Sounds like it's back to the rope-tug thing with W -- but I don't think it's square one.
You've got a lot of skill in handling this dynamic -- it's not gonna backslide all the way.
It sucks, though.
I think you should come over and hang out with me and my new circle -- we're gonna see summer blockbuster movies, make salads, and get buff.
Let W wonder where you are -- YOUR TURN to disappear mysteriously.
Step two -- hee hee -- get yourself a journal and write torrid things in it -- then hide it real quick when W walks in the room. That ought to get her attention.
I tell you, now that I've got new people calling, my H hangs out, snoops around, and calls me pretty. He's back from NY and telling me all about his trip. He left a bunch of stuff here -- presumably plans to be back and forth a lot.
Hmmm...
Anyways, the door's open at my pad -- D9 can come along -- we'll check out THE HULK pretty soon. And I'll bet we can find Harry Potter along the avenue somewhere...
I kind of hate to say anything; I sense your exhaustion with the situation. I wish there were something I could suggest that would ease your burdens. Unfortunately I think you're locked in a real impasse, and the situation is likely to persist (with minor variations) as long as you allow it to.
The "act as if", detachment approach helps you maintain your own sanity, keep yourself looking as attractive as possible, and maybe find some space for personal growth. Whether by itself it works in the end to rebuild your marriage into something good depends on your spouse's response, whether the disenchantment or misbehavior was a passing period of "temporary insanity" in an otherwise mature person, or a manifestation of their basic personality. People who are stable enough to be worth marrying (and staying married to) know how to be happy and cherish others. People who have too much chaos within them don't.
It's great that you've given your wife so much time and space to find her own way out of her labyrinth. But if it hasn't happened by now, it isn't likely to. Something I've observed in most situations of long-term marital discord is what I'd call limit-seeking behavior, where one or both spouses seem to have developed an innate sense of the limits of the endurance of the other, and continually push the envelope right to that point. And I've seen these situations go on for year after year and decade after decade. My in-laws would make an interesting case study.
At what point, after giving her all this time and space without meaningful improvement on her part, does your behavior amount to enabling? As time continues to pass, she piles up more bad actions and the burden of your resentment can only grow. I've been kind of a slow learner myself. It took more than a few lessons, but my wife finally taught me that she would treat me just as badly as I allowed her to. Once I realized that she wasn't going to figure it out on her own or learn by example, I just stopped tolerating anything I considered unreasonable. That actually has sort of worked.
KAW, in reading your sitch...ex-bf's ex-w, when they were still married but she wanted out and nothing to do with him...she had already left him once, went back, and all of a sudden wanted a new BMW...a $40,000 car. The bank called him and he politely told them to forget putting his name on any piece of paper having to do with that car, but she got it anyway...with a $700.00 per month note. They separated months later and divorced shortly after that. So he was not stuck with that note, it was all hers. Be careful with the finances...not a good idea to have your name on something while you are having a hard time of it in your M. Good luck!
Sorry these landmines are getting so close together. Your advice to me to get out and do things with the kids and have fun was on the spot, best advice I have.
I would keep going along with the jeep thing, but be very heistant to actually buying one. Does seem to be a tricky spot right now. W seems like she is very confused and just doesn't want to be happy right now, I'd stay away from that land mine as much as possible, in a polite way, of course.
Jackie
PS--did you find the HP book? I got mine at a BJs, do you have any wholesale clubs around? The book was good!
Hey K I feel for you, it's hard but in the end it really is our W's struggle. Mine has always been looking for "SOMETHING" to make her happy a new job,car,house,ect. She doesn't realize it's an inner peace that truely makes us happy and that we each are responsible for our own happiness. Sounds like your W's searching, hopefully one day she will find that inner peace we all need. As painfull as it is were reduced to the role of spectator most of the time. Personally I'm trying to make all major moves (financial career ect.) so that what ever happens in the M the results will be favorable in the end. Hang in there! C.
Interesting dynamic with the Jeep. Given what you've written before, it seems your W "knows" on some level that you snoop. As such, she knows you "know" about her thoughts, and thus, thinks you won't get her the car?!?! Thing is, my friend, you and I both know our Ses don't think straight on finances when in WA-mode. Protect yourself...
KAW, I know it's a bit scary, but do you not think it's time to confront your W with what's been going on? Let's face it, when our Ses first go into WA-mode, it is best that we stand back and let the process play itself out because it's entirely likely that they will see the light...eventually. Your situation is a bit different. You've already done this and forgiven. I think, in some ways (as I've suggested before), your W never had the opportunity to see what being with the OM was really like...never really had the fantasy live and then die... Heck, my W's A lasted at least a year. So, what to do...what to do...
I guess I'm thinking that eventually something has to give in your situation. Seems like things are building and building. Either she's going to go off the deep end (with all the wonderful associated fallout) or it will drag on and on until you get sick of it.
What have been your thoughts lately on trying to handle this, KAW? Were you planning on going with the status quo for now? Do you have a timetable? Where is your tolerence level right now?
You guys are great!! Such great responses, I read them a couple of times.
Not much new to report between W & I, and that's mostly because I haven't been around W all that much lately. Last week, we checked out our central air before the HOT weather struck and found out it had a problem. Its taken until yesterday for a service man to show up, but didn't have the parts needed, so AC was still out. Wednesday was hot, but she did make me dinner and sat at the table with me while I ate. I suggested going to the movies to cool down. She didn't want to and D9 wasn't up to it, so I said maybe we can do it tomorrow night. She said just take your D9. I said, "Very well." It was the last day of school, so W had a lot to talk about her day and the changes they're looking to make for next year. Afterwards, we talk about Jeep accessories and I showed her some catalogs I had (I have a 4 x 4 pickup with some extras) ... at times looking at the same book sitting closer to each other than in quite a while.
Thursday, I came home to W laying in bed (it was HOT) and nothing prepped for dinner. So I grabbed the newspaper and looked up movie times. I suggested we go out for dinner and then some shopping until movie time. W declined again, so I called D9 in from outside and asked if she wanted to go. She said yes, so I told her to clean up and get ready. I change into something more comfortable. The whole time W was quiet. When ready to go, I kissed W on the forehead goodbye. D9 and I had a great time! After MckyD's, picked up some SpongeBob B-day party supplies and saw "Little Nemo". When we got home W was asleep. Now that school is out, W is not up when I get ready for work, so I gave her another peck goodbye and off I went.
Tomorrow, D17 graduates!! so it will be an all day celebration. ... and then Sunday probably back to the HP book hunt. So I'm busy doing things that are fun and it has helped keep me from focusing so much on what W is doing or thinking.
Quoting Bridget: Step two -- hee hee -- get yourself a journal and write torrid things in it -- then hide it real quick when W walks in the room. That ought to get her attention.
Bridget, that just cracked me up! Thanks for the laugh, but I wonder ...
Quoting twilight zone: At what point, after giving her all this time and space without meaningful improvement on her part, does your behavior amount to enabling?
That's a good question, but ya know, I discovered only recently that there things about me that contributed to her unhappiness for eight years that my W did tell me about and I didn't take it seriously enough. So I guess I owe her a bit more time. I also am hoping that in continuing to seek what works will keep changing my behavoir enough that it won't be considered enabling, but as she continues to make her choices that push her futher away, then I will show I'm willing to move on without her. In the end, she won't have it both ways. Any broach about it now I believe will only cause her to choose against me.
Quoting Jackie: did you find the HP book? I got mine at a BJs, do you have any wholesale clubs around? The book was good!
Not yet, hope to pick up the hunt again on Sunday. No clubs in our area, but some across the river about an hour away. Not a member tho. Won't be going enough to make it worthwhile. Was good?! Does that mean you gone thru all 870 pages already? (that's what the review said it was)
Quoting jethro: I think, in some ways (as I've suggested before), your W never had the opportunity to see what being with the OM was really like...never really had the fantasy live and then die... Heck, my W's A lasted at least a year. So, what to do...what to do...
I hope that was not leading to maybe she should find out what it would be like with OM? ... for a year?...
Jethro, I'm bustin' your chops here... I know that's not where you were going with that, and believe me that thought has been in the back of my mind since she told me it because of OM's W that they stopped seeing each other last year. I never really did resolve how to handle that properly and may now be why its comin' back to haunt me now.
Quoting jethro: What have been your thoughts lately on trying to handle this, KAW? Were you planning on going with the status quo for now? Do you have a timetable? Where is your tolerence level right now?
You mean I'm suppose to have a gameplan? I really don't have specific answers right now. Right now, what I do know is that I was able to confirm that no matter what she tries, she feels I will always take her back. So I working on what I can do to start changing that and go from there...
Quoting jethro: KAW, why do you think she is staying right now?
Last year when she felt I would never change my ways, so she had no problem with telling me she wanted out. ... but now, I'm no longer the bad guy in R. I have addressed all of the things she saw wrong with me. Not saying I'm perfect, but she has recognized my willingness to make the effort to work on them continuously. So the reason this M will fail at this point is not because of me, but will a be on her. I don't know if she is willing to bear that burden. It is a tremendous amount of guilt. That's why I feel she wants me to open the door and I'm not gonna make it that easy on her.
rjd, ll, bridget, t-zone, lettie, jackie, spitfire, jethro .... thanks all for helping me stay the course.
Quote: Was good?! Does that mean you gone thru all 870 pages already? (that's what the review said it was)
Despite the length, it was a very quick read! Sounds like a good weekend you have planned. And maybe the HP hunt can be part of the fun for your D and yourself.
You sound like you have your head on your shoulders, and that is giving me strenght to be more patient in my own sitch--thanks.
Quote: Last year when she felt I would never change my ways, so she had no problem with telling me she wanted out. ... but now, I'm no longer the bad guy in R. I have addressed all of the things she saw wrong with me. Not saying I'm perfect, but she has recognized my willingness to make the effort to work on them continuously. So the reason this M will fail at this point is not because of me, but will a be on her. I don't know if she is willing to bear that burden. It is a tremendous amount of guilt. That's why I feel she wants me to open the door and I'm not gonna make it that easy on her.
Okay...I wanted to go somewhere with this info.
So, I think it's safe to say that your W isn't in full WAW-mode yet. Because of your changes and such, she's more on the fence this time around. It is my humble opinion that when our Ses are operating from "on the fence," they are more "open" to hearing certain types of information that might make them swing from one side to the other. In fact, we both know that they are plagued by the "should I/shouldn't I" demons.
In this vein, KAW, I have a rather odd suggestion, and you can tell me if it might work. In fact, it is based on Bridget's comment about YOU leaving a journal out. Here goes: What if you were to "accidentally" leave out a book? More specifically, "After the Affair?" Not sure you read it, but I suggest this one because it offers the WAS tools to get over the OP. Since she "knows" you snoop, you leaving this out might make her want to snoop. In fact, since her depression sends her to bed often, leave the darn thing in the bedroom so she sees it constantly.
I know it's a bit unorthodox, but who knows... She's on the fence and likely searching for answers to move one way or the other. Why not provide these answers to her???
Quoting Jackie: You sound like you have your head on your shoulders, and that is giving me strenght to be more patient in my own sitch--thanks.
Yea, but sometimes I catch myself wondering its screwed on right tho? I guess I just come for the school of "never give up hope"...
Jethro, you have always amazed me with your preceptions! There has been another shift this weekend ... for the better ... again. In trying to understand why (and there seems to be many plausable theories), I starting to entertain the possibliity that W's journal may be a means for her to deal with her feelings for OM and release them, let them go, so she can move on to be happy in our M ... either that or setting myself up big time?!
Big-J, I haven't read the book you mentioned, but I really like your suggestion alot. Thanks Man! Maybe, it would help alot if my theory above is true.
Had a really good weekend, despite a glitch of sorts. After the celebration of D17's graduation, W seemed a little down. When I inquired, she said it was a very emotional day. At first, she said it was because her side of the family didn't show. Later, when we were having a quiet moment and sitting close together, she mentioned it was emotional too because while W & I split up to get pictures of the ceremony from different angles, she "bumped" into OM (his son was graduating too). I asked if she spoke to him. She replied we said "Hi". I was gazing in her eyes when she said that. I felt myself just freeze up ... I didn't know how to react ... I felt dumbfounded ... and became frantic that my expression would come across that way. I felt like it was a rare oppurtunity but to do what? I didn't know what to ask. I tried to form a question, but she didn't understand it ... of course not, I did even know what I was trying to ask, so I dropped it and validated what she said about the day being emotional, by saying I'm sorry that the day was rough on her. So Jethro, I guess that book could have helped me with this. Now I keep wondering why it is she even mentioned running into OM?
Sunday, we all went shopping again. This time in Kingston. No luck on HP book yet, but D17 stopped by later and said she knew of a place she can pick it up at. Also, W found the Jeep she wants! Its yellow with a soft top with all the options included that she wants, but the dealership was closed. My W made the comment that it wasn't meant to be for her to have what she wants. I told her I will do what I can. I suggested she call them on Monday and find out how late they're open to. I would see if I can get out of work early. However, another complication came into being, in that Monday was the deadline for the labor contract in effect (union shop). There was a downturn on Monday in the prospects of having the new contract ratified, which would mean 12 hour shifts for me for the next couple of weeks, let alone getting out early on Monday. But I did get off work on time and we went and bought her Jeep. Scheduled to pick it up on Saturday. (BTW, contract was ratified, so no long hours of work for me ... yea!!)
After W's mention of running into OM, there has been a shift in her coming back to me both physically and emotionally, but I find myself not putting much faith into it. I can't help but think this is just another hump on the rollercoaster ride before the next dip. Afterall, what is reason behind this shift. Is it because she getting the Jeep? Getting her a kitten last year also had a similar softening effect or could be some more, like she came to some resolution over OM or me?
Thing is, my friend, you and I both know our Ses don't think straight on finances when in WA-mode. Protect yourself... 
Such great responses, I read them a couple of times.
Thanks for the laugh, but I wonder ...
I know that's not where you were going with that, and believe me that thought has been in the back of my mind since she told me it because of OM's W that they stopped seeing each other last year. I never really did resolve how to handle that properly and may now be why its comin' back to haunt me now. 
There has been another shift this weekend ... for the better ... again.