OT Thanks as always for the excellent advice and especially the excellent way of saying it. I feel like I've/we've come such a long way but I realize I still have such a long way to go on the open communication thing (especially when I see something like what you posted which makes me smack my forehead and go "well duh, of course that's what I should say" ). Thanks.
L2 Thanks! Yes, this really does feel like so much more than those scraps I was looking for and clinging to for a long time. Now to keep moving forward and not get (too) comfortable..
jak I'm sure OT won't mind if you borrow the advice for your sitch too.
Michelle Thanks! Things seem to be looking up for you, too - very glad to see that. I'm doing the un-fun "catch up" tasks today, but it feels great to be getting some of it done. And I figure that will allow me to enjoy the REST of the long weekend.
I'll check out the upcoming track schedule and email it to ya.
Trixi Thanks!
What I'm not expressing.. basically anything and everything "scary." If it's good, positive, hopeful, I express it. Absolutely nothing either past or present about any of my fears, hurt, anger, pain, or even needs, really. He is guessing at lots of my needs and doing a pretty good job of it (i.e. the always knowing where he is and who with), but that's not fair to either of us. We both need to be able to share those kinds of things - especially the "needs" and not expecting mindreading from each other - which is where a lot of this all started!
The one recent time he did tell me, very calmly, about a totally reasonable need that he has, I dramatically overreacted - crying, shaking, just very upset. I half recovered by thanking him and saying it was way better to tell me than NOT tell me - but I fully realize that it's very likely he's now thinking "WTF, I'm not telling her anything like that again if she's going to flip out."
He said in a nutshell "I want to tell you something without making you upset. It makes my brain hurt when you give me too much information about things." (and gave me an example from earlier in the evening). What I heard/felt was closer to "I don't want you talking to me, you drive me nuts, I don't want to hear anything you have to say, I'm leaving if you don't get this right." I KNOW that is not right or even accurate, and I know it's fear that's causing it.
So what I SHOULD have done, I think, was thank him for telling me. Preferably without getting upset since it was a totally reasonable thing to ask for - but since it DID bring up a bunch of emotion for me and I DID get upset, I should have shared right then what was causing it. "Thank you for telling me that and for the example. I kind of understand but I'm not sure exactly what you mean, so please let me know if you notice me doing it so I can understand better and work on it. I know I'm over-reaccting right now. It's not about what you're asking me to do. I'm upset because I'm scared..." If I expressed that fear to him it would have made a helluva lot more sense and been far better for repairing our M than the way I reacted.
Just an example, the most dramatic one from recently. I'm working on it but dang it's tough, it seems like it should be so easy.
ST Yes, funny enough I remember all this happening last year when H came back and I got more comfortable that he was planning to stay. So I agree it's probably very normal - I also think I need to handle it a LOT differently this time, by opening up and trying to build that intimacy instead of panicking and building/reinforcing a wall of my own. Based on how he approached me with what he needed I think he is really looking for that right now, too.
I agree, I don't want to totally unload on him. There's a LOT over the past couple of years that's not even worth talking about because I've let it go. But what's left is very obviously affecting things now. I'd actually say the true emotion underlying this all is fear, not anger. But it's coming out as anger, for sure - and it really isn't fair. It is MY issue that I am afraid to talk about the "tough stuff" - which turns into anger towards him that I "can't talk to him." (I know, this isn't correct, as I said it's my issue but I find myself "blaming" him unfairly for it).
Ranting and raving about everything wouldn't do any good and I don't think it would make me feel better. I think that opening up and talking more about those kinds of things will absolutely make me feel better, though - and probably him, too. I think the anger will lessen very quickly when I express things more and ultimately feel safe about expressing things (and when he can do the same). I hope that makes sense. I realize we're just barely testing the waters on "reconnecting" right now, it's not going to happen overnight. It's also not going to happen if I hang on to the fear and keep everything inside, though - because I'll continue to be overreact, let resentment build, won't express what I need, and I'll make it difficult for H to approach me with his needs too.
Wow I am rambly again today!
Thanks again all. Forcing myself back over to Turbo Tax now...
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
ewe, Turbo Tax. I'm not even going to go there with our taxes this year, they are WAY out of my league this time. finally giving in to paying someone else to do it!
Nik, it sounds like you have a good plan for yourself.
you know, this might be a way to start the convo... "H I want to apologize for my recent snippy/anger/(whatever you call it) behavior, I don't mean to take this feelings out on you. And I've realized that these feelings have been because I've been afraid to share some of my true feelings with you." etc etc etc.
definitely let us know how that goes if you decide to have that talk! And you made a GREAT point about your H doing the same thing with you. If he wasn't looking at your R in a future standpoint, then he wouldn't be telling you things that he has concerns with you about. So that is a huge step for him. I'd almost tell him that his comment has really made you think and learn that those are things you need to do too. Like you said, you guys can't mindread each other.
it's all about fear. We're afraid of hurting the other person's feelings if we share our true thoughts, we're afraid that they're going to get all upset and defensive at us, or we're afraid they might just give up on us. just like you mentioned.
hey, only if you want to share, but I'd like to know what the "tough stuff" your referring to. If you don't mind.
hope you get your taxes done quickly and accurately!
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
Well, sure, there is plenty of fear. And once you feel secure and the fear is gone, guess what, there will STILL be plenty of anger.
No one deserves to be treated the way you were treated. If your M lasts, you will both come to a place where you can openly acknowledge that and deal with your anger and his remorse.
You can't repair the M in a way that doesn't include your healing and him dealing with the fallout of his behavior. If you try to, the M will stall and probably eventually fail.
The biggest reason people have anger is due to their ability or inability to forgive. We must forgive in order to heal ourselves of the bitterness and anger. Of course, discussing our concerns with the WAS can help with our ability to forgive. Sometimes it is a hard thing to do. When we are hurt very badly, we have this desire to hold that hurt in and even want to reciprocate that hurt, but obviously that is the wrong path to take. Knowing that we have also hurt them as well, and knowing that NO ONE is perfect, and that we chose to love an imperfect person: that means we love them even in their mistakes that cause us pain. It all takes work, but all of us can get where we want and need to be.
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
ST, I still have a really hard time understanding this concept of forgiveness, at least in the context of on-going infidelity. Do you forgive in advance all of the sins that are yet to be committed? Heck, I don't even think it is my job to forgive my W. After more than a year in this sitch, I see that the sins are not against me, but rather against her own word.
I am not angry with my W, I treat her with respect, esp. in front of the kids, and demand that they respect her as well. HOWEVER, I do not trust her, don't like who she has become, and definitely do not want to be with this person for the rest of my life. I guess at least for me, forgiveness did not even seem to be part of the equation.
Love to hear your take on it. (You can respond on my thread if you like and end my hijack!)
SD
Me 41 W 41 Kids: S9 S7 Married 16 years Bomb dropped 2/2/07 Still living together! current thread
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
). Thanks.