Please help...need MLC advice

[tpaschal]

My question to you is this:
Who made the suggestion of counseling that your H agreed to?

Now another one:
If he did go, what do you hope for it to accomplish?

I guess I want to see where you are with this before I offer up my opinion. I do have to say that I like the sound of the psychologist that your kids are seeing. I mean, recommending DB must mean pro-marriage...and, more importantly, someone who won't just flippantly tell him that the kids will be fine. "Kids are resilient." Man, I HATE that saying!!!

I've been asking him to go for counseling since he dropped the bomb. (Pre-DB'ing.) I could tell he was depressed---not sleeping, not eating, lost a lot of weight, etc. But even though he would lie awake at night and sometimes talk to me about how he was feeling, and acknowledged on more than one occasion that he needed to talk to someone (a professional), of course he would never go.

When I told him I thought he was depressed and needed to be on medication, he got extremely angry, yelled at me and told me that I was minimizing his feelings, that a little pill wasn't going to make it all go away. I asked him what he would recommend if a patient came in with these symptoms, and he got even angrier and slammed out of the house. Hit a nerve much? I mentioned depression and medication one more time before he moved out, and he got very nasty and told me that going on an antidepressant often made people more decisive and able to act on their feelings, and did I really want him to decide to leave me when he was still feeling confused and conflicted?

After he moved out, I've mentioned marriage counseling maybe three or four times over the past 12 months. Once or twice I made smart-*ss remarks that probably didn't help---when he would whine about finances or money paid to the Lawyers, I would say, "Well, MC sure would have been a lot cheaper!"

And once or twice I've said, "I think there is still something here that's worth saving. I think it's worth a few counseling sessions to see."

Sometimes he would react negatively, sometimes he wouldn't react at all.

As for the kids counseling, several times he's said they don't need it, they'll be fine, KIDS ARE RESILIENT (ha!), they're fine when they're with him, etc. But when I would counter with why they DID need it, he agreed to pay for it. At least he did until October, when he pretty much quit paying for anything!

The kids' counselor did call him once back in March 07 to ask if he would come in to meet with her and D14, or come in by himself so that C could get an idea of what was going on from his point of view to be able to help D14. He refused.

Over the past 4-6 months I've asked him a few times to go to counseling with the kids, or for he and I to go together to learn how to co-parent the kids through all of this. He kept refusing.

At our first mediation appt. in November (which ultimately failed---nothing was agreed on) I asked for marriage counseling, he refused. I countered with asking for joint parent/child counseling sessions, or co-parenting counseling, he refused. Mediator said he told her he had tried to work on the marriage for years, had bought lots of books, and he was past that. She rolled her eyes more than once as she relayed that message!!

Our Temporary Orders hearing was set for Feb. 13, but it got rescheduled. He asked me to meet with him to see if we could figure some things out. He basically gave me the talk of how things would go much easier for me if we could just work things out on our own, but badly for me if I kept dragging it through the courts. I listened but didn't say too much. He said he knew he hadn't always done right by the kids and wanted to do better. I brought up counseling, and said I had asked him several times to go with the kids to be able to talk to them better and get through this, and he said okay.

However, nothing much came of this conversation. He didn't give me the money to be able to schedule counseling for the kids. I do think his main intent was to manipulate me, to soften me up to doing things his way.

At the rescheduled Temporary Orders on March 12, H came out in the hallway where I was sitting with my friend and asked if he could talk to me for a minute. I said okay. We talked for a little while, some agreeing and validating from me, along with a few reminders (not snarky, but calm and firm) that things weren't all as he was making them out to be.

At one point though we were bickering a little (no raised or angry voices, though, just frustrated with each other) with him telling me that if I acted adversarily it made him not want to see the kids and me saying that just sounded like an excuse to not see the kids and how sad was that, so on and so forth, and he called me by OW's name! I just looked him dead in they eye and said, "Oh, so I guess you have the same type of adversarial conversations with her." He sighed and said, "Yeah, probably so."

A few minutes later he asked if he and I could sit down with our two lawyers and work out some things before going in front of the judge. I agreed.

We all went in to a conference room together. My lawyer asked why H wanted the meeting. H said he wanted to try to work out a few things, etc. This was the first time I had ever met H's lawyer. I was very nice, calm, polite, but honest. I said that I had made it clear to H and to my Lawyer from day one that I did not want a divorce. I said we are in this situation because it is what H wants.

We talked about a lot of issues, mostly financial, and I can't remember what order things went in. H and I were talking directly to each other, and we did work together to explain some things to the lawyers about how his practice worked and how he got paid, etc.

At one point I asked about counseling. I said that the kids were very troubled and having problems dealing with everything, including S9 having problems in school. I got a little choked up when talking about the kids. I said that I had asked several times for him to go to joint counseling sessions with the kids, and he had refused. I said that I had even had to cancel the kids counseling because I couldn't afford it. I said that I thought our marriage was worth saving. I got a little teary and said I thought 21 years and three kids was worth at least one session of marriage counseling!

H's Lawyer said to me, "Oh, I agree. I've been telling him that from the beginning."

Through this part of the convo., H looked....sad? Guilty? I can't describe it. He is NOT a happy person, IMO.

He said, "That's fine. The kids can go to counseling, I'll go with them, I'll even go with you."

My L asked who would pay for it, and H said he would, at the same time as H's L said, "Oh, H will. I'll make sure of that."

Then the convo. moved on to other things.

At the end my L got angry, and he got up and walked out.

We had pretty much finished our convo., but me, H, and H's L were kind of dumbfounded. H made a snarky comment about my L, and I said, "He's upset with me. He's afraid for me. He's seen too many women give in to their H's because they still loved them and didn't want their marriages to end, and then end up getting screwed over by their H's. He doesn't want that to happen to me."

H said he wasn't trying to screw me over. I just kept it light and said kind of teasingly/jokingly, "Well, H, you haven't exactly been the most trustworthy or honorable guy this past year. You've done some dishonest things."

He defended himself and said the only thing he done that was questionable was to have a girlfriend. I just kind of snorted and said, "Yeah, that's kind of a biggie!" But again, it was said very lightly, almost teasingly. He didn't take offense.

We talked about the kids for a minute, and asked H's L how much longer this was going to take since I needed to pick up the kids from school, and I said that I might need to call MIL to pick them up.

I think seeing us interact was kind of a revelation to H's L.

As I said, it was my first time to meet her, so maybe she was expecting a b*tch on wheels? I know he's been telling his L crap about me, orchestrated by OW. (Don't ask how I know, I just do.)

For the rest of the afternoon (waiting around to be called in by the judge, talking about a few other issues, etc.) H's L made comments two or three times about kids and finances along the lines of, "If you are able to work things out, you'll still want to...." and "If you end up staying married, you'll need to....

And as we left the building at the end of the day we were going through a very narrow passageway where the security check station was. My L was leading, then me, then H's L, then H. H was far enough behind that he couldn't hear, and H's L said to me, "Good luck to you. I hope it all works out." I said, "Thanks."

Then yesterday when my L called, he said he needed to know where to go from here. I asked what he meant, and he said he thought we were going to counseling and maybe reconciling. I said no, we hadn't done that yet. He said the case was pretty much dead in the water, and needed to know what I wanted done.

So, were the L's both seeing something that I missed? Should I have jumped on the counseling thing right away? I did make an appt. for next Thursday, but did I miss my window? Why did he agree to go? Shamed into it by the lawyers? A ploy to make himself look like a good guy? A real want to be able to communicate better with the kids?

I don't know anymore.

Maybe H doesn't even know. I think H is on just as much of a rollercoaster as I am.

I called the kids' counselor and said that H had agreed to go with me, but didn't know what next step to take. Should we see her? Should we go to someone who had never met either of us? She was excited, thinking that he was ready to work on the marriage, and I said I didn't really think that was the case. I told her I'm not sure why he agreed to go. She recommended a couples therapist in her practice, and said that they often work together---he sees the parents, she sees the kids and sometimes the kids and parents jointly. She said she thinks we need to meet with him together so he can get an idea of what we're both wanting to get out of counseling.

So, that's where I am. Sorry for the length.