Hi, D&C. Just wanted to chime in here and say that I completely agree with Puppy and Grumpyeby, and I, too, don't believe Puppy was implying that you hand down ultimatums. The only way it will come off to your W that way is if you don't choose your words carefully. Use "I" statements rather than "You" statements. Explain your boundaries to her, and if she perceives them as ultimatums/demands, then make sure she understands that they aren't at all. They are merely your personal limits/dealbreakers/boundaries. They are what you will or will not tolerate in your R. The choice is hers as to whether or not she will respect them.
So ask yourself: What am I willing to tolerate in my M? What am I not?
Can you put up with the cake-eating and look the other way? If yes, then stop focusing on W, OM, and the A. Do what you need to do for YOURSELF. Detach, GAL, and be nothing more than a friend to your W, and try not to be so available to her.
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
My wife said to me "You can't tell me what to do!" And I said "You're absolutely right. But I CAN tell you ABSOLUTELY what I'm willing to put up with or not put up with to remain in this marriage."
It is OUR boundaries that we enforce; not the spouse's behavior that we control.
I have been at this a long time and I have to agree w/ Puppy, Grumpy & GoingForward. I did not set any boundaries for a very long time and the A went on and on while my H continued to cake eat. Now I believe he was & still is in MLC, but that being said, I sacrificed my own sense of dignity to save my M. A year later I was still doing the same thing. I wish I had the strength do do what Puppy did at the beginning, and at some point throughout my ordeal.
My H is still "out there" and I honestly don't know when he'll come home. I don't even know for sure whether OW is gone from his life & mind. But now I'm seeing that by not setting boundaries, I have enabled him. Some S's may need that push to get them to give their own heads a shake and wake up. Others need to burn themselves and their A's out b/f they are able to see what they are throwing away.
The question is what do you feel you deserve and are willing to put up with. Step back from the raw emotions you feel, the fear, the insecurity, the loss, and think with your head. You already know the right answer for you - I did all along but was too afraid, maybe wasn't strong enough to stand behind my convictions. When you are ready to lay it all out in black & white to your W, that is the time to do it. Until then, use DBing to make yourself stronger, take care of yourself & learn to love yourself again, not to lure your W back to you.
I wish you the best.
FA
What does not destroy me, makes me stronger.
FA:43, H:42 D:7 M:10 yrs, T:24 yrs EA:?, PA:1/06 S:3/07 EA/PA ongoing Aborted attempt to move home 07/08
She has her best-friend in you and her OM for her physical needs, so she really doesn't have to over-think trying to make any decisions or changes in her life. She in a sense, has it all.
She says R with OM is an EA. She says "He's just a good friend, but I sort of have a crush on him". I am assuming it's more than that but that's all she will tell me. A while back I asked if it was PA and she just stayed quiet. I guess what I'm getting at is that I really do think she is having this EA because she feels more comfortable talking with him about things. She says he makes her laugh (funny... I used to before she got used my humor). This OM is a radio DJ so he's a smooth talker and I'll have a hard time competing with that. So where does that leave me? The emotional and physical needs aren't being met by me, so why is she still holding on to me? I think it might be for all the wrong reasons...
We're in an interesting situation as a couple... We're both extremely successful for our age, money has been a little tight since we bought our house but we live in a nice house. OM is broke all the time and has money problems, or so I've heard. So our lifestyle might be one thing she doesn't want to let go of. This next one may sound shallow, and it would be shallow of her if this is a reason for staying. I am an attractive guy, I don't know what else to say. OM is overweight, bald, and as W's mother put it 'he looks like a child molestor'. Everyone who knows what's going on and knows who this OM is is SHOCKED that this is the guy she's having A with. I am a 'nice guy' I do things for people even when I shouldn't (such as some people have suggested I'm doing with W by being her friend) so she knows she can count on me to be there for her regardless. Those needs I am meeting for her but they're not the big ones.
I'm not the one she confides in or gets intimate with and that is something I'm trying to change, but I think it's too soon to start doing anything drastic to get there, such as 'go dark' or even have a conversation with her about working things out for that matter.
I'm confused... Wish I had a crystal ball to see if all this hurt I'm putting myself through will payoff in the end.
TRUST ME! Whatever it is she sees in him, its not a reflection on you. This is not about you and I know how hard that is to see when you are the one having to go through all of the emotions, but its really not. There may have been issues that got your M to a place that an A was a possibility, but the decision to go forth with that A were not yours.
Iam not a Budweiser Girl by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not ugly either, I'm cute. My H OW, and I have had confirmation on this, is straight FUGLY. She is 4ft. 10, over 200 lbs and usually looks like a pissed off TIKI. So don't overthink the who...its more about the why and that is her deal.
If you can do the friend thing, which right now in my sitch I really have to since OW claims she is "expecting", but other than that and my kids, there really isn't anything else to say.
You gotta do what works for you, but don't keep trying to figure out what is just beyone comprehension...
M:39 H:39 K:S14;D8 T:22yr M:15yrs S:12/28/07 EA/PA 3/14/08 OW preg 11/17/08 born 12/12/08 his ~~~~~~~ Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option
So don't overthink the who...its more about the why and that is her deal.
Grumpy's right. Do not make physical comparisons between you and OM. Looks have absolutely NOTHING to do with it.
When I found out about my H's EA, after the initial feelings of devastation, my first thoughts the very next day were, "What does she look like?", "Is she some pretty, petite little thing?", "Does she look the way I used to before we had children?", "Does she have a body to die for?". It was killing me to think that my H could be physically attracted to any other woman besides me. After 3 kids, my body wasn't exactly what it used to be, but I still always took pride in my looks, especially my face. I have always received flattering compliments on how 'pretty', 'beautiful', and 'sexy' I am.
Well when I finally saw the OW, I was utterly flabbergasted! OW was NOTHING like what I imagined she would be. She was shorter than me, very pudgy, seemed to be having a terribly bad hair day, and not very attractive in the least bit. It was at that moment that I realized my H's A had nothing to do with the way OW looked. It was about what she offered him emotionally. She gave him the emotional, friendly support that I stopped giving him myself just a year before.
I would refrain from any and all R talks with your W, as you said yourself, unless you want to push her away. I really think you ought to make yourself less available to her if you'd like to see positive results towards possible reconciliation. I know you want to be around her and it's hard to refuse any time with her, but as others have said, she's got the best of both worlds right now. As long as she has that, she will remain on the fence, fully admiring the view.
Just my two cents.
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
LOL... I sure love those visuals you guys give me of OW. Not flattering, that's a fact. As soon as I saw who W's OM was I knew the attraction there wasn't physical, it was something deeper. Which is actually more bothersome to me because then you get into the whole 'we're soulmates' mentality that W might have about him... again something that I can't compete with given that our love is mature and she's still in the puppy-love stage with him. I have been tempted to photocopy the section in DB about 'falling out of love' and giving to her. Our R is relatively new compared to most people on this board. We've know eachother almost 7 years, dating for 5 1/2, married for 2 1/2. When she told me she was having A she also said ILYBINILWY. When she found someone that could support her emotionally better than I was doing she went for it and thinks she's in love. The section of the book I'd like to have her read is about how falling in love is a temporary feeling and once the honeymoon is over so to speak the relationship enters a danger zone. It says that in this danger zone that where A's happen and if S run off with OP they're likely to realize later, when their honeymoon is over that they 1) made a huge mistake by leaving first S or 2) Don't believe they are capable of loving. What they just need to realize is that the spark isn't always going to be there like it was at first. It will come and go but that first love and attraction a couple has doesn't last, it's completely normal, and it's just what happens. I've heard that letting S read the book could backfire, but I mentioned to her last night when she came over that there is a part of the book I think she should read. She seemed intrigued.
Ever since I got the phone bill on Monday I have stopped initiating all contact with my W. But she has still been initiating communication with me. Yesterday morning she e-mailed me from work asking if I wanted to go on a break with her to run back to my place and get a soda. I've got a soft spot for her so I accepted. She could have gone by herself but I like seeing her so I came along too. I know it was a little thing, but it was very random because she's never asked me to do anything like that before. I am thinking it was excuse she used to see me.
For the rest of the day I didn't initiate any contact. Then last night she called me to see what I was up to. I was planning on watching some movies I rented with my roommates. When I asked her what she was doing she said she was thinking of coming over and having wine with me. Again, I wanted to see her and didn't have it in me to say otherwise. So she came over and we hung out and talked for about an hour. No R talk came up, it almost did but I changed the subject when I could see where it was going.
I didn't have the heart to bring up the phone bill or her R with OM so that conversation might be saved for another night or I just might bury it. She hasn't mentioned anything about OM in a long time so she might think I'm oblivious to the fact that she's still seeing him. I just don't know how to safely approach this subject.
I'd like to truly thank all of you who have been reading about my situation and offering advice. Your advice has been inspirational to me.
But she has still been initiating communication with me. Yesterday morning she e-mailed me from work asking if I wanted to go on a break with her to run back to my place and get a soda. I've got a soft spot for her so I accepted.
IMHO, you are being way to accomodating to her. I know you have a soft spot, but you are at her beck and call and she knows it. Heck, you know it. Listen, I have been there. You hang on for any little crumb off the dessert that the W drops for you. But you can't go on living on crumbs can you? You want the whole dessert. To get the whole thing, you can't let her take advantage of you. She is getting the best of both worlds right now. She gets her affair, and she gets you. That certainly is not healthy for you!
OK... So I have been looking good, smelling good, GAL, etc. I have been doing it for myself and W has noticed... but if I don't see her then how is she supposed to catch on to these positive changes in me? I guess we're to a point where she knows I'm changing for the better, so if I cut down on the contact with her then it probably doesn't matter if she sees me or not.
Does it matter that we are separated, D is very much on the table, and before I started DB'ing she asked me not to speak with her for about 3 months? She all but handed me the papers before I started making positive changes. With all those things considered would you still say that it's a good idea to cut HER off? I fear if I do that she'll just run off with OM. At least what is happening now gives me the opportunity to win her over.
DB says to do what appears to be working. This is working as far as re-establishing the connection in our R and I feel like this still needs to be worked on. If I start getting uptight with her I see it as a step backward, because then we can't continue progressing with our R. At some point OM needs to be addressed, but I think it's too early for that. This is just what feels like the right thing to do at the moment... then again I don't know for sure what the right move to make is. That's why I'm here.
Wish I had a crystal ball to see if all this hurt I'm putting myself through will payoff in the end.
I sure love those visuals you guys give me of OW. Not flattering, that's a fact. As soon as I saw who W's OM was I knew the attraction there wasn't physical, it was something deeper. Which is actually more bothersome to me because then you get into the whole 'we're soulmates' mentality that W might have about him... again something that I can't compete with given that our love is mature and she's still in the puppy-love stage with him. I have been tempted to photocopy the section in DB about 'falling out of love' and giving to her. Our R is relatively new compared to most people on this board. We've know eachother almost 7 years, dating for 5 1/2, married for 2 1/2. When she told me she was having A she also said ILYBINILWY. When she found someone that could support her emotionally better than I was doing she went for it and thinks she's in love. The section of the book I'd like to have her read is about how falling in love is a temporary feeling and once the honeymoon is over so to speak the relationship enters a danger zone. It says that in this danger zone that where A's happen and if S run off with OP they're likely to realize later, when their honeymoon is over that they 1) made a huge mistake by leaving first S or 2) Don't believe they are capable of loving. What they just need to realize is that the spark isn't always going to be there like it was at first. It will come and go but that first love and attraction a couple has doesn't last, it's completely normal, and it's just what happens. I've heard that letting S read the book could backfire, but I mentioned to her last night when she came over that there is a part of the book I think she should read. She seemed intrigued.