Does that atonement have to be with the offender, or could it just be with one's self?
(mind you - I'm not trying to stir up strife or make any particular point. I'm trying to understand the perspectives of the individuals making the statements . As Bworl said, "... just pondering here")
Does that atonement have to be with the offender, or could it just be with one's self?
Most 'affair' books I've read talk about each situation being different. It's common for the LBS to have to have some kind of atonement from the WAS because they have been severely HURT and betrayed. It's not a punishment where they have to 'beg for forgiveness'. It's them having enough empathy to understand what they put you through and if they love you enough, they will want to heal that wound any way they can.
My counselor said she wouldn't feel like she had done 'wrong' because in her mind it was justified. But she also said that at some point she would realize the hurt _I_ went through and want to do something to heal that. I think she did to a small extent but it was more that she was upset because she was afraid that I wasn't going to forgive HER than it was her empathizing with ME and my feelings.
That seems to be the problem we have always had. I am very empathetic and she is not. She cares, but there is a difference.
The problem I had has to do with the fact that, at the time, both of us came from a background of believing firmly that marital infidelity was sin. And while sin is sin, infidelity is a particularly devastating one because of the number of people who are impacted negatively. In addition, it constitutes a serious breach of the marital vows which are made in the presence of God and friends.
It's not a matter of placing "requirements" on forgiveness. Forgiveness is a matter that best heals US not them. It allows us to continue on without hoping or expecting retribution for what has hurt us. Too often I think we meld discussion of forgiveness with issues of trust.
Forgiveness can be given honestly and sincerely, and trust can still remain destroyed.
In my position, since there was never any willingness to accept that the actions were wrong, since, in fact, my ex seemed to be traveling along the same path as Frank's wife in insisting that what she did was not wrong because it was right "at the time," it was impossible for trust to be restored.
Again, once the line is crossed...
If trust is to be restored (and I firmly believe it must in order to restore a real relationship), the offending party MUST take steps to show that trust is merited again. This could take many forms, there certainly is no set rule. Acknowledgment that the actions were wrong and brought pain would seem to be a good first step.
Again, just my thinking out loud...
Bill
Last edited by Bworl; 03/13/0808:43 PM.
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I should add that absent your spouse eventually agreeing that their actions were wrong and being remorseful for them, we are left with few options.
We can choose to accept their new view on the matter and agree that infidelity can sometimes be ok. Ahem.
We can acknowledge that there has been a significant paradigm shift in our spouse's belief structure, and then set about assessing whether this shift creates an incompatibility that can be overcome or not.
Or we can decide that perhaps their unwillingness indicates that their "journey" continues and that perhaps now is NOT the right time to move forward with reconciliation.
Be interested in hearing other options.
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
My therapist pointed out that without an ability to admit the affair was wrong coupled with an apology there is no real ability to repair or heal the marriage.
My pastor says that without an acknowledgment that the affair was wrong it's tantamount to threatening adultery for the remainder of the marriage.
Unless, perhaps, the WAS can re-commit to the marriage and future fidelity even though they believe affairs are OK sometimes. Sort of a charitable abstention. In other words they can make a promise and keep it, even though they don't think infidelity is wrong in an absolute sense.
Dunno.
In my personal experience, I find the "high-handed" unremorseful, unapologetic justification of an affair very hard to get past, even if the WAS were to recommit to the marriage.
Eight years ago, my STBXW sat me down, took me by the hands, looked me in the eye, said she knew how much her infidelity hurt me, she was sorry, and she'd never do it again.
I forgave her. Truly and completely.
She did it again.
Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
Well, in my case W eventually realized what she did was wrong. And she swore she'd never do it again. But of course we have to realize that the WAS who asks for a DIVORCE doesn't see it as an affair because they are 'separated' and getting divorced.
I don't know if she has or hasn't banged anybody. I know she has an EA at the least. I know she has given herself permission to date if she 'feels like it'. She's getting divorced so she is 'free'.
It doesn't matter really. I know she is capable of it right now and really, that's enough for me. As far as I'm concerned she HAS done it because she WANTS to.
So, no matter. She isn't my W, she is the teenage girl again. Angry, everything is my fault. Same old stuff.
It's kind of sad that right now my major goal is to get back on my feet financially so she can move out and I can get some peace in my life. It's so sad that you can love someone who supposedly loved you, and then end up in this place where they have nothing to give but anger. I have never, ever, had anyone who 'loves me' treat me like this except for her.
And I thought I was smart enough to avoid those kinds of women. Problem is, I got one but didn't realize it until I had kids and a commitment.
. As Bworl said, "... just pondering here")