Letter from WAW after she flew to my city for talk

[Just_Me]

We are to believe none of what we hear when are WASs are in the throes of their torment, yes??

Yeah, I think so. Unlike you, there are many that are quick to dismiss the negative things that are said, like, "I never loved you", but aren't as quick to disbelieve the positive things. I think you have to do both, and let actions speak.

[gratefulweb]

Hey GH31 -

My wife left me in June 2006 and she was having an EA that later evolved into PA. A lot of why this happened is because I pushed her away with angry, controlling behavior. She got fed up with it and then someone else who was very receptive to her came along and she jumped on his train. Once the OM was on the scene, the more I questioned her about him and heck, the more I even THOUGHT about OM... the more it pushed my W away. I have dealt with a lot of my internal baggage and have changed dramatically over the last 1.5 years for the better. I've also calmed down 1000 fold from where I was when my wife first left.

So I think we share some of that stuff in common and I want to give you some of my perspective, now that I've read your sitch.

1. It sounds like the DBing is working. Your W is seeing changes in you. This should be inspiring to you, but don't let your guard down. I bet you still have a long way to go. In fact, I'm pretty sure you will be working on your own baggage the rest of your life. It's a real blessing that you have come to accept your own issues. Lots of men can't even make it that far. The fact that you live in a different country than your wife and don't see her a lot works to your advantage in ways. When she sees you, the changes you've made are more dramatic to her... as opposed to partners that see each other on a daily or weekly basis. Keep working on yourself. You have to keep peeling the onion of your psyche back. Keep focusing on yourself and regardless of if you end up with your W or not... you will be a better person! You are already seeing the results with perfect strangers. Just think about what's waiting for you after a years' worth of "self healing."

2. Do you really want to save your marriage? I'm reading that you are sort of wavering at times. I suggest that you really go deep inside yourself and find that answer... regardless of what your W is saying and doing with OM. If it's "Yes I want to save my marriage with this woman and I love her" then indeed stop the dating. Also, STOP thinking about the OM. That includes trying to rationalize why W is still hanging with OM, even though she wants you. She's going through a process and unfortunately it involves some other dude. You don't even know how long it's going to take her to work through it all. There is no way to know for sure. What to do why waiting? See point #1 above. That's ALL you can do. Let her go, stop thinking about OM, and make changes to yourself without expectations. It's way harder to do than type...sorry.

You are in a way better position than most people on this message board. Your W is actually telling you that she DOES want to work it out. She wants you in the future. Most people here, myself included, are only praying to hear those types of reassuring words.

3. From what I've learned, W's that have been with verbally abusive and angry men are yearning for validation and acceptance. When you do talk with your W... compliment her. This will go sooo far! She wants to hear you say that she is beautiful. She want you to say that she is a little butterball of love. Don't give her the "I want you back" or the "I love you," but when you are on the phone, slip in a few "your voice sounds so wonderful" or silly stuff like "oohhh... for a second I though I got a call from an angel." When you see her tell her something like "you look beautiful" or "oh, you look wonderful in that dress." Compliments, compliments, compliments. Tactfully insert them from time to time. They will take you QUITE far, especially as you are trying to mend damage done.

Lastly, this guy Just_Me, he's a great great guy. Reading the post he left for me back in OCT/NOV 2006 probably kept me from a complete break down. Hi Just_Me... long time no chat. Thanks again for your great efforts on this message board!

[Jay Scott]

at least she still has passion for you bro. That is a good sign. I wish I could have an email like that to read over and over again!

[GH31]

Well,

This weekend was OK. I went to another part of Germany to stay with some relatives and have some human contact.

Great weekend - ended up going out and staying out until 11am the next morning with my cousin and her friends. Glad to be doing that still at the age of 31, although I don't want to make a habit of it.

For some reason yesterday and today I felt absolutely devastated and ruined. It is horrible, this emotional rollercoaster that is a separation. The emotions change more rapidly than mountain weather conditions.

My wife has emailed me asking about how all of my job interviews are going, still signs off emails with my pet-name for her and with "love". I have stopped doing that and sign off all of my emails with "best wishes" or "take care" and start them with "Dear [Wife's name]". She has sent me around three emails today which is a definite improvement on before.

For those of you new to my sitch, the only contact I have with my wife is through email. She lives in another country and we don't speak over the phone currently. She has a new number which I haven't asked for and which she hasn't given to me. he has called me once and come to visit me once since the separation. All on her own initiative which I guess is good. Rather than responding immediately I always wait for a day to pass before replying as per LRT.

She has also asked me to make plans for a "fabulous future together" but what I don't like is how conditional her return is sounding and the fact that the OM is still in the picture and also....that she's currently living in another country. If we are going to make plans for a fabulous future together than I definitely need to involve her in the planning process and I believe that recommitting to the marriage and permanently severing ties with the OM is 100% necessary. I don't want to pressure her so I haven't even bothered replying to her yet (and I don't yet know what to do). Any advice from successful DBers as to how to play this.

It all sounds encouraging and I want to see more of it but whilst the OM is in the picture I wouldn't even consider taking her back, even though my mind, heart and gut-feeling really wants to. So for now, I keep up LRT and loving detachment because it's giving me the results I am looking for. I also continue to work on the anger, selfishness and abandonment issues.

Nothing juicy here I know, just wanting to vent. I cannot believe a word she says at the moment. It's like she's treating OR more like we were boyfriend and girlfriend rather than husband and wife.

[GH31]

Hello GratefulWeb,

Thanks heaps for sharing your thoughts with me here. It is much appreciated.

I think you are 100% correct about throwing in the odd compliment here and there which will probably work a treat. I have spoken with a DB coach who suggested I write in an email what I admire about her, and that I would do well to assimilate some of her traits into my own life. She is very relaxed, mild and gentle in comparison to my structured, passionate and ambitious nature. I was also to tell her that I have a ways to go. I did this and was very pleased with the response.

I can see what you mean about the fact that I appear to be wavering. This is due to the enormity of the task that I am facing and that if and when I get her back, I will have to learn to trust her again.

We never had any trust issues before in all our time together and our relationship actually unravelled really quickly.

I can live with the fact that she developed relationship with OM after the separation because it was my anger, verbal cruelty and complaining which occasioned the breakup, but the lies and hypocrisy I find terribly difficult to handle. I ask myself "how dare she tell me not to fool around with other girls?" or "how can she say I don't want you to be with any other girls but me....but I'm not with her - the ****ing OM is?".

I wonder if I can trust her if I get her back, that she has severed ties with OM completely. I know that there's no way I can control this so I will have to have faith (something I have never had in anything or anyone until now) that she's telling me the truth. I understand from much reading that we can expect a withdrawal period - as a reformed caffeine addict I can understand this.

I must work on these issues because I cannot have any more relationships with the people I love damaged in this lifetime, simply because I feel the need to vent with my temper and verbal venom. I would like my beautiful wife to get the most benefit from this personal growth. I am actually glad the separation happened so that I could finally make peace with my past and dampen the emotional relationship that I have with it. The stuff that's happened subsequent to the separation is what's hardest - lies, hypocrisy, talk of reconciliation whilst being with OM etc.

Anyway, just want to say that you guys are awesome. Without this forum to share thoughts and benefit from those who've trodden this path before, I would be an absolute basket case.

best,

GH31

[gratefulweb]

Hola GH31 -

Don't over saturate her with compliments, but perhaps make it a goal to interject one or two "kind" comments in every email/phone call/meeting. You have to repair the damage you've done with your serpent tongue. Believe me, I've been there. And like you were suggesting about telling her that "you still have a ways to go," it might serve you well to LIGHTLY give her acknowledgment of your poor treatment towards her. "I just want you to know that I'm aware of the negative things I've said and done in our R. I'm truly sorry and don't want to treat you that way any longer." Something like that anyway. Don't do that a lot, but perhaps drop that in tenderly at some point.


Have we established that you are really willing to go the distance with her, regardless of what has happened up to this point (including her interaction with OM)? If so, then your concern about trusting HER again may have to be a LOWER priority. Your hurtful comments and actions towards her is what got you in this situation (at least partially). It sounds like she is trying to find out if she can trust YOU right now.

So, keep focused on your own issues. Keep cleaning up your own emotional baggage. Be consistently loving, receptive, and accepting of her. You need to draw her back to you first. Once you have done that, then you can look deeper into if you will can actually trust her again. If you are successful at reeling her back to you, I think you will be able to see HER true intentions more clearly... thus revealing whether or not you can trust her.

Make sense?

Dude, this is all very hard stuff to do. I know you are in pain and I know you are angry about some of her hypocritical demands... and RIGHTLY so! You deserve to be treated fairly. It's a hard time emotionally. I bounced all over the place emotionally for about a year after my separation. But reading your story here... you've got WAY better of a shot at it then I do.

[GH31]

Hello again guys,

I went online this morning to clear my credit card balance and find that my wife has made some online purchases using my credit card numbers. I don't remember giving them to her so I am at a loss as to how she got them. It's not a lot of money - about $100 and I have my whole lifetime to recover from it, but now I am really thrown into doubt as to whether I want her back.

I'm sure in a day or two these feelings will subside and once again be replaced by longing and wanting her back though.

What's her game, is she trying to take revenge on me by running off to another country with OM and talking all the time about reconciliation - and doing it on my nickel? IMHO the consequences of leaving a marriage are a package deal. You can choose to separate from your husband and go with OM but you can't then say that your husband can't go with other women, and also still rely on your husband for economic outpatient care when you're bodily able to work yourself, and have no kids. She has been "supporting" herself using her credit card and is unemployed. I just do not think she is capable of making quality decisions at the moment - her credit card is Australian and the Australian dollar is a banana republic currency compared to the British pound, so she will be getting screwed on exchange rates bigtime.

It should be the easiest separation in the world but she isn't wanting to let me go.

I cannot describe the rage that I am feeling right now. $100 is nothing, but the lies, underhandedness and hypocrisy of doing it have made me livid beyond belief. It's the principle of the matter. However, I am still maintaining the 180 and being very calm about it. I'm not even going to mention it to her; I will simply call "Lost & Stolen" to make sure that any further attempts made by her to do this (and I'm now sure she will try it again) are unsuccessful.

If she wants to take off to another country while #*@!ing someone else she can do it on her own damn nickel.

[Just_Me]

GH31,

Call the credit card company and ask them to give you a new number.

[GH31]

Hi Just_Me,

Have taken care of that already. My wife is calling me later so I am sure there will be an opportune time to bring it up. The way I bring it up will be a complete 180 from the way I normally bring stuff like this up i.e. yelling, screaming, blaming, finger pointing etc.

Some people are just so damn cheeky!

thanks,

GH31

[Just_Me]

Are you going to ask her to reimburse you? If your not, then I wouldn't even bother (but then again, I'm not very confrontational..so many that's the wrong approach). I'd just wait for her to try the card again and then she'll get the gist of it when it doesn't work.