Not sure I'm qualified to comment but here goes. I agree with tbone about snooping. I've done my fair share I am ashamed to admit. Since we've been trying I haven't mentioned anything to H. I know the hurt oozes out in ways that I don't realize though.
I decided, and it's still VERY HARD to do, to accept the fact that I can't control what he does. He'll make his own choice and your W will too. As much as we'd like to say hey you keep going the way you're going and you'll regret this someday. Unfortunately they have to figure that out.
All we do by focusing on the yucky part of what they do is make us miserable. Not sure about you, but I've had more than my share of that. Why bring more on?
I tell myself since there isn't anything I can directly do about H's behavior I choose to let him live his drama. And sometimes I have to remind myself that this really is HIS drama. God I sure do hate the OW though.
You've held up so well for so long. Turn it up a notch. Go back to no ILY, no OR talks, lovingly detach, no mention of A or OM, make her miss wonderful you. Easier said than done I know. When you figure out the secret pass it on!!!
Hey, 'thro -- I understand about the email vs. journal - i wonder if it's b/c her j. is just her internal thoughts and email is what she's communicating with others - what you might wish she'd communicat with you?
Yup, if she's got that nagging feeling about "not having enough experience" she has to work that through herself. I'll pray she does it with YOU!
Good job on the R talk! You are doing great! OF COURSE you will be wondering if it's worth it! That's normal! I say the same thing to SBH, but it's a little harder for me to bear the thought of him not thinking I'm worth it. And, as time goes on, I think we both have fewer and fewer of those "wondering" thoughts. Well, I haven't had any in a long time, which makes me happy & thankful.
And, I may not BE a bag (thanks, SBH...), but I do know 1) I have a ton of baggage, and 2) how GREAT it feels to have someone who loves me enough to forgive me for my horrible mistakes and carry on helping me deal with my schtuff...
Hey everyone... Well, not sure if I blew it or not, but I couldn't live with my guilty conscience any longer. I'm honest-Jethro. Lotta good it does me... So, tonight I began feeling paranoid again 'cuz my W went out for a bit (which seemed like too long). Felt the same way last night, but didn't really say anything. Tonight she could tell something was on my mind. I just can't hide anything from her...or perhaps I want her to press me??? In any case, I started by saying she's gonna be mad, but I had to admit to something. So, I told her that I had snooped a couple of times and read that she had seem OM, but lied to me the other night. Her reaction was...interesting... She wasn't happy I snooped, but remained calm. She tried to give me some BS about how she hasn't had contact with OM, that she's been running a couple of times and he's honked his horn at her, but they never talked. Whatever! Contact is contact. So, I told her NEVER to lie to me again...and that I've been lied to enough already. She agreed to tell me if she saw OM again...then apologized a little later in the conversation.
I also apologized for snooping and was very frank about admitting it was wrong. I asked her if she was mad and she said no, but disappointed. Ouch, I hate that word. That's one of those ones my mom used on me when I was a kid. Hell, I'd rather she yell at me...
In any case, I'm not sure what she's really thinking. She did seem kind of understanding, which threw me off. But I'm not sure she's really telling me what she's thinking. We didn't talk about it too long. BTW, Char, I did offer to setup a password if it would make her feel better... She didn't respond.
So, lately things seem to be dredging up for me quite a bit and I'm not really sure why. The last few weeks have been brutal. I've tried to put on a happy face, tried to shut up, but "things" keep happening to bring us back to an R talk. Kind of like external events that are reminders to the two of us of her A. In a way, for me I think these events are catalysts to drive me through some post-A evolutionary process...like I'm feeling that last of the real shi!!y feelings and just working the worst of them out of my system. My W, on the other hand, although seemingly very supportive, may be getting burned out. This is not good...and I'm not sure how to handle it really. I can't help this nagging feeling in the back of my head that's telling me she's not being honest with her feelings...at least in how they are conveyed to me. I still feel like she thinks I'm just a good friend and will always be so...that she's missing out on "true love."
Damn. There is just so much sh!t to sift through...so much...
Quoting SBH:everyone after age 30 has a lot of baggage
Yeah. It was bad enough at 20!
Quoting KAW:Sorry I missed all that you went thru here lately, but I don't believe I could have offered anything of value above the great advise you had already received.
Ah...KAW, my friend. No prob. You've had your hands full.
Quoting LR23:"Put one foot in front of the other...and soon you'll be walking very far."
Dang it, LR, now you've got that song stuck in my head! Besides, are you sure that was Rudolf? I thought it was Santa Clause is Coming to Town!
Quoting longhaul:Go back to no ILY, no OR talks, lovingly detach, no mention of A or OM, make her miss wonderful you.
This might be the answer...but I'm not entirely sure. In my situation, doing some of this will likely help.
Quoting SBH-SAM:Yup, if she's got that nagging feeling about "not having enough experience" she has to work that through herself. I'll pray she does it with YOU!
Yes, I have no control and it's her deal to work out. This should be my mantra (which is something KAW recommended I do when I found out about her A).
Hi, Jethro...hmmmm..a post at 3:22 am in my world (if that's the real time you posted - sometimes these time stamps seem off to mee) would mean a sleepless, anxiety filled night...hope it was something better than that...
It is Santa Clause Is Coming To Town! That's one of my favorite ones...That song, in particular.
Hey...I'm going to say this again, because really, it has been working for me & Lostlove...Your whole last post was worry worry, negative negative. Tell us 3 good things about your R with W. Tell us 3 good things you've noticed about her. Or some good things you've felt. And make sure you're telling her.
Everyone is right - if she DID fall in love with you way back when, your best bet is to act the way you did way back when. Think about how you treated her, what your "mental attitude" was (probably Positive!), how much you looked forward to seeing her, how much you implicitly trusted you to be looking forward to seeing you. ASK her about her feelings of being "just friends" if you need to, about what she felt when you first got together, what she WAS attracted to that allowed her to be more than "just friends" with you when you crossed that boundary. Tell her the things that attracted you to her, and the things that still attact you to her. Etc, etc, maybe blah blah blah. But, better than all this wondering, mind-reading, second-guessing, negativity!
You're the one who recommended the 8 ways to happiness book (which I haven't actually taken time to read yet...) - I know you understand these theories in that intelligent mind of yours! Put them to work for you, dude!
My 3 things for today:
1) Woke up and didn't feel that bad (sore throat is definitely getting better)
2) Got kids ready by myself and made it to Sunday school on time! (SBH exhausted from painting church on Friday & Saturday nights)
3) Got to take ANOTHER nap, which helps the sore throat situation even more!
Try it, Jethro. It'll be good for you. It'll build your character. You'll be a better person for it. I'll be very disappointed in you if you don't. Oh, don't worry about it. I'll just do it myself. Just go on and do what you need to do. I'll take care of it. I just want the best for you, you know. I try and try and you never seem to appreciate all I do for you. Hmmmmm...I don't have adolescents yet, so I don't have an endless supply of guilt-inducing phrases...but that's not bad for a rookie, huh?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who seems to be going through a bit of a rough patch. (Wait, that sounds bad...I'm not GLAD anyone else is!!! ) At least you and your W are TALKING about stuff. I just seem to be spinning my wheels.
I'm feeling spurts of suspician. Based on very little but my own nagging sense that things aren't "right". I too wonder if not only H, but I am settling for something like "good friends" vs a passionate M.
Oy this is hard...Thank goodness we're all here for each other.
And SAM, I know you haven't made the direct suggestion to me, but I think I'll join you and LL with the "3 positive things", I could really use a perspective change myself right now!
Quoting SBH-SAM:Hi, Jethro...hmmmm..a post at 3:22 am in my world (if that's the real time you posted - sometimes these time stamps seem off to mee) would mean a sleepless, anxiety filled night...hope it was something better than that...
You're right...although you're two hours ahead of me...
Quoting SBH-SAM:Everyone is right - if she DID fall in love with you way back when, your best bet is to act the way you did way back when.
This one is tough because we "fell in love" when we were 15 years old! You know how she "fell in love" with me? We had been good friends for a few months (although I wanted more and she admittedly didn't) and her friend became interested in me. Jealousy?
In any case, I think she felt this "in love" feeling for a couple of years and that's it...and I DO think she loved me. We've always had a connection (felt it the first time we ever talked), I've always felt "in love" with her, but she would argue that she M me because of how comfortable she feels with me...and that it's more of a friendship. Friendship...friendship...friendship...blah, blah, blah. I've also been pretty consistent personality-wise over the years...although I have "evolved" (because now I'm just more mellow). She, on the other hand, has changed. Not sure how to really answer this, SBH-SAM.
Quoting SBH-SAM:I'll be very disappointed in you if you don't. Oh, don't worry about it. I'll just do it myself. Just go on and do what you need to do. I'll take care of it. I just want the best for you, you know. I try and try and you never seem to appreciate all I do for you.
Yeow!
Quote: SB: "I'm feeling spurts of suspician. Based on very little but my own nagging sense that things aren't "right". I too wonder if not only H, but I am settling for something like "good friends" vs a passionate M."
SBH-SAM: "But, better than all this wondering, mind-reading, second-guessing, negativity!"
Okay ladies...I wanted to address both these quotes in one. Yes, I've somehow been wrapped up in a LOT of pain lately. I don't really know why, but it's eating me up...and driving me crazy. Hell, I feel like I'm gonna have a flippin' anxiety attack. What is this!?!? I KNOW what I need to do...I think. I guess I'm at an impass. You see, I don't trust my W. I just don't. We know why and it was confirmed in what she wrote in her e-mail. I (and she) can justify her actions and I can see it from her point of view, but the fact still remains that she is NOT open with me. She is very open with Divorcee...in ways that she needs to be with me. Maybe it will take time, I don't know. I just cannot tolerate having an R with someone that does not tell me how they're feeling. I know this is my deal and I know I need to get past it. I'm just having a difficult time with it right now. I assume, SB, this is where you stand???
Odd, I guess. When DBing we're told not to focus on what's being said, but on our S's actions. Maybe I am too focused on what's being said rather than her actions...because her actions do suggest she's committed. Perhaps I need to go back to this...
Quoting SBH-SAM:Tell us 3 good things about your R with W.
Okay, I will begin to do this...
1) W finally told me a few things on her mind yesterday that she's been holding back. 2) W told me she thinks we need to go on a little vaca together...just the two of us...to spend some quality time together. 3) She isn't mad at me about snooping, and hasn't said much about it at all. And still, after I told her, she cuddled me on the couch while we watched a show on TV. 4) She continues to want to get stuff for our house, which demonstrates how she's trying to make a comfortable home for herself and us.
Well, yesterday, I finally told my W I forgave her. She thanked me. I do forgive her...it's just the trust...the trust...
Oh, Jethro...I'm so sorry you're having a hard time. You and SBH seem to be in similar places. Though I hope he isn't suspicious of me. I'm not doing anything except taking care of our kids and sleeping lately (by myself!!!).
One time SBH came home early from work but I was expecting the guy for the propane tank and I called the propane tank guy's name (DO NOT KNOW WHY - NEVER a good idea!!!). John said something like, "are you sleeping with [whateverhisnamewas]?" - this was when S3.5 was a baby, and I said, "Yeah - I tell him I'm going to sleep - you watch the baby for me!!!" THat was pre-A, of course. I can't really joke about that stuff anymore...
Anyway, Your positive stuff is really good - such a contrast between what you compalain about in her verbal communications, as you pointed out. Interesting, but I know it doesn't necessarily mean you can trust her, or necessarily improve your attitude...
Are you guys in C? Any good books on "marrying your 1st love?" or something like that? It's got to be a common difficulty, that wondering if there might be more. I still don't believe there is, but some people come to different conclusions...
Keep up the 3 things - GOOD JOB!!!!!!!!!
If there was a gold star graemlin, I'd give you one!
jethro, I haven't taken the time to read through your sitch (sorry, very tired and depressed today...). When did your wife leave and when did she come back and what if anything did you do/not do that prompted her to come back?
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Hi, Jethro...doing the positive thing helps..each day when I wake up I try to think of some positive ideas for work..I might start doing it for my m also. Positive generates positive..or something like that. I can't really speak about the trust thing..I do know it must be very hard to rebuild...keep the faith that your w will want to help you .
Quoting jethro: ... disappointed... Ouch, I hate that word. That's one of those ones my mom used on me when I was a kid. Hell, I'd rather she yell at me...
Does W know this?
Just curious. D5 has an odd fascination with calling herself and everyone else she knows "stupid". Doesn't bug me one bit, though I know she's testing me to see if I think that, and I assure her I don't. Anyway - H 'bout drops his fork everytime he's D's target. H gets MAD!
I told D5 why Daddy gets mad. His Dad called him that once or twice back in the day and it totally shows how that hurts him still.
D has expressed empathy and promises to not do that again.
Me calling H dumb would be like him calling me fat. Ain't gonna happen no matter how mad I get.
So, maybe tell W this, how you'd rather she yell at cha. Maybe share some other stuff about yourself. Maybe make yourself "vunerable"??? Maybe this would help W open up to you? Maybe make herself a little more vunerable?
I think going back to assessing W's actions instead of her words is a good idea. Right? It's about winning YOU back? If you're feeling icky, work on you?
Just some thoughts. Sorry you're hurting.
oh, btw ~ i'm psyched you told her you snooped. does W know about lies by omission? has W agreed to not do that? i worry that you saying "don't ever lie to me again" would serve to distance W like you're some kind of authoritarian? I wonder what she'd say if you asked her about that?
In any case, I started by saying she's gonna be mad, but I had to admit to something. So, I told her that I had snooped a couple of times and read that she had seem OM, but lied to me the other night. Her reaction was...interesting... She wasn't happy I snooped, but remained calm. She tried to give me some BS about how she hasn't had contact with OM, that she's been running a couple of times and he's honked his horn at her, but they never talked. Whatever! Contact is contact. So, I told her NEVER to lie to me again...and that I've been lied to enough already. She agreed to tell me if she saw OM again...then apologized a little later in the conversation.
) At least you and your W are TALKING about stuff. I just seem to be spinning my wheels.