H is having affair after all

[25yearsmlc]

Dear EVD,

So sorry you are here, even though you are in the right place on these boards. Holly06 helped me more than she knows, btw, so listen carefully to what she says. (Plus, she's funny!)

The angrier you show your h you are, the easier it is for him to justify the A. My t said let h see the hurt, not the anger. My DB coach eventually said, (a few months after h left) to be upbeat, applaud loudly for the 1% positive" etc and lots of that stuff you cannot hear right now.

But maybe the hurt and or strength is what you need to show him, if anything. As for wondering about being fun in bed....pleasee...... I will say one thing on MY end though. WHen I'd be angry at h for being late from work (and interpreting it as a sign that he placed more value on work than family, marriage, etc.) I often "welcomed him home with my arms crossed", emotionally if not literally. Thing is, lots of women need to feel close to ML, but lots of men need to ML to feel close....

That's the rub of it. I should instead have welcomed him back to a warm home he''d want to return to. Why on earth did I think being cold would incentivise him to be home? I repeated this unsuccessful behavior for YEARS....and I thought I was a smart woman.

FOR NOW, you need to heal. He fears lots of things, probably the biggest zinger is if he loses contact with the boys (and later maybe he'll care more about the girls, but he knows they're going to know the truth and at some level he feels deep
shame...I also once read that "when men feel guilt, they attack."

So all you have to reassure him of is that you won't keep him from the boys b/c they love him and your love for your boys will always outweigh your anger at your h...and leave it at that. Don't let him play the victim here.

As for OW. YOu have no idea what she's going through. Believe me, she is ACTING and maybe she deserves an Oscar. But I suspect you are seeing cockiness where there isn't much. Not if all the workers and HM know and her h had a stroke. I can see where she'd maybe need some passion and justified an A, but with a married man? She knows more than you realize. The trip will be a nightmare for both of them if any other adults are there. OMG I'd love to be a fly on the wall b/c if other adults know, they'll be mortified. The down side is if you make too big a deal of it, you'll push them together into a "us against the world" type of R, so avoid doing that. LEt them face the consequences of their choices without any punitive comments or involvement from you. Remember, YOUR focus is on your children and your future without h. (Assume no future with h, in a way that closes the door without locking it. You have to make some choices and not give his indecision or cheating or whatev, any power over YOUR future).

You have to contrast your behavior with hers. Yes I mean IGNORE HER B/C SHE IS NOTHING. She is a bandaid over a sucking chest wound in your husband. He's bleeding and she's not fixing it and she does NOT matter at all in your life. Give her NO power over you.

FOcus on being the best mother and woman you can be. Don't go around telling people too much either. It makes you look vindictive and worse, it makes it harder for you to reconcile down the road...that's right. The more people that know, the harder it'll ever be for him to crawl back and even if he did, it'd make it harder for your pride to take him back when the whole world will tell you to drop him.

I think it was Balzac who said "there are no frigid women; only inept men." Don't know if that applies, but it could.

Again, listen to the experts on this. For now, it's all about YOU baby. Enforce the boundaries. You have to. It's a 180' for you and YOU NEED to do it for you and the kids. And maybe even the M.
((( hugs from across the ocean and a whole continent too )))
j-

[Evie]

Holly & 25yrs (25yrs, i have to admit, i was hoping you would find me and was looking 'forward' to your post! at least i've not been 2x4'd for once - LOL)

I liked your posts, you answered a lot of questions i was starting to ask myself. Whether they were BOTH feeling any guilt etc. I like the quote that 'a guilty man attacks'b/c he's doing a lot of that. He's also very angry at me, why is that?

I have a question - how do you show your hurt and not your anger? and 'She knows more than you realize'?

I have a confesion to make and now that the anger has subsided a bit, i feel a bit guilty. I have told people. My friends knew anyway, but I have told colleagues, in my defense, I thought/think that the rumour was out already. Enough said, hopefully after the easter holidys things will have died down a bit.

I dread logging onto the computer to find more emails from H and had already decided that i would make another boundary of 1 email a day.

Although i have stated quite clearly that i am not making any major decisions yet, in an email today H still says that i haven't told him of my intentions for the business!! I did say in the email that the business would continue as normal... I'm not sure if he wants me to pack it all up or if he is trying to find out if he needs to be worried. Obviously, i could hurt him with the business as well as with finances.

I am trying now to not react to his anger or guilt, i've become less vocal since last saturday, and trying to be a bit more sweeter.....I'm glad it's all via email, b/c i'm printing everything off.

Thank you for the hugs.

x evie

[Holly06]

Well well well,,,,,
I am funny?

Naughty, maybe but funny is a sexy trait in men, and I assure you I am not a man.
I have the waxing lady's affidavit to prove it

Thank you 25, I couldn't have said it better myself.
The pair of them, will be sporting burning ears, and have to fight the embarrassment the whole trip. Your part is to be graceful and dignified as you wave them off.

Let the community do their work.
They will!!!!!

I have read also, that men will attack to cover up their feelings of guilt,shame and despair. So the more he puts on "the mask of bravado" the more you KNOW he is hurting.

It just takes a while to try every avenue to shut off the pain valve, and then they look inward, to themselves as the cause of their pain. They they go through "heck". Well, the worser version of it. (yes I know worser isn't a word, it just sounded good to me!)

James OConnell is the one who enlightened me the most about what these men are going through.

BTW Evie, have I told you that I want you to consider your H in midlife crisis?
Think about it , and do the research here on the website to support or deny your thoughts.

You may find yourself hurt to recognize what you are experiencing in print. You may find relief in that there are so many of us before that have and are fighting this alien monster.
It devours you if you let it.

The MLC monster also makes you feel guilty. Don't go there. This is not your fault.

You talked to some friends. Women do this. It is a survival technique we ALL use to fight hurt feelings.
Everyone has done it, and we will all do it to an extent.
Doing this will diminish with time, as you will wear your friends out with all this, they just can't understand.
That is why we are here.

You will make more mistakes DBing. That is part of the journey. Dust yourself off and get right back on the trail. We all do, and it is part of the process.

Let me put this in a perspective that you might understand.

When you have an adult or child that needs to learn to swim, you expect them to listen to instructions and get in the water and do a 400m IM, right?
No? There are fine details, and trial and errors to make that swim their own? You mean you might advise me to take out my fly faster, but really what I need to do is balance out the fly/back and breast/free splits? You mean I should personalize my swim?
Stop with the guilt. You are in a learning process. You have enough pain so don't do a 400 IM today, ok?


CHeers
Holly

PS, I would love the job, but the commute is more than I can handle.......

[Evie]

oh I don't know, how about weekdays here and weekends at home!!!

The waxing - LOL, do you wax your lady bits?? what the full brazilian (omg)or just the bikini??

Thank you for the reassurance that he is hurting & ashamed - good i'm glad.

I had considered MLC before, his behaviour certainly pointed that way. I've been reading about infidelity. We (me in this case) must own 50% of the problems in the M, the was must also own 50% of the problems but 100% for the affair. Something was lacking for both of them, in her case (maybe) she needed some passion, in his case i'm still figuring that out.

I've just remembered a conversation i had with Saffie. I said i didn't think was having an affair b/c you here of them losing weight, buying new clothes, sharpened grooming, my h was not doing any of this, yes granted he was at the gym more but that was b/c he was meeting o/w there. He did have a new jacket, which she may have bought him, personally i don't like it, makes him look older, also he started to wear more shirts and tuck them in.....on the rare occasion he would wear a shirt, the girls would go mad if he tucked it in, that made him looked older, I wonder if she was influncing how he was dressing or if he was just doubting his dress sense/confidence - interesting.


Who is James o'connell?

I'll just stick with a brief 800m gentle warm up, need to get water fit again, start slowly, i understand you there.

x evie

[Evie]

i think i'm doing ok then slam. I get to work at lunch time and ow is there again!!!! Will this bitch ever go away. H has obviously given her loads of water time to conduct private swimming lessons.

Then I see our friend. Our friend says he has seen H and H has said that they were both seperated when the affair started and sees it as 2 seperated people doing just that. He said i should box all this mental stuff in a box and move on.... yeah right, just like that. I get the impression from our friend that there is no hope, i know i shouldn't take any stock by this, but I still can't believe there is no hope, i can shut that door, but I can't bolt it yet. The friend said he would assume the affair is still going on, which i am, but i want to believe H when he says it's over, doesn't know how he feels, but has no intention of going back to her.

just wanted to vent.

x eve

[Holly06]

yes, all the girl bits.

Nuff said.


Good attitude about your life. These early days, it is hard to get to ok, you keep getting more bad news. It does get better!
Hope is a personal thing, I won't tell you how to feel.
I was and am very hopeful, but it's not for everyone.

James O'Connell is an author who wrote (in my mind) the definitive work on MLC. He tells it from a very clinical, but the one in MLC's point of view.
You ever hear of Carl Jung? He is a contemporary of Freud, different philosophy, but he is the one who influences O'Connell, his book was written in 1980, and is now out of print.
I went to the local university and found it there.
You are not ready for it yet, but it is out there, and the title is something like, Men and Midlife Crisis..... like they all are!!!!

He is the one who sheds light on what these guys are feeling, and brings an important concept to the table, called "projection". That is where H trusts the W (or visa versa) with all his bad qualities, and his affair partner with all his good qualities. It is pure fantasy, but until they go through the process of taking back the qualities they "parked" in other people, they will not hear anything you have to say. He has all the answers.
So save your breath.

Most OW have a low self esteem and low frequency of morals. This is a match to H self esteem and morals, and they seem like a soul mate. That and they do not have history and with that person and they are willing and able to take H side of all the rotten things that happen to him, and bingo! You have a temporary soul mate.

Have you heard the saying " believe nothing what you hear from H mouth and only 1/2 of his actions?"
His words are like Charlie Brown's teacher, just noise.
Now his actions, the constant calling and texts, tell me he is still very much connected to you, and he is unsure if he wants a life without you.
So enjoy the attention of his calls and contacts, but only take the ones that are within your boundary. Just know that it is a positive, like a puppy dog that won't stop licking you. It is love, but enough already!!!!
Cheers,
Hoooollly

[LL44]

I am slowly learning to read everything Holly writes. WOW!

He is the one who sheds light on what these guys are feeling, and brings an important concept to the table, called "projection". That is where H trusts the W (or visa versa) with all his bad qualities, and his affair partner with all his good qualities. It is pure fantasy, but until they go through the process of taking back the qualities they "parked" in other people, they will not hear anything you have to say. He has all the answers.
So save your breath

O.M.G. This is beyond true. So very true.

Eve, just wanted to pop in and say I am thinking about you, my friend. Hope you are doing well.

[NoCodeBlues]

I'll second that, Lwb -- "OMG".

I have used this very word, "projection", in describing my WAW's actions. So it perfectly describes not only men in MLC but my WAW as well.

Wow.

[Jen_Jam]

you really need to look into Body Combat classes. These are non-contact and you have to imagine your opponent. I reckon you'd burn about 1000 cals!

But seriously ... hope you're OK. Please don't take what your friend said to heart, he/she probably doesn't know about DB'ing and it can produce the unexpected. Anyway, unless your friend is a bona fide soothsayer I'd not take what he says to be 100% true. But I'm sure they were meaning you well.

Not much else to say really .. hang on in there. I'm about tomorrow, going shopping in the morning, will check email in the morning and avvo. Have a lovely and relaxing Sunday evening.
(((((Eve))))) xxx

[saffie]

Evie,

Nothing more to add but wanted you to know I am reading along here and am around whenever you feel you need me.

((((((HUGS)))))))