Back on the Roller Coaster - OW still around

[micoms]

FA,

Happy Easter, hope you have a good day with your D. Did you hide the eggs well?

Mike

[fooled again]

Mike,

Happy Easter to you too. I was pretty easy on the kid (she is only 7), but over the years I've been building up the challenge. I'm glad she still believes for now. She's also been leaving treats for the fairies and notes - you have no idea how hard it is to write in small fairy writing. I don't want her to ever grow up! Take care.

FA

[micoms]

FA,

GS spent the night with Papaw Sat, I had a great time except he slept in my bed and kicked, hit, laid on me and crowded me off the bed, but I loved every minute of it. The dog chased him then he chased the dog, I was LMAO. Went to D24's house for easter dinner. W was there but left to go to her sisters later, gave her a kiss on the cheek as she left, my hands were full with something, can't remember. Had a good tome. W thinks I'm dating, LOL. I don't know, but I'm kind of thinking about it, she's not interested in working on things, maybe I should "accidentally" run into her friend while on a date. Don't want to put someone in the middle of it though.

Glad you had a good Easter

Mike

[fooled again]

Hi Mike,

It took me a minute to figure out "LMAO", but then the lightbulb went on (duh) and I LOL!! Sounds like you had a ball w/ GS! My D7 still comes to sleep in my bed when she has a bad dream or gets cold - she doesn't kick me anymore but "climbs" me (not sure what that's about).

Easter was actually kind of strange to be honest. The morning was great fun w/ D, Egg hunting, breakfast, then off to the big park for a hokey but cute Easter festival where D was dancing. Then we took part in the festival, played games, etc. H was out of town on business all w/e but said he'd be back early Sun am to see D dance. He didn't show, didn't call, didn't answer our calls until we got back home around 1:30 pm. Claimed he just landed & wanted to come over. Said he did tell me that he would be coming over for Easter, but he slept in & missed his flight. It sucks to say this, but I didn't believe him, though I didn't tell him that (he probably knew anyway). I got into an R talk on the phone while he was supposedly in the airport parking lot. But I told him I did want him to come over. He came for dinner & stayed overnight. Monday is a holiday for most of us here, so we all went to the science center together & had a great day, then went out for supper. Then D went to stay at his place since she is off all week from school & H is able to spend the time w/ her.

Tonight he asked me to come to the movies w/ him & D, so they came over for leftovers first. It was a funny movie and we had a really fun night. Then on the way to dropping me off, H asks me what I'm doing after work tomorrow - yesterday he had suggested we all go to his hockey game, plus Weds is D's dance class that we usually both go to. Also yesterday H had also asked me to have lunch tomorrow w/ him, D, BIL & SIL (who are visiting from out of town & I believe know about our sitch). To top it off, we have plans to go out on Sat night & are trying out a new babysitter.

So... this is kind of hard to figure out. First H goes AWOL for about 48 hrs, "missed" his flight, but then he spends the next several days asking me to do things w/ him. Of course you know me, the glass is half empty, right? But I don't want to overthink what's going on here and assume this is him coming closer and closer (you've got the luxury of an objective viewpoint here, but I also sense that you're a "glass is half full" kind of guy). I'm still quite suspicious, wondering if there is some input somewhere from OW, if she's hovering around, calling or texting and generally interfering somehow. I have no way of knowing for sure w/out snooping. But I do keep thinking about what you've said about asking him to come home, like he's waiting for that. So, despite the R talk on our phone call on Sunday and his wanting to see me just about every day, I'm still acting pretty detached, as though nothing is really bothering me.

And I actually do FEEL fairly detached. My thinking is sortof like this: our sitch could go either way, and I know that no matter which way it goes, there will be a lot of work and there will be alot of pain and there will be many regrets and lots of stuff will come up to the surface, but either way there will also be a real opportunity for growth for me. On the one hand, I would love for H to come back to me, to rebuild our R into something fabulous. I do love him, he is my best friend and he knows me better than anyone, we have had many wonderful years together, we have many great memories, we have history, connection, we grew up together. These are all the great things about H coming back to me. On the other hand, the thought of starting a new life is kind of exciting. I never really dated as an adult, and there are a lot of interesting men out there. I wouldn't trade my H for any one of them, but then again, if this doesn't work, if H doesn't want to come home & recommit fully to our M, I will dust myself off and get back on the horse, well I guess it would be a new horse (or several new horses, if you know what I mean!!). And I guess that's the thing that makes it easier to detach, knowing that either way, I have the rest of my life to live, and I intend to LIVE!!!!

Funny about your W thinking you are dating. I suspect that my H feels that I'm on the cusp of dating, & maybe that's what's making him more anxious to spend time w/ me. I've been telling H about the dogs we meet at the dog park, but not much about the people. D told him that the owner of one dog I'd been talking about is a fire fighter! I'm sure that set off a couple of alarm bells. I work for a d/t law firm, & just recently changed firms - a big pool of successful men. Plus there's the gym I go to, which is pretty much one of the best, hip co-ed gyms d/t, so lots of men there too.

I suppose the trick is to continue to act somewhat detached while still showing H that I'm interested in him and enjoy his company, laughing, smiling, joking, looking amazing all the time, and allowing him to glimpse little reminders that the ocean that I'm swimming in is full of fish. Not such a bad strategy, I think.

Okay, I'm getting a cold so I'm off to bed. Hope you have a good week. How have you been feeling (physically), BTW, since you've stopped physio?

FA

[micoms]

FA,

If H is still seeing OW it is less and less, he seems to be spending more and more time with you and D. He does seem to be moving closer to you. It seems the more we detach the more the S moves towards us.

I know how you feel about dating, I think I might be wanting to also. I go back and forth on it, one day it seems exciting the next it's depressing because of leaving our M behind. I'd rather start dating my W and working on starting a new M, but as of now she isn't interested. The run in with my old friend, I guess has made me realize that I'm still desirable and attractive. Something my W hasn't made me feel in a few years.

Talked to D19 tonight, she said W has asked her about me dating, she tells her she doesn't know. I just tell her I'm meeting a friend. W did say that she thought I put a GPS unit on her car to follow her, she took the car someplace to have them look for a unit on it, is that paranoid or what? I'm detached to the point now I don't care where or what she does. I'm going to start calling her more often, three times a week, and find an excuse to go to D24's house at least once more.

One thing W got serious about and asked was why the boys won't have anything to do with her, are they mad at her for wanting a D? I told her that they are as all the kids don't want us to D. But they have given up calling you. In conversations with both S's at different times, they said they've called her numerous times and you never returned their calls. I reminded her that I told her of this twice, that she needs to call them. She said something about caller ID not working on her phone, but it works when I call her. I think this might be further evidence of MLC and told her. Don't know if she still will deny, but I told her I have seen her go through the stages of a MLC. Her not contacting S's was part of her withdrawal.

I'm feeling fine since I graduated from cardiac rehab, now I'm doing rehab on my shoulder. It's still sore but not as bad. I start refereeing next weekend, it's called the MASC Tournament. next weekend is boys the following is the girls. They draw about 450 teams each weekend.

I'm going to do boys u-14 gold (top) division. I think I'll be in the best shape to start the season than I've ever been in.

Mike

[fooled again]

Mike,

I'm glad to hear that you'll be ref-ing again soon - I know that being involved in my D's activities and getting to know the other parents has helped w/ my own GALing. D's dancing is really the first "organized" activity she's done, and there's a big learning curve for me (it's also pretty expensive, but now that H is back at work, he will help with that).

I too flip back and forth on the dating thing. I'm not anywhere near ready for that, just thinking about it in the abstract - I tend to do that to prepare myself for things that may happen, even if I don't really expect them to. I had to tell one guy (quite a bit younger than me - what's that about?) that no, I was not going to give him my number, but I was very nice about it (flattered, really). It's nice to know I'm still a marketable commodity (LOL).

It sounds like your W is spending an awful lot of time thinking about you, what you are doing or not doing, and whether or not you are thinking of/spying on her. She appears very concerned about what others are thinking of her - this is a good sign that she is slowly waking up. You being mysterious is working - she's definitely wondering what you're up to. When I do that, it seems to make my H more depressed, so I tend to tell him what I'm doing. He already told me he's afraid someone will come along and take me away from him. But my sitch is different from yours in that my H is not pushing for a D. Plus my understanding is that men & women experience MLC and depression differently. I know for me, prior to discovering the A, I had been thinking of WA, I didn't feel loved anymore. As soon as I discovered the A, I realized how much I still loved my H. If she thinks you are dating and she is losing you, she may wake up real fast.

I went out for dinner w/ H, D, BIL, SIL & N. It was a fun night, but driving back to the house, H was very quiet & sombre looking. I was trying to figure out why: it could have been b/c I paid for dinner (H hasn't gotten his first pay yet); it could have been b/c I wasn't making any pretenses that we were living together (I know that BIL has been informed of our sitch by MIL); it could have been that H was concerned about BIL's opinion of him. Or it could have been a combination of all of those things rolled together. I didn't ask, I didn't acknowledge his mood, I just joked around w/ D and laughed and "acted as if" I didn't notice.

H and I have a date on Sat, then he is away on business all next week. I'm not sure what we will do on Sat, but I'm thinking of trying to talk a bit to him about his feelings and about R. I'm not quite sure what to say, how to start, but I'd like to leave him w/ something to think about while he is away. I want to somehow tell him that I think things have been going really well, and I feel that I'm ready to start talking about our future in a more concrete way. The coach I'd been talking to suggested presenting it as a loose ultimatum, something like by the end of this year, if he can't commit to our M, I need to start moving on w/ my life (if that's what I want to say). She was in a very similar sitch, and she said that at first her H was pissed off by the ultimatum, but after thinking about it, he decided that he didn't want to lose her, and later told her that it was the best thing she could have done.

Now that I see H moving closer, it may be time to start discussing our future, despite the fact that I denied having a deadline. I don't want to push him away, but I honestly have no intention of living this way for another year. By then it will have been 4 years of his MLC and if he hasn't figured it out by then, he may never figure it out.

FA

[micoms]

FA,


It sounds like your W is spending an awful lot of time thinking about you, what you are doing or not doing, and whether or not you are thinking of/spying on her. She appears very concerned about what others are thinking of her - this is a good sign that she is slowly waking up. You being mysterious is working - she's definitely wondering what you're up to.

Did your H go through this also? I asked W if she would be my date for a friends son's upcoming wedding, she said she's spending the night at N's house I know N and her H, we're friends, but she would sit and dance with me. I told her that she asked me why I want to take her out to dinner a while back, I said to see you so you can see the changes I'm undergoing. I was making some good changed before surgery, but have been battling depression off and on since(even though I'm on some AD's) surgery. I went from being a normal healthy guy to basically an invalid, who had to have someone take care of him. My health is great now but still I feel it every once and a while.

She did ask why I don't bring the woman I'm dating, told her she is just a friend who is going through the same thing as Me, a D she doesn't want (I'm not seeing anyone). She said bring her she won't be jealous. Even if I was seeing someone a friends son's wedding would be the last place for that. That night is about the bride and groom, not our drama. But maybe my W needs to see me with another woman on my arm to bring out her feelings.

The friend I met for drinks has been calling me almost every day. She is going through M problems also. Her H left her, came back and wants to work on M, now she has left him (before we met up). LBS becomes the WAS. I told her about DB and she has asked me some questions about it. She only opened up about this yesterday.

She has made me feel attractive and wanted again, has lifted my spirits some. She lives 8 hours away in another state. I would like to convince her to read DB or DR and give her M a try. Although it would be interesting to see her although it would be a long distance R.

If you decide to date maybe we could "go out". we could go to different restaurants at the same time together, just on opposite side or the continent, LMAO. I might even order your favorite wine and set it on the other side of the table, ROFL!! I'm hoping the best for you and H, I think the two of you are close. When H moves back in, that's when the hard work will start. Trying to get closer to each other and leaving the bad feelings and memories behind, but you can do it.

Wish you the best,

Mike

[fooled again]

Mike,

What's strange about my H is that he never wanted to let go of me, always tried to tell me he wanted to come home & was working on M. Each time I found out he was still seeing OW, he would tell me he's sorry, tell me it's really over this time, tell me he didn't want her, he wanted me, ask me to give him another chance. He even came over once in the summer (shortly after Aug '07 bomb) wearing his wedding band! I hadn't seen the thing in well over a year at that point. After each discovery, H pursued me until I started to believe in him again, then BOOM, I found out again. This happened four times. I guess that was the MLC confusion/craziness in full bloom. In Dec '07 (two mos after Oct '07 bomb) H started acting suspicious again - I started going nutty again and that's when I realized that I needed to detach in a big way. It took me until Jan '08, and it took reading about MLC to truly get my mind around the detaching thing, even though I'd been trying since about Mar '07 when he moved out.

But all along H has always spent a lot of time wondering what I was doing, who I was with, asking me questions, sometimes not calling me for days, other times acting paranoid if he couldn't reach me by phone at lunchtime (I often work out on my lunch; H knows that). I don't think he ever had his car checked for tracking devices, though (LOL).

Funny, you never mentioned you had been talking to your old friend. Are you sure you aren't risking EA? I think about that myself sometimes, so I never talk about my sitch w/ another man - I don't want to be vulnerable w/ another man unless or until I know it's over w/ my H, either for me or for him. It's too much of a slippery slope & I don't know that I would be strong enough to keep myself from sliding down into an EA or PA. But I'm not preaching to you - your W wants a D. I just recall you saying once that you didn't want to drag anyone else into your sitch and hurt them.

If you really do want your W back, don't you think you need to stay focused on her needs and your needs, and not be distracted by your friend's needs. I'm saying this in the nicest possible way b/c I know what it feels like to be rejected and lonely and missing your S. I don't cry at night anymore, but my KS bed still feels much, much too big and empty.

I know the hard work will start if/when my H moves back. And some of those bad feelings and memories are already starting to resurface for me. Maybe that's why I'm so anxious for it to be resolved, for him to decide, so that I can work on getting rid of those bad feelings one way or another and move forward. I've got a Pandora's Box of them, I'm beginning to realize! And maybe that's helping me detach and gather the strength I need to be able to tell H to figure it out b/c I want to get on w/ my life w/ or w/out him. As I mentioned, I feel that the time is nearing for that conversation, and I don't want to waffle. Call it a modified LRT, if you will, but maybe that's what my H needs to finally get his head out of his a$$.

Today I had lunch w/ someone I used to work with - a very nice man that I could only ever be friends w/ (kindof a big brother I never had). It was fun, we laughed and joked & it was all very innocent. I suppose there's always that chance that he may feel something more, but I would never acknowledge that and would hate to think that is true. I have always had trouble making friends & letting people get close to me (maybe I just never trusted them enough) but now I want to allow myself to be friends w/ people that I get along w/, be they men or women. Today I kept thinking that if my H knew about my lunch date, he would immediately come to the conclusion that there was more to it than just friendship. So I'd like to ask you honestly, can a man be friends w/ an attractive woman w/out thinking about sex or a potential R? I guess I'm just trying to keep myself out of potential entanglements while still trying to save my M (as I mentioned, I am very sensitive to attention).

Or maybe this is not a gender specific phenomenon - maybe all men and all women are constantly at some level (perhaps subconsciously) window shopping and when our primary R is not meeting our needs, that's when we are at risk for an A. I remember reading on another site, Marriage Builders I think, that you should never trust your S and stop working on your M or R, taking it for granted, assuming that nothing would cause your S to stray. It was a bit of an eye opener for me.

By the way, my current favorite wine is Liberty School Cab - it goes really well w/ steak (can you eat those yet?) Today at lunch I had a lovely seared Tuna salad w/ a fennel crust. I'm thinking about food again - have you had your pizza nite yet? You said you had fixed the ceiling, so what are you waiting for? Might be a great time to invite W over so she can spend time w/ your S's!!

You must hate my posts - they're so damn long! But I am very verbal and my D is exactly the same. You have no idea what a HUGE HUGE HUGE 180 it is for me NOT to talk to H about R!! I'm really proud of myself, but I often feel like a pressure cooker about to explode! That's what my thread is for - and I don't mind if no one reads it, but I am grateful at least one person does.

FA

[micoms]

FA,

I had been posting on my thread that i was at work(I work on elevators) that I ran into an old friend at a hotel where we take care of the elevators. We agreed to meet at her hotel that night to have a couple of drinks, well we talked and had more than a few drinks. She had too many drinks and I had to help her up to her room. She wanted me to stay and wanted me to ML with her. I told her it was the alcohol talking, she pulled me down on the bed with her. I left without anything happening. She called me the next day and didn't remember what happened. I told her nothing happened, that she wanted something to, but I didn't want to, maybe sometime when drinks weren't involved. She was embarrassed that she couldn't remember anything. Well she has called me almost every night and I'll admit I called her a couple of times also. We were friends/neighbors after high school, we lived with our parents at the time, even hung out a few times. That was about thirty years ago. She opened up and told me of her problems in her M. Her H left and came back, now she is the LBS who is now the WAS. I would like to help her to regain her M, told her about DB,DR. SHe asked questions about the books and what they said.

She lives in N Carolina now over 8 hours from me and travels for business. It is tempting to think she might be interested in me, but I would rather see her M work out and know I had some help in it than to try long distance R. She has a D who is expecting her first baby, friends first GC. The attention she has given me the last week and a half, has me thinking that I'm an attractive person and desirable. My W hasn't made me feel that way in a number of years, ML was a once out of 12 times.

As far as your question about can a man be friends with a woman. I think a guy can be just a friend but he also wonders if there could be more. I seem to have those feelings about my friend. I would rather see her work on her M and restore it, but also think what could become of us, if it weren't to work out between them.

I'm not your typical cardiac patient, my problem was family history. They told me to try to stick to the cardiac diet but didn't have to do it strictly. My D19 took me out to dinner the other night to a steak house for a good one soon. I have soccer games the next two weekends , tournaments, after that we will do it. I'm refereeing gold (top division) for a tournament called the MASC. It draws 450 teams each weekend, one for girls and another for the boys. It is a gold level tournament (draws college scouts). The club D19 used to play for puts it on. Her team was ranked 2 in the region and 15 in the nation. Miss those days of traveling to tournaments and talking to parents of other teams from around the country. Every tournament we went to we played teams from all over. We traveled to St Louis, Richmond,Va, new jersey, Florida , Chicago, Maryland, Cleveland, Indy, and other cities for games. That was on top of going to Cleveland for her modeling And to LA for her Talent agency.

I know what you mean about long posts, I see others that put in one line, I don't know how they do it, must spend all night , like the kids who text message all night to say what could have been said in a 5 minute phone call.

I have decided to do Pizza night in about three weeks after tournaments. Earn a little money to pay for the ingredients, LOL.

Well have a good weekend with D.

Mike

[fooled again]

Mike,

I guess I lost track of your thread somehow - just found it again and now but it looks like it locked up again! You did tell me about meeting up w/ your old friend and her drinking too much and wanting you, but not about her calling you and you calling her since then. I can totally relate to that feeling of being appreciated by someone else when your S doesn't. I didn't mean to be so preachy about seeing other people - I guess I'm just projecting! I've just read soooo many warnings about dating while you are DBing. I fear for myself that I wouldn't be able to draw the line if I was feeling so lonely. In fact, there are days when I'm confused at H's actions or withdrawl and convince myself I'd be better off just starting a new life, finding someone else. But of course, this would not work unless and until I know I'm done w/ my H and my M. Of course, flirting is usually harmless and is really good for the PMA! I'll keep what you said about men & women being friends in the back of my mind - thanks for your insight.

I was also reading on your thread about your coach telling you to drop the rope. Oh how I love that analogy - do you know where I first read it? It was on 40/60.org and it was someone posting on detaching. She compared it to waterskiing, that when it's not going well, you can either be dragged along, swallowing water and getting beaten up, or you can "drop the rope".

It does sound like you are dropping the rope, which no matter how sad that makes us, is better than the alternative. Who knows what the future will bring. One poster here has a quote from Helen Keller about one door closing and another opening, be we look so long at the door that closed that we don't see the one that has opened. I think about that all the time. I guess you are just starting to look around and are finally able to see the doors that are opening around you. Your W may also end up being an open door one day too.

My H is away this week, though we did have a great date on Sat night. I was thinking about talking to him about the future, but we had so much fun and were talking about so many other things, I never brought it up. It was quite a bit like a real date. After dinner we went to a club down the street to see a live band, and at one point H went to get another drink. While he was at the bar, a guy came up to me and started chatting with me. I worked into the conversatin that I was with someone, but he kept talking to me, and even talked to H when he came back w/ his drink. It was good for H to see that. Later we went home and he stayed the night.

H has been staying w/ his parents while out of town on business, & has called every day at least once to talk to D, often again later to talk to me. He sent me a text April Fool's prank - a nice sign of the old H, as he never missed an April Fool's prank to me until his MLC (it was a good one too - he really did fool me). He also saw two of his brothers last night. So lots of reconnecting going on there. When I talked to him last night he sounded a bit subdued, but he was likely tired as it was late. I was also thinking that he was probably thinking alot about "things" - I would imagine reconnecting does that to the MLCer, maybe bringing up some depression, regret, sadness, guilt over what they have done. I was fairly upbeat (even though I'm sick & was pretty tired) and I thanked him for calling.

I just hope that the way I'm interpreting all of these little steps is accurate, and they will bring him out of the tunnel and closer to me. No matter how intriguing it is to consider dating and meeting some fabulous new person who will sweep me off my feet, what I really want is for my H to come back and sweep me off my feet. I too let go of the rope when I need to and wait for the times that I can get back up on my skis.

It's good to know that you can enjoy "real" food too, and I have always understood that exercise is a real boon to being able to do just that. I have to get back into running (as soon as my cold is done) as I have signed up for my races and the first one is in four weeks - EEEEK!!! It's just for fun though, and part of my GALing so I'm not going to put too much pressure on myself.

Now if it would just warm up a bit!!

FA