I can understand the cuddling as you have been missing that for some time. I agree that you need to draw a line on that for the time being. Just tell him that you dont feel comfortable in the same bed as him for now and you need some time and space to adjust and see if he really is going to remain faitful to your M.
I think I scared most of you away with my Mega-Long post!!
Anyway, still not sure the best route. My gut says just go with the Kalni-method, upbeat, happy, semi-flirtatious around H and enjoy the good times if/when they come. But my head says H needs firmer consequences for his actions, because my heart will really take a beating if we flirt and have good times and then 3 months down the road I learn he is still cheating on me....
As H left 15 minutes ago he hugged the kids. They each wrapped themselves around a leg and tried not to let him go. He told them ILY and hugged them. Then he came and hugged me and said, I love you, too. He said it, not me! I said, I know, me too (role reversal anyone??).
Then I went a little over the top. As he looked back from the door, I said "You are still cute, you know". He said, "You are too." Then I thought he said something so I turned again from the stove (cooking supper for kids and I) and walked toward him. His eyes were filled with tears. So I just said, "Drive safe, let me know you made it back okay". He said okay and left. I didn't watch him go, follow him to the car, any of the stuff I usually do. I looked up from cooking and saw his car going down the road a minute later so he took a little while to leave the driveway I guess.
Then 5 minutes ago, he called and just said, "Well that was hard". I said "What" H said, "Leaving just now". I of course said something dumb "Well, we have been known to move as a family before..." H said, "I know, I know..." Then I tried to cover and just said "You can call whenever you want to talk to the kids and they will see you next Friday. Pretty soon we will all be in Iowa." H said "Okay, talk to you later then."
It was a glimpse of old H. To call right after he left is something that hasn't happened in probably a year....for sure not since I found out about the A in November.
So I think I will go with just not calling or texting him unless it is kid-related. He can come to me. I am not going to send him smiley face or heart or other flirty messages right now and feel like a fool if he is sending the same kind of stuff to someone else...
But over all today was good. Church was good and I spent only a little time w/H since he worked in the basement all day. We had a "normal", calm conversation about doing taxes and the truck he is buying. Time will tell how we proceed.
Can you think of a way that will make him realise you mean business? He NEEDS to realise that, to have a motive to really try this time. If he has gotten away easily in the past he probably believes somewhere in the back of his mind, that this time is no different. I know I would. It's human behaviour.
K
Bbj, this is what I feel right in YOUR sitch... You have been giving him so many chances he thinks he can do this eternally. And could it be that this time it was probably the OW that was demanding that triggered this whole thing. Have you thought of that?
K
PS Sorry if it sounds harsh, in general I agree with your long post. I think you have it right...
First, I agree with Kalni completely. Its a good start but you've been there before.
Second, you are an unbelievably strong woman. I am impressed. Stay calm and centered. Focus on you and not him. He'll come to you. Don't go to him. Show him he needs to make the path home home you his own.
If you might have given or are about to give him mixed messages then so be it. It was not intentional on your part. You can stop trying to be perfect about all this. I am sure your best effort will be more then good enough. We just have to see how long it will be for him to give his best effort to your M.
Kalni, Woog, John, Jeff, Lizzy, Tomato, and the rest of my DB Buddies:
Here is the thing. I agree w/Kalni he needs to "get it" this time. You would think that a person would "get" that you can't just cheat on your wife and move on. And the tricky part is that H mentioned this weekend, "even if THIS (us) doesn't work out, because I don't know yet if it will, I can't be with OW"...so it isn't like he has come back to me 100% even though he says he left OW. He did put his phone (& secret phone) on the counter Friday night. I asked if that was supposed to mean something, and gestured at the phones. He said, "Yeah, it was SUPPOSED to..." I just said "It would be more convincing if your new phone were there too..." He replied that he left it in the truck and sighed like he realized he screwed up...
Anyway don't know why I felt the need to repeat that unless it is to remind me that he thinks he is making efforts (or wants ME to think so), but I don't think they are going far enough. Yet, I know that he isn't sure about us yet with/without the OW, so it isn't like he is going to be crawling in on hands and knees anytime either.
Ok, maybe I am still rambling. My kids are screaming and "fighting" over their toys right now so it is hard to focus. I guess I am looking for suggestions. What would give H the message that I cannot and will not plan a future w/him unless/until he can start proving himself? Esp. since right now he isn't sure he wants to plan one with me? Although knowing him for 16 years, he may feel comfortable NOT deciding b/c he knows that history shows I will always wait around for him......maybe if I said I didn't think I could have a future w/him, or if I even said I wasn't sure I wanted a future w/him, he may feel more inclined to make a decision....
Anyway the point isn't to force his hand. I want to know how to show him that I cannot and will not plan a future w/him unless and until he can prove himself worthy of being the H I deserve? I don't know if that sounds to arrogant but you get what I mean I'm sure.......
I suppose I could tell him directly, in a letter or an e-mail. The pastor today said a big step in overcoming "niceness" and dealing w/the person who has wronged you is to "name the offense". H knows what he has done, but would it be worthwhile to write him a letter/e-mail just basically stating: Look, I have been thinking a lot this weekend. You have cheated on me, you have lied to me, you have made me promises to work on the M and all the while you were still with OW. I am at the point where I cannot trust what you tell be to be true b/c so often it has not been true... and then go in to how changes need to happen in order for me to trust him again?
I say write it b/c discussions are not effective w/H. He needs to be able to ponder the info. at his own pace, then go back and read it a second or third time for things to really process for him...anyway he has said before that letters work best for communicating major ideas to him. So anyway do I say to him this is what I am unhappy about, and then also say what changes I need from him? Or do I just say what he has done to upset me, then tell him it is his job to restore the trust, etc. Or do I just say I am needing time and space from you right now b/c of what you have done with no mention of restoring my trust in him or restoring our M?? I am at a loss how to do this b/c clearly I haven't been good at setting boundaries or giving consequences in the past...
If it had just happened and we were living together, it would be easier to send a message. I could just move out or tell him to move out. But now we are living apart anyway...once it is time for me to move to Iowa, I could send a message by getting my own place rather than living w/him. But that is still 5-10 weeks away...what can I do NOW to let him know things are not ok? Especially after lettng him back in my bed last night/this morning? I feel like I should somehow address that as well, and explain that it is what I wanted in the moment but now I know it isn't best for me?
I feel like I am totally rambling, I just don't know what action to take. Just going by "after the last resort", where you talk on the phone only about the kids, don't initiate contact, don't spend time alone together, etc. I feel like that would confuse him. Because today and last night I did make small talk, laugh and hang out with him. So to stop doing it today with no explanation would be weird, like I am playing games with him. I want to be more straightforward than that, not overly manipulative??
I'll stop b/c I may be confusing myself at this point Just want concrete examples of how to send message to H that I need clear, consistent proof/reassurance that OW is really gone and I am really a priority before I leave myself vulnerable to him again...
You say don't go to him, he'll come to you. Let him find his path home on his own. (I didn't read that until I posted again). That is what I thought I would be doing if I acted Kalni-like. You know, if I was cheerful and focusing on me and the kids and if he decided to come around, so be it. No pressure, no expectations, and no giddyness if he decided to pay me attention...but then what would I do if he started to hug/kiss/fondle me again, etc??
Anyway I do think that a big part of our problem (also voiced to me by my Individual C) is that H has never really had to feel the consequences of his actions before.....can someone help tell me what that would look like since we live in two different places as it is?
1)I already plan to stop sending the cheerful, random text messages I was sending (like, good luck with the calf today (smiley face icon)).
2)I already plan not to call H unless it is kid related
3)I already plan not to make any physical overtures toward him
But he came over and hugged and kissed me goodbye today and said I love you to me. What do I do in that situation? Push him away before he can hug me? Stand like a statue while he hugs me?? Just nod and smile when he says he loves me? That first night (Fri) when he hugged my head and kissed it I just stood there. Maybe that was the right thing to do but I have responded since then so again I don't know if I should clarify my change of heart...
BobbiJo, Think about this and I'm sure our friends will tell what they think of it. First does anyone think you should thank H for the e-mail and leveling w/ you? It might be important to acknowledge his finally being somewhat honest w/ you, but let him know that trust needs to be rebuilt. Tell him that you understand that he needs time and space, and maybe that is what is best for both you. You realize that he is confused now and you are as well. Has he found an IC yet? I really believe H has a lot of fixing to do before much can be done w/ your M.
I think the 48 hr rule applies for sure right now for you. Refrain from making or executing any sorta decisions right now about how to proceed. Too much smoke has got to clear first. Gabiche? Do all you can to build yourself up during that time.
I agree. Real forward progress on our M can't happen until H gets with an IC to figure out why he is so screwed up. Harsh, but true. He clearly has all kinds of issues and I can't fix that for him, only he can help himself in that arena...
I thought about thanking him for sharing and trying to be, if not encouraging, at least welcoming of his attention/affection/communication....But then I also wonder if that isn't enough. I did send a reply to his e-mail. Maybe I should share that with you guys? I sent it Thursday night/Friday morning, around 1 a.m. Guess I will share it and you can tell me what I did wrong and what to do next......
As he looked back from the door, I said "You are still cute, you know". He said, "You are too." Then I thought he said something so I turned again from the stove (cooking supper for kids and I) and walked toward him. His eyes were filled with tears. So I just said, "Drive safe, let me know you made it back okay". He said okay and left. I didn't watch him go, follow him to the car, any of the stuff I usually do. I looked up from cooking and saw his car going down the road a minute later so he took a little while to leave the driveway I guess.
and what to do next......