Back on the Roller Coaster - OW still around

[micoms]

FA,

Wow, what a wonderful exchange with H. Try to let him bring up the R talks, don't be surprised if he takes a step back. At least now you know H is interested in coming back home!! Take it slow, my coach recommended a period of dating prior to W moving back home. Maybe talk with H and come up with a plan, two months of dating, more overnight stays, bringing stuff over slowly. I would hold off on what else you want besides H moving back home, use your DB skills, sit down with H and set some goals, small ones and build on them, let H set some for you also.

I think it's ok to let down our defenses with our kids at times, it's hard to be brave and hold it together all the time.

I don't know if you are piecing yet or not but you're very close. The real work will come when H does move back home. Read some of the posts there to get an idea of what to do.

Don't try to go too fast or push H to progress faster, it has to happen at his pace. I understand about your hesitation about if H will backslide again, but you can't keep up the wall, you have to open up to H.

S26 isn't the baby, we have a D19, she's the baby. I told my W that S moving out is ok, he's not signing a lease or moving into an apartment, it's a house. If things don't work out he can always come home, nothing lost. The mortgage isn't in his name.

Good luck and keep me posted.

Mike

[fooled again]

Well last night was interesting. H has been working for two days w/ someone from his new company, so I haven't heard much from him, just a couple of calls. Last night after dinner w/ his coworker (male) he calls from his car & minced around coming to see me for a bit, I said okay, then he says it's late, so I mirrored what he said & he accuses me of turning it around. So I change the subject & asked about his day, which he is happy to talk about. After a bit H tells me he is 5 mins from the house, what should he do, and I say, "I've already said come over, I don't know what else you want me to say". So he says see you in 5 mins.

He comes in w/out knocking (!?) and plays w/ the dog for a bit then gives me a hug & kiss & plays more w/ the dog. We we talk about the hot water tank that died, & I express frustration that it's the last thing I need. We talk more about the dog H suggests an electric fence, & I say I can't really afford that right now. Then H says that now that he's working soon he can afford to support our lifestyle & he knows that he's behind in helping me & that's his first priority. He is looking very serious and thoughtful at this point. I say to him that I never had any doubt of that, and it's true - not for one minute did I ever doubt that he would find a good job and be able to resume his financial responsibilities.

Usually H likes to watch the late news, so I ask him if that's what he wants, but he says no. So we sit on the couch & talk more about his work, my work, D's dancing & other things. He is still looking very serious and thoughtful, like he's figuring something out. The whole time I am upbeat, never sad or angry or accusatory. A couple of times, as we're talking about my work, he slips in a comment about someone asking me out, but I ignore it both times and don't react. I don't bring up anything to do w/ R and I look him in the eye w/ the hint of a smile in my eyes and on my lips (I've been practicing this look, so that I appear content, almost happy, maybe w/ a secret). Whenever I look at him this way he asks me "What?", and I always smile and say "Nothing."

Finally H says it's late as if he wants to leave, so I ask if I can give him a hug, & he says yes. As I hug him I touch his hair & he says he hates his hair, so I ask him about it & say that he looks good to me, and smells good. Then I feel a tear on his cheek but say nothing about it. A memory comes to me of when we were in our 20's & I cut his hair once really short, and I laughed softly to myself. He asks what I was thinking about & I tell him, so we share a laugh about that good memory from the past. Things continued as you might suspect, & after, as we were lying there he was sighing, as though if he was thinking of something, maybe wanted to say something. I asked if he had to go, & I think he wanted to stay but he said he had no clothes there (regretfully?). He got ready to leave, sighing the whole time. Now usually I would have asked what was the matter (I think I did once), he would always say nothing and I would always press the issue saying "I know there's something wrong, why won't you tell me, etc.", usually resulting in a fight. So I was just about to say that I felt there was something wrong, but I stopped myself and simply asked him for another kiss b/f he left.

I'm getting the strong sensation that H really may be at that stage of reconnecting, of seeing what he is missing and what he has to lose. I feel that he is also testing me as to whether I will accept him, and I know that he is looking for things like me touching him & hugging him (he went so far as to say that on the phone to me about a week ago), as well as ML. But he's still unsure, scared, insecure, depressed - I can feel it. At the same time he is drawn to me - I can feel that too. It must be an unbearable push-pull to live with every day.

I came across this reconnection thread: [url=link]TMAK-Explanation of Reconnection[/url], and I see alot of what my H is doing right now. I know it is a crucial time right now, that I have to stay calm, not pressure H, keep a PMA and keep GALing and let him have his space and come to me in his own time. I'm trying REALLY hard not to interpret his sighing and reticence about talking to me as a negative thing. I almost think he really wants me to ask him what he's thinking, but that can backfire so easily, so instead I've decided to create a comfortable, accepting atmosphere so that he feels safe to talk to me when he is ready.

It was definitely a positive baby step, maybe a big baby step. I'll keep my mind and heart open and think positively. This may take another year, so I need to continue to be patient w/ him, but I think he'll come out of it and come home one day.

FA

[micoms]

Fa,

Baby step I think it's a giant step. H comment about someone asking you out, He's trying to see if you are dating I guess, reassure him that you want him no one else. Next time tell H to bring some clothes to keep at your house in case this happens again. I think his serious and thoughtful look might be ha was trying to think of how to ask to come back. The tear on his cheek was the thought of what he has done.

I also think he is at wanting to reconnect. It might be time to ask H if he does want to come back home. Maybe weekends for a while, then add a couple of week nights and see how it goes. I think he is waiting for you to ask him back, I don't think he wants to ask you.

Mike

[fooled again]

Mike,

I wish I could be as optimistic as you, but I don't think H is there yet, as much as I'd like him to be. Snodderly's thread on reconnecting, TMAK-Explanation of Reconnection (sorry, I messed up the link in my last post), specifically discusses being especially patient when the MLCer is starting to reconnect and not pressuring him/her. I think asking him to leave some clothes here and/or asking him to move back home could easily be seen as pressure. He knows I want him to come home - we talked about it on Sunday night. But he pretty much came out and said that he wasn't ready, he talked about "figuring things out". Besides, he read my list of "things I'd like to see that will show me he's going to come home", which kindof sucks b/c there's no mystery. On the other hand, I've pretty much handed him an instruction manual so there isn't alot of confusion either. I suppose when he is ready to take those baby steps, he will, and I'll know what his intentions are.

I'm so grateful for your support, but I know that I have to stay my course for the time being and not drop anchor until we are truly in a safe harbor, and I can clearly see that we're not there yet. There are more positive signs and I am receptive w/out being clingy. He reached out and pulled me close to sit on his knee tonight b/f he took D to his place.

I think that the fact that he brings up others asking me out shows me he is testing the waters, seeing my reaction, if I look guilty. I think that by ignoring the comments I leave him to speculate - I don't want to make him fear that I am actually dating someone, but neither do I want him to think that the it's an impossibility. He already knows that if things don't work out for us in the end, I wouldn't have any difficulty getting a date.

So amid all of these positive signs I have to remain calm, patient and partially detached - I don't know where he is at in the reconnection phase and I don't want to assume anything. That will only lead to disappointment. Snodderly said that it's important to keep your expectations at zero right now, so this is what I'm trying to do. At least until we can communicate about our R, and our needs.

Sounds like you're tackling some long overdue projects - that's got to make you feel good. I wish I was a bit handier - maybe I'll make that part of my GALing!! Do-it-yourselfing!

FA

[micoms]

Fa,

I guess you're right, I haven't read any piecing advice, I'm not there yet! I do see strong signs that H does want a R with you. That's what gets me about our S's, they worry if we've dated someone when they have had a full blow R with OP.

I wasn't thinking for you to ask him to leave some clothes at your place, but when he says he has to go home because of no clothes, tell him kind of flippantly if you brought some with you or left some here, you'd have a change of clothes.

I think H is trying to think about how to undo the damage, how he can make it up to you. I think you have the right idea, start a new R from this point forward, the past is gone, forget about it and move forward.

I know you have to be patient, but if I were in your shoes I'd have the cool look on the exterior but celebrating like nothing else on the inside. I'm happy for you and hope you the best.

How far are you from the border with Washington? I have a brother that lives one and a half hours north of Seattle, I might visit him this summer. He tells me the sun shines there every day, just most times it's in a liquid form.

Mike

[fightingirish]

fa,

Reading your post about your night made me cry. It was really touching, and it seems that he really is trying to reconnect with you.

Its so sad that our M's have to come to this, It makes me hurt so.

I felt your saddness and happiness in your post. Hang in there.



tal

[fooled again]

Mike,

I try not to read too much of the piecing stuff either, maybe b/c I don't want to think we're there and then have a major backslide, maybe b/c alot of the piecing advice is the same as the reconnecting advice. Things seem to be moving in a good direction, so I don't want to change things too much.

My H has worried about me being unfaithful since we were in our early 20's and I had a little fling while on a college bus trip. This was at least 20 yrs ago (10 yrs before we got M), but he told me he never forgot and it has never been able to get it out of his mind. Also, about 10 yrs ago I became friends w/ someone I worked w/, which caused H uncertainty and suspicion - it wasn't exactly an EA, and I did consider taking it to the next level, but I made a decision that I would not do that, that I loved my H too much and was not willing to sacrifice my M for something that I knew was not real. Somehow I knew that my feelings for this person were borne out of a feeling that there was something missing from my life (tick tock).

These two events are undoubtedly why my H doesn't believe I can ever forgive him and we can ever have an R where his A is not an overriding issue. The only way I can prove that it's possible is by living it. The comments will continue, and I just have to ignore them until they go away or become an actual conversation. We had this conversation when I found out about OW last Oct, and I told him that I wasn't even considering dating, I had way too much on my plate trying to get my life figured out. I have left it at that for the time being.

I hope you're right about H trying to figure out how undo the damage he's done. It probably looked like a huge mountain to him in the beginning. Maybe he's broken it down into chunks, and the first chunks are to get a good job and spend some time together having fun & working toward feeling comfortable w/ each other (he did tell me that's what he wanted to do). As time goes on hopefully he'll be able to move onto some of the other chunks.

But I keep reminding myself that it is essential that I be patient, so I'm keeping the cool look on the outside, and still trying to suppress the celebration, since we really do still have a long way to go.

I am about 30 mins from the WA border. We do get alot of liquid sunshine too, but that's usually b/w Nov and Feb/Mar. We do get nice summers most years (August tends to be the most reliable, weather-wise). I'm sure your brother is already bragging to you about all the flowers blooming on this side, while you guys are still shovelling all that white sh*t, so I won't even mention it.

FA

[fooled again]

TAL,

Thank you for your post. I read alot of posts that make me cry too. I suppose I should be grateful for my sitch, as it looks much more hopeful than many. But I feel everyone's pain and frustration too. That is what makes these boards so valuable and helpful - we are a community of people who truly understand what each other is going through.

It is a bittersweet journey, this DBing, and it is hard not to give up. But reading the supporting words from others gives us the strength to keep up the fight, stay positive and keep taking care of ourselves. And that is what will ultimately save us, if not our M. I never want to become a bitter, angry person over what has happened in my M. I am so grateful to have found DBing and this site to help me grow and become a stronger, better person out of this experience.

FA

[micoms]

FA,

We don't get a lot of snow here and when we do it doesn't last long before it's gone. Our 12" was all melted after two or three days.

I don't think we can forget our S's infidelity, but we can forgive it. I agree with spending more and more time together doing fun things will chip away at the wall. Build new memories. How does H like your dog?

I think my W is going into acceptance, she has reconnected with our S's and is awake more now, she doesn't seem depressed as much. Saw her today at meeting with attys. She doesn't want much from the house her knick knacks, cooking stuff and the love seat. I've got to decide if I want to keep the house or sell it. I also have to sell our 57 Chevy. I will meet with her over the weekend to list what she wants. I was hoping she might change her mind, but it doesn't look that way. She said she is going to go without medical insurance as her employer doesn't have good ins. Offered a legal separation where I pay support and she can stay on my ins until she finds a better job with better benefits. She doesn't want that either.

Mike

[fooled again]

Mike,

Funny, I always pictured Ohio as cold.

I know I could never forget my H's A, but I have already forgiven him. I'm not quite sure how to tell him w/out sounding trite - I did say a couple of weeks ago on the phone that I had forgiven him a long time ago, but I'm not sure it registered w/ him as he was thinking about my pro/con list.

H sounded down today. I asked what was wrong and he says it's b/c he will be away (b/c of work) for St. Pats Day - he's Irish so it's always been a big deal for him & his family. D will be dancing most of the day & H will miss it. I wonder if it was also b/c I was going out but didn't say who with specifically, just "out w/ a couple of girls for coffee". H hasn't spoken to his parents in 2 mos, and I've asked if he's called them, but he says not yet. I also wonder if he's worried about calling them for St. Pat's Day. So many things rolling around in his mind, I imagine.

Oh H really likes the dog, offers to come over to let her out when he knows I'm doing something after work or if he's at the house for some reason or other. I'm glad I gave him keys, since I think it's making him feel more connected to the house. We've talked a bit about projects we want to do around the house in the future - more baby step signs, I guess, both the dog and the house.

I had an interesting meeting tonight w/ an A support group ("the girls" I met for coffee). It was organized by a "life coach" associated w/ BAN (they have a website) and there were two other LBS there. Turns out my sitch was very similar to the coach's sitch and she had an interesting perspective on what I should do. She said that if something goes on long enough w/out any push to change it, it becomes a way of life. She suggested that at some point soon I should have the conversation w/ my H that I won't live like this forever and suggest a timeline for him to come home, say by the end of the year. Her M was saved, she says it's better than it's ever been, but it was hard work. Her H's A lasted 3 yrs, plus 2 yrs to reconcile/heal. It gives me alot to think about.

She did agree about the childhood trauma theory behind MLC, though. She does alot of coaching of people in similar sitch's so I imagine she has a pretty good perspective on that, not just her own M.

I guess at this point you have decided not to try to stop the D, is that right? Or are you just going along w/ your W to see if she will follow through? The fact that she doesn't want much makes me think about the detachment of the MLCer from their previous life. But it is encouraging about her reconnection w/ S's. Remember, they start w/ kids and work their way up. I'm still hoping things turn around for you before it gets to D day.

FA