Back on the Roller Coaster - OW still around

[micoms]

FA,

Ohio does get cold, we had a day when it was O, but it was back into the 40's a couple of days later.

As far as the time line for H to come home, I think him hearing you say you want him to come home will be music to his ears. Our S's look at the mess they have created and wonder if they could forgive us if we had done the same. I wouldn't give H the time frame to come home as an ultimatum, but as a structured goal.

I continue to see the MC W & I were seeing, MC thinks something traumatic happened to my W in her childhood or adolescence.

I can't stop the D, in Ohio if one party wants a D, there's a D. She doesn't have to prove anything just want out. She has plans to go after a married co-worker after we D. She told this to my Aunt/big sister and others just not to me. I just have a feeling that we will be D'd before any reconciliation. W is going to go without health ins she said for two years, until her car is paid off. Gave her the option of legal separation, she could stay on my health plan. It's very good, bills for my heart surgery totaled 200k, my cost 300 deductible.

Finished cardiac rehab tonight, they want me to continue in phase three, it's $14 per week. Soccer seasons starting, I won't have time for rehab, I'll get my exercise on the field. You get between a mile and a mile and a half in one game. I usually do 2 or 3 games during the week and three on Sat and three on Sun unless it's a tournament, then I'll ref 6 to 9 games a day. I'll be in the best shape to start the season than I've ever been.

Mike

[fooled again]

Hi Mike,

You may be right about my H hearing me say I want him to come home, but then I've said it so many times, it makes me think that it may be just "more of the same". I'm quite sure that he's looking at the mess and not just wondering if he could forgive me if our roles were reversed, but wondering if he can ever undo the damage. I do know that right he is working on settling into his new job and rebuilding that part of his life. Maybe the rest of it is just too much to swallow at this point and asking him to come home would just make him feel panicky & overwhelmed. One chunk at a time, one success may breed another, and another, until he has his life back on track.

My thinking is that at some point in the next few months (and I'll have to judge when the time is right for this) I am going to sit down with him and tell him that I love him and more than anything I want us to be together as a H and W and a family, and I want to work with him on a plan to get us there, figure this out together. I will also tell him that what I don't want and am unwilling to do is live like this for years and years, that at some point if he cannot commit to our M and move back home, I need to move on w/ my life.

I guess I've gotten to the point where I'm seeing that life is too short to wait and wait for something that may never happen. I'm still pretty young (okay, you can stop laughing now) and still attractive. I deserve to be loved, I deserve to be happy. This w/end while touring the pubs w/ my D's dance school, I got alot of attention from several men. Now I'm not so superficial as to think I can find everlasting love & happiness w/ someone I meet in a pub, but it illuminated the fact that I do have alot going for me, and for me to spend my days & nights bemoaning the fact that my H doesn't want to come home is simply a waste of time & energy. I could be out meeting people & having some good clean fun. So I'm going to ask H to let me know, one way or the other, what he wants, despite the fact that he may or may not be in MLC. I'm no longer willing to to pretend, wish, hope for something that isn't going to happen - I'm tired of that, exhausted really. This may not be DBing, or perhaps it is, b/c I'd be doing this for me, not as a tool to get him back or to make him afraid to lose me, but to actually GAL in the truest sense.

I'm happy to hear your rehab is done and you're ready to start coaching again. Sounds like this may be a very good year for your health & fitness, and it'll only get better. When our bodies are strong & healthy, it is so much easier to deal w/ the emotional & intellectual stress that we have to deal w/ in our M's. Good for you for taking such good care of your body (hope you're taking care of your soul just as well).

Your W sounds like she wants to sever all ties w/ you, no matter how much financial sense it would otherwise make to opt for S instead of D. If you believe she wants to pursue the M man at work, she still has alot to go through in her "Replay" before she is done & ready to look at things w/ a clear mind. It's so damn frustrating, I know having been through this OP crap for far, far too long. I guess that's the one thing that I hope has been worked through (and the one thing I cannot deal w/ anymore). The rest of it, their personal battle w/ their demons, I can deal with, I can wait out, for a while anyway.

I did read something about men in MLC at this point needing that push to make a decision when they are in this kind of sitch, to get them off the fence, to take action instead of maintaining the status quo. Maybe I just needed to get to a strong enough place where I can say what I have to say and stand behind my words, knowing that if I say I'm done, I will truly be able to move ahead & H will know that there is no turning back after he lets things go too far. There is someone on these boards, BeingMe, who had worked through her H's A, reconciled and still posts in "Piecing". She offered me a glimpse of what it would be like to reconcile w/ my H w/out having resolved our issues, and to be honest, I don't believe that I would want to be in her place - that's just not good enough. She even mentioned in one of her posts that she could end up a WAW, the way she had been feeling. No, that to me is not where I want to end up after all this. Maybe I'm still a little girl at heart, but I do believe in happily ever after, and I want to find that somehow b/c I deserve it. So do you. So do we all.

FA

[micoms]

FA,

You could reassure H next time there is R talk that you want to start new, from this point forward that the past is gone. I like your idea to work with H to develop a plan to work together.

I've hoped we wouldn't get to the D before she'd want to work on getting back together. In her MLC mind she thinks that since she D's me her married OM will leave his W. He won't, he'll just use her. I've read where the WAS comes back and the LBS walks away.

W is coming to house tomorrow to go over what she wants from the house. So far all she wants is her knick knacks and the love seat. Sounds like she wants a clean getaway.

Mike

[fooled again]

Mike,

It does sound like she wants a clean getaway, but then again, there is no way to know what is really going on in her head. She's really confused and maybe thinks this is the only way to rid herself of her demons. She doesn't realize that they will follow her wherever she goes until she deals w/ them. You need to be really strong and I guess you need to decide if you are going to keep the door to your R unlocked even though she has chosen to close it.

I feel as though something inside of me has clicked this past w/end. Maybe it's just a small phase, but I don't have that same urgency to get my H to move back home. My logical mind tells me that to have him back is the best thing for all of us, that it is worth it. But there is another part of me all of a sudden that is saying, is all this work, effort, pain, worth it? Will you really be happy in the end? Maybe I just need to have more time to work on me, to figure out who I am and what I want. Maybe I'm not quite ready for him to come home. It's a strange feeling and I don't quite know what to make of it, so I find it interesting that you mention that you read about WAS coming back and the LBS walking away. My has started traveling for work and will be doing quite a bit of it in the next few weeks. I guess that'll give me some time to think.

FA

[micoms]

FA,

W came to the house to work on the list of what she wants, it's not a big one. I probably went against DB but I apologized for not being the husband she needed. I explained that I now see what I should have been. We talked for a couple of hours, in fact she just left. I told her I don't want our M back, just a chance to start anew. She asked me why I wanted to take her to dinner I explained that seeing her she could see my changes.

I met an old friend by chance at a hotel where we take care of the elevators while I was working Wed. She was in town for business. She invited me to come back after work and have a couple of drinks with her in the lounge. Talked about our lives and kids. She's going through a D also, she ended up getting plastered on wine. I had to help her up to her room. While in the room she tried to put the move on me. It was tempting but with alcohol involved I told her maybe next time. It sure was tempting, but I'm glad nothing happened. I got an E-mail from her today apologizing and thanking me for turning her down.

I understand about no urgency about S moving back home. I told my W if she decided to come back it would be six months before she would move back, the rest of the time would be working on getting the feelings back again. She stayed here for about 4 hours. It seemed she didn't want to leave. She told me of some things that pushed her away, I remembered to try and validate. Agreed with her on most of her points. Tried hard to not defend myself just listen.

Mike

[fooled again]

Mike,

I don't know, I think you did very well. I think alot of us have a pretty strict idea of what DBing is, but I also think that most of us don't truly get it. It's more about NOT doing the same things that didn't work in the past, it's about trying something new, it's about seeing things differently, it's about taking care of ourselves and nurturing our own growth so that we don't expect our SO to "complete" us (as if we are not enough on our own) but instead "compliment" us, to add to our lives not "be" the center of our lives.

It sounded to me like you were able to talk w/ your W and it sounded like she was listening. Who knows what will come from tonight.

And good for you for resisting the temptation of your old friend coming on to you, both for her sake and for your own. It's not a decision many people in your shoes would have had an easy time making. If you feel good about your choice, then it was the right choice. If and when your D becomes final and your W decides that she will never come back, there will be time for other women, and by the stats, there are alot of them out there!

So I guess temptation is out there all around us LBS's, and we have to decide what to do with it. I am someone who thrives on attention, validation, compliments (I can't remember which love language it is), but when an attractive, charming, funny man finds me attractive and has the guts to let me know, I find that difficult to resist. And so I find myself thinking about someone who had done just that. No, it's not love, not even close, but oh how wonderful it was for someone to tell me that I'm beautiful, right in the middle of me saying something to them (not having any idea there is anything wrong w/ my M - I think). Then my H comes back from a trip and spends the night leaving the next day and there was no ML!!! Though there was cuddling, this was a first in a very long time. What do I make of it? I'm trying not to think too much about either.

Keep doing what you're doing w/ your W - it seems to be working. But not too eager, not too pushy. You are doing great. And remember, just as M is just paper w/out the love, friendship and commitment, so is D just another piece of paper. There are many, many love stories out there that DON'T necessarily end with a D. Sounds crazy to me, but I'm not the expert here.

FA

[micoms]

FA,

Thanks for the support I did it right. I'm glad nothing happened with the old friend, hope she's not too embarrassed to get together again in the future. Funny, I always thought she was out of my league, but before the drinks kicked in she told me she would have died if I had asked her out when we were younger and single. W said that the in love feelings are gone and I said it was the same for me but I would like to date to try to rekindle that flame. Oh well maybe by continuing to DB, she'll come around.

Looking back at how she was and treated me a few months ago to now, there is a big difference. Just got to keep plugging along. At times she seemed to be really listening, when she talked I did my best to just hear her.

H not ML when he came back from out of town, just cuddling I think is a huge step. I know that cuddling w/o ML for me is a bigger expression of love than ML.

Mike

[fooled again]

Mike,

Really? I'm surprised by your comment about cuddling being the greater expression of love for you. I don't know if that's true for my H, but I'm not going to over analyze it - he was very tired and so was I.

Yes, you did the right thing w/ your old friend. But wasn't it nice to hear that she found you attractive? And wouldn't it be even more wonderful to hear it from your W? But you have definitely come a very long way w/ your W from a few months ago. It's so hard to see the changes happening day by day, but when you step back far enough, you can see the changes that happen week by week or month by month, and in the long run those are the changes that last, those are the ones you want to be paying attention to, the ones you will trust. Anything that comes too easy would make you feel suspicious anyway, wouldn't it? Which is why you're saying that you would want to date your W for several months b/f moving back together again.

I think as long as you are supportive of your W (just not the D) and keep listening to her, you may be able to do what you once thought was impossible. You already know that you have to be really patient w/ your W, and you have detached. You seem to be changing your way of communicating w/ her in a way that is working. It all sounds very good to me, but baby, baby steps is the way you will do it.

Today I spent the day w/ D7 having a girly day - had brunch & went shopping. It was a nice day and we had a lot of fun together. And at one point today, I thought to myself that I could do this, live w/out my H and still be content, still have a fulfilling life, maybe even find love again. I know I would always regret that we couldn't make it work, but I honestly know now that I will be okay.

And interestingly, today I did not think all that much about H, what he was doing or who he was with. I'm fairly certain that he is really working at his new job and that OW has nothing to do w/ this trip, though there is still that tiny doubt in my mind. I often feel that this doubt will always be there in the back of my mind - that is what H has done to me and to us. He has destroyed the innocence of our R, the unquestioning trust that I used to have in him. Likely I will never trust anyone that way again, and that does make me a little sad.

But I think I've reached a new level of detachment, something I've been striving for for what seems like forever. It's as though at first I was baffled as to how I could possibly detach, then I was "acting as if" I was detached when around H but going crazy when I was alone, then I was "acting as if" when I was alone too. And now, I'm not even trying all that hard anymore - it's just happening. If H is around, if he wants to come see me or spend time w/ me, okay, though there are many times when I have other plans. I'm going to maintain our verbal custody arrangement, and when he has D I usually don't see him - I do things on my own or w/ friends.

And I'm making new friends, being much more outgoing and less reserved, opening myself up more. I'm doing this w/ both women and men, and it's been really good for me. I've always envied those people who are effortlessly friendly and I have always wanted to be that way myself. In the past I've been very private with a really small circle of friends and I really want to change that. I'd love to have my phone ringing off the hook w/ people asking me to do things w/ them. Of course my D will always be very important, but I've neglected my social side for a very long time and that has not been good for me. Possibly even contributed to where my M ended up.

One thing I do have to say is, it appears that H is following my list of 'baby steps signs that he wants to move back home' to a T. I don't know if he even realizes it or if he's forgotten the details of my list. It's as though he's found the recipe for reconciliation and is adding each ingredient. Part of me is suspicious of this, wondering if he thinks that all he has to do is follow the steps and everything will be back to normal. But part of me is reassured that H, having read it it black & white, is trying to give me what I need/want. The problem is we haven't really talked about anything. And as much as I thought that DBing meant not initiating R talks, this is where I think I may have it wrong and that it is now time to initiate some talking, maybe not an ultimatum, but some clues as to what else I believe we need to do to move forward.

FA

[micoms]

FA,

Thanks, I know I did the right thing with her. She called and thanked me for not listening to her. I guess she has missed the physical touch in her R, she's is going through a D also. She said she comes to town on business about every 6 weeks and wants to stay in touch. It felt great that she found me attractive and yes it would feel very good to hear it from W. I am starting to think about dating, funny a month ago I wouldn't even consider it. But after the incident with my old friend it has me wondering and missing that feeling of being close to someone who wants to be close to me.

It is good to be reminded to look at how far we have come instead of how little movement there is on the S's part today. Thanks for reminding me to look at the larger picture. I know I've said that myself to others, I should follow my own advice, thanks for that. You're right I look at how I feel today and I have detached, I don't think about what W is doing or where she is going or who she's with.

If H is following your list is that so bad? He knows what you want to see from him and he is doing what is needed. I think you know things will not go back to normal. We cannot go back to what was and have to move forward to a "new" normal. I think there are times that a R talk is OK. I think early on in our DBing we shouldn't initiate R talks because it is seen as pursuing. It could be time for you and H to have a talk, definitely not an ultimatum, to set some goals on how to move forward, what he needs from you and what you need from him.

I do think your close and will continue to keep you in my prayers. Thanks again for pointing out not to look for change from day to day, but to look at the big picture over a longer period of time.

Mike

[micoms]

FA,

Happy Easter, hope you have a good day with your D. Did you hide the eggs well?

Mike