me away. I frown, she rolls her eyes. Lately, I just give her shoulder a quick one-arm squeeze. I give her just a peck on the cheek. I haven't been "after her" for the past week. And I think she appreciates the extra space.
Actually, we've been dealing with some teenager issues, handling kid problems. I'm the bad cop, she's the good cop. Kid has been straightened out pretty well, we hope.
Is this any different from the way the two of you have handled teenager issues in the past? If so, have you gotten better results than before? (I know, hard telling with teenagers! Seems like that can be a moving target!) How involved have you been in with these issues in the past? What might be something that seemed to work this time?
Lately, I just give her shoulder a quick one-arm squeeze. I give her just a peck on the cheek. I haven't been "after her" for the past week. And I think she appreciates the extra space.
There might be some "persuer/distancer" dynamics happening here. The more you chase her, the faster she runs away. The "see-saw effect" of you wanting it more, so she's wanting it less. How did things go when you first met? Did she chase you, or did you chase her? When were the times in the past when she seemed to be more interested towards sex? Was it when you seemed to be less interested? When it was more of HER idea?
I'm glad you're hanging in here with us, WNC! I KNOW it seems like I might ask a lot of "stupid" questions, but you're coming up with some great, thoughtful, answers! It seems that you're really giving some deep thought to what I'm asking, and are getting closer to digging up some great solutions for yourself.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Something like ten years ago, after our youngest was born, it was suggested that I give W a sex holiday. I wouldn't ask, the subject wouldn't come up, until she was ready. I hung in there for six months, then finally I caved in and begged and pleaded for sex. She said she was amazed how long I lasted before crying "uncle". She's competitive, and thought of it as a competition I guess. So I gave up on any idea of not persuing her, since that didn't seem to work at all.
Early in our marriage, she came on to me very strong once when she was drunk. It turned me off and I told her we would wait until she was sober. She then made a big show of masturbating -- and since then, she has never come on to me like that. Sometimes I wonder if my rejection of her started the whole cycle, injured her pride and embarassed her. There's been a lot of water under the bridge since then, and it's a stretch to think it would still have much of an effect.
Again, I'm just throwing stuff out in the wind here, to see where it lands.
Something like ten years ago, after our youngest was born, it was suggested that I give W a sex holiday.
It was "suggested"? What do you mean by this? Who did the "suggesting"? Was there problems about, or with, the birth?
She's competitive, and thought of it as a competition I guess.
What other areas of your life might "competition" come into play? Careers, household responsibilities, sports, friends, knowledge, etc.?
Are there any other "winner/loser" scenes in your personal lives together?
Sometimes I wonder if my rejection of her started the whole cycle, injured her pride and embarassed her.
Probably not, if this was an isolated incident. If this is a pattern of behaviour, then maybe so.
If she was really drunk when she did this, it might not be something she's comfortable with doing, something that she may have inhibitions about. It might have been something she "experimented" with, didn't get any positive results with, so might have felt embarrassed about?
Have you ever talked to her about this experience, or just let it pass, unspoken about?
Might this be something that you'd like to have happen again, except maybe under different circumstances?
Here's really "tossing in the wind", but is sex something she might feel "dirty" about? What are times in your sex life when she might not have had any inhibitions?
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Regarding the "sex vacation", the birth went very smoothly, no problem. But sex went to zero and my frustration went way up. Our counselor decided I was being too pushy and proposed the "vacation". I had been getting angry and demanding, felt bad, and committed myself to not bring up sex again until she was ready. Well, between the baby and starting up a business, and the rest of life's ordinary challenges, it was too easy to schedule intimacy right out of the marriage. Good idea, but maybe bad timing.
My wife competes on lots of levels, I discovered early on while playing games like Monopoly and Risk. She pretty much refuses to lose. She is a fierce negotiator in all dealings. I respect that, I enjoy her women-can-do-anything approach. We clicked, I think, because I never felt threatened by her; and in fact I love her independence and confidence.
Finding a middle ground, though, is very hard with her. If she wants a BMW and I want a Honda, she'll go for the four-cylinder BMW and call that a compromise. So meeting in the middle in our sex life is nothing close to meeting my needs.
What a concept! Works great on paper, too bad it don't seem to work out that great in real life!
"I have a meeting next Tuesday at noon, but it should be over by 5:00, so if you could have the young'n take a nap between 5:30 to 5:55, we could have some intimate time together".
It was fine that your C suggested a "vacation" from sex. However, all vacations must have an end.
From what you said, it seems like the birth of your child was a major shifting point in your sexual relationship.
The good news is that this seems to be normal.
The bad news is that this seems is normal!!
Don't get too discouraged about this, I think we'll be able to dig up some possible solutions to this problem as we go along with the program here.
More random thoughts and questions here....
You say she is a fierce competitor, and negotiator, in all of her dealings. That she pretty much refuses to lose.
How do you think this effects your intimate life together? Do you think this is also a "win/lose" situation to her?
When it comes to your sex life, when do you think that she feels that she's "won", and when she's "lost"?
Do you feel like you've "lost" when she has "won", even though the sex has been there, and been good?
So meeting in the middle in our sex life is nothing close to meeting my needs.
What is her side of the middle?
Before the birth of your child, when were the times your sex life has been best? What were you doing then? How were the two of you really connecting?
After the birth of your child, when were the times your sex life has been best? What were you doing then? How were the two of you really connecting?
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
As far as meeting in the middle goes, we are already there as far as she is concerned. With our youngest child's birth, sex went from rarely to never. She made comments like sex is just for making babies, and we're done making babies.
Back in college, we lived separately but slept together and had sex almost every night. I never asked for it, she gave quite freely. That dropped off right after marriage and got worse after first kid was born.
In her mind, marriage meant she could stop with all the sex activity, it was just to keep me interested. After marriage I was committed, thus no more need to keep me from looking around. In my mind, marriage meant I get to have sex whenever I want it. So after almost 20 years we have reached an equilibrium, at least one that she is very comfortable with.
Amazon hasn't shipped my order yet, but I will be sharing the SSM book with her when it arrives. We'll see where that goes, but due to recent events I am hopeful!
It's great too see that you have hope, WNC! Good things CAN happen!
Hopefully, your book will be arriving soon. In the mean time, keep your eyes open for any small, positive things that are happening in your relationship that will help get the ball rolling.
Now is about the time to start setting some small goals for your relationship. What things do you want to start to see happen?
I know, wild sex every night, right?!
Start out smaller. Maybe things like, "she'll let me touch her shoulder without flinching", or "she'll let me kiss her cheek without backing away", etc., etc.
There's a bunch of goal-setting threads here that will give you some good examples. Throw in some of your thoughts on them here, and we'll help you work through them.
Hang in there! I think that things are looking up for you and your marriage already!!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
