I am stopping by b/c you seem to have posted on Charcoal's thread and her H is in the "I need support" forum. He is frustrated and I thought you might be able to help him.
Quoting lostlove: am I really ok with all that has happend?? can I really accept the a (ea?) that h had?? can we really move beyond it or will it forever be there?? will h ever be able to communicate his feelings to me?? does he already?? will I ever be comfortable with the r?? will ow move away and never return?? will there never be another ow?? am I making the right choice for myself in accepting h's discretion?? will I ever stop questioning myself? h? will h ever start telling me he loves me with regularity?? will h ever ask me to once again wear my rings??
LL -- I ask myself so many of these questions too! The rollercoaster isn't just the R rollercoaster, is it? But, our feelings and confidence (in ourselves AND the r), too. The questions are always ebbing and flowing depending on how I'm feeling about myself, my h., work, life, whatever.
I'm working pretty hard at stripping off the layers that just seem to confuse each other and me. I know you've read (and responded) my posts about my past stuff -- I'm addressing a lot of that with the cognitive stuff you guys have been talking about. Trying to focus really clearly on what's about NOW and what's about past (or even future) worries.
Sometimes I start feeling so lost about the future --does it make sense to hold onto this M, will h be faithful, can we move past this, etc. Something that helps in those cases are remembering what's going on today -- not feeling as though I have to make decisions based on future worries.
ah, I'm not helping here! Probably because I can identify too much with your feelings. My 2 cents (and the advice I give to myself)? Strengthen your own mental and emotional health as much as possible -- whatever that takes -- therapy, meditation, etc. and things get much more clear.
Oh, and as to your question of is it h or me? I feel pretty confident in suggesting it's both...not in a bad way but really believing that we feed off of each other even if we're not aware of it.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
in reply to this other stuff about H's ow and ea...
i can say a lot of stuff.
but mainly, the important thing, is that No, it will never "go away". the way you feel about it can change though...
i liked what discorded said
these truths are based on feelings, and as well ALL know feelings change like the wind. one day I feel like a queen, the next like a dog... am I ever a queen or a dog?... no...
so, I just keep aiming for the middle as this phenomenon surrounding feelings affects everything in my M.
I just wish it could be winterish all year round..or rather that h didn't have such a seasonal business...I'm really getting frustrated with him being so busy and being so not around...it used to always bother me but now it bothers me more thing is I used to always complain about it and now I can't or rather don't complain at all.
this all just sucks!!!
I really do wish I knew the whole truth about h's r with ow...I really wish I could just download their every interaction so that I can know and move on from it...but I cannot. why does any of this even matter??? probably because I was not happy before...I kept saying and at times keep saying...I am the one who should have had an a...I am the one with more "justification" for having an a in this r than h is...I just don't understand this...I wish I knew the whole story about this foolishness.
I wish it would all just go away...
I wish I could just put it away...be done with it...believe h...believe that h is working...that he is not avoiding me...that h wants to be home..he says he does..I wish I knew...
ahh but then I wish I could just run away...run away and leave everything and everyone behind...to be free from all responsiblities to anyone but myself...but that I cannot and will not do.
I don't know....I should probably delete this post as it doesn't make much sense and is not very productive but wth it's how I feel in the moment.
Don't know what to say. You got yourself painted into a corner here gurl.
You do know that you are never going to know for sure what went on between your H and OW? I mean, are you ever really going to believe what your H tells you about this? That sucks, I know. I'm in the same place, maybe we all are; I dunno.
Maybe we just need to forget all this crap and go play with our babies.
Brought to you by a preadapted, preeminent analysis engine, and therein lies the root of all evil.
if you are aware of the fact that your w has a new tendancy toward having anxitey attacks as a result of the trauma you caused by having an a and leaving her...and on occassion she doesn't feel well but most often keeps the little stirrings to herself...
if you are not in a place (meaning time of day, alertness, etc) to hear her out and have something to offer in return...why the hell would you ask about it???
the other morning after eating pancakes with h and kiddos I felt a tad naseas...yes some anxiety due to my own stupidity of looking into ow's open house bit...when I get naseaus now h immediately questions "anxiety?" a little I say and leave it at that knowing he doesn't like to hear the truth.
so then tonight while sitting on the deck h out of no where asks how I've been feeling....if I've gotten sick....
I let him know a little here and there but no big deal...
h asks if I'm eating...yes says I....
H asks why the occassional not feeling well times...
I express to him that for the most part I just push it away...but there are times when I cannot...I am lost in the what was...what is...what will be...
I know the what was shouldn't matter...
but it does....
I feel like I need to know more about his r with ow...
I explain how I feel about it...how I thought about it one way while he was gone because I had been given one set of information but now that I have been given some more information I see it differently...differently being that I'm having a difficult time accepting that it was not at least somewhat physical...
h gets frustrated...
again the same question...
a question he feels has been answered...
h sits in silence...
can only say I'm sorry....
I am left feeling empty...alone...unloved...just the wife he had to come home to...
I let h know that I have bad thoughts of ow...that I'd like to go to her open house and hurt her...or simply do damage to her lawn (I could without her knowing it was intentional too I listen to h and know what damages lawns) so that she would fire him and the connection to her would be gone...h says that would be productive now wouldn't it...
h doesn't understand how I feel...
h doesn't understand that despite the fact that he's home...he's left this woman believing he's in love with her...
h says nothing...
I let h know that it's hurtful to me that she is out there may not have him but knows that he is in love with her...she can say that...my h is in love with her...that is not something that I can say...yes I can say he loves me..he cares about me...but that he chooses to be with me...that he is in love with me...that I cannot say...
h as is typical has nothing to say....
duh!!! cave man....walk over to your w hug her and say I love you LL....and I'll never hurt you again.
no, h says nothing other than...I'm going to bed...you want another pepsi??
so I decide I'd like to go out...I gotta get out a here....h still nothing to say....I go to the car and even start it...but decide I don't want to shop...where would I go...to the bar...gee that would be productive...nice attractive woman sitting alone in a bar...been there done that...would only add fuel to the neglect I feel from h.
so I come in and don't know now what to do...h of course is asleep..or getting pretty close to it.
perhaps h should just leave....he makes it very obvious to me that I don't need him...he leaves before we wake up...he doesn't get home till after dd goes to sleep and shortly before son goes to sleep and guess what he himself then just goes to sleep...so then what do I need him for??? what does he add to this r??? what is he giving me now that he wouldn't be giving me if he weren't here???
look back and see....LL had more of a life when h didn't live here...LL had more free time...more time to herself...despite h's seasonal business...he was here alone taking care of the kids all day every sunday...and at least two nights a week from 5pm on.....now h doesn't get home most nights til 7 and is in bed by 9...and sundays?? well he's here...but you guessed it....he's not taking care of the kids I am...he's working in the yard....
I'm frustrated with this life...I was frustrated with it before....I adjusted...told myself as I often do now...we have a nice house..the kids have all they want and need...we can entertain...we can vacation...h doesn't have much to offer us because he's busy working to give to us...sorry....why should I settle for that "princess" life now...I didn't want it then....I want a r...I want a friend...I want someone with some energy left at the end of the day to play a game of darts with me...or sit and play cards or talk or heaven forbid make out like teenagers...or just laugh..or wrestle or something for christ sake...
I think it's time for LL to send herself some more flowers...she is special after all...despite the fact that h isn't giving much...she's still giving more...she makes him lunch to take to work everyday...she's helping get some yard work done during the day while the kiddos play.
looks like LL needs another project...
emt course starts next month...that's two nights a week and some saturdays...
paint master bedroom and master bath
paint dd's bedroom
look for new dresser and mirror for dd's bedroom
look for headboard for dd's bedroom
get back to the gym
start scheduling individual sessions with c after the joint session next week.
go back to expecting and giving nothing in the way of love to h...
I put a note in h's lunch today "I love and appreciate all that you do for us" h didn't acknowledge it...said lunch was good thank you...I asked if he ate it all...yes he said..did you empty the bag...yes he said...since your not saying anything perhaps you need to clean out your truck...oh yeah...I got your note...that was nice...I should have called you right away but employee was there...
so friggen what if the employee was there..your damn right you should have called right away..doesn't mean you'd have to get all mushy in front of him...all you'd have to say is thanks for lunch and the special treat or something like that..wtf is wrong with that??? na instead completely ignore it...make your w feel stupid for doing it and ensure that it will be a long while before she expresses anything to you in such a way again!!!
I hope you know that the last paragraph is completely what I'd like to say and not at all what I said...I said no problem when he said thank you and that was that.
I'm annoyed once again and do not want to go to bed...yes I'm tired and should go to sleep but I do not wish to go to sleep in my bed while h is there...I wish he would go back to sleeping on the couch (well on occassion he falls asleep there) then at least I could get a good nights rest in my bed.
LL -- I'm sorry that you are in such a rough spot right now! Anxious to the point of nausea? Girlfriend, we've got to get you back on solid ground!
Quoting lostlove: if you are aware of the fact that your w has a new tendancy toward having anxitey attacks as a result of the trauma you caused by having an a and leaving her...and on occassion she doesn't feel well but most often keeps the little stirrings to herself...
if you are not in a place (meaning time of day, alertness, etc) to hear her out and have something to offer in return...why the hell would you ask about it???
So, I read your exchange with h. He was sensitive (alert?) enough to recognize that you haven't been well and asks about it. You were straightforward in your response to him about the reasons.
You say "h gets frustrated" -- what does that mean exactly??
Does he say, "I'm frustrated with this! I've answered this question already!"? Or, are you interpreting his silence/answers/body language?
He sits in silence and then says he's sorry. (he "can only say I'm sorry")
LL, in terms of a VERBAL response, what else CAN he say to you? I'm sorry actually sounds like a lot....are you hoping that he'll ask you how he can help you with your feelings?
I'm not trying to be a pain here...what would you need to hear to feel better?
Quote: I am left feeling empty...alone...unloved...just the wife he had to come home to...
Same question -- what could h do to make you feel differently? I've seen this before in some of your posts -- the sense (??) that h HAD to come home as opposed to choosing to come home?
Quote: h doesn't understand how I feel...
h doesn't understand that despite the fact that he's home...he's left this woman believing he's in love with her...
Is he in love with her? Has he told you that he is or was?
I can understand the frustration with this...it hurts like hell to know that our h's gave what we thought was OURS to someone else and that somehow, the ow get to KEEP it -- the feeling that our h's were "in love" with them but are somehow "stuck" (??) with us. What would it take to convince you that h is not STUCK with you? (Sage, ask yourself the same question).
Quote: she can say that...my h is in love with her...that is not something that I can say...yes I can say he loves me..he cares about me...but that he chooses to be with me...that he is in love with me...that I cannot say...
Why do you believe that ow has your h's "in love" feelings and that you do not?
Quote: h as is typical has nothing to say....
duh!!! cave man....walk over to your w hug her and say I love you LL....and I'll never hurt you again.
so...have you read "men are from mars"?? I've been listening to it and was going to suggest it to you...parts of it are a bit over the top imho, but, I gotta say that a lot of it has hit home for me...if you haven't read it, I'd strongly suggest it to you.
Supposedly, on "mars" no one offers help...it's only given if requested. What if you had said to h "I'm not blaming you for the way that I feel and I know that you can't solve this for me. Would you give me a hug? I know I would find that reassuring."
Quote: look back and see....LL had more of a life when h didn't live here...LL had more free time...more time to herself...despite h's seasonal business...he was here alone taking care of the kids all day every sunday...and at least two nights a week from 5pm on.....now h doesn't get home most nights til 7 and is in bed by 9...and sundays?? well he's here...but you guessed it....he's not taking care of the kids I am...he's working in the yard....
Time to carve off some free time for LL ... I know that you mention that later in your post.
Quote: I think it's time for LL to send herself some more flowers...she is special after all
That she IS!!!
Quote: I put a note in h's lunch today "I love and appreciate all that you do for us" h didn't acknowledge it...said lunch was good thank you...I asked if he ate it all...yes he said..did you empty the bag...yes he said...since your not saying anything perhaps you need to clean out your truck...oh yeah...I got your note...that was nice...I should have called you right away but employee was there...
So...here's the dilemma -- you made a lovely gesture and expected a particular response from h. As impossible as it is, can you make the gestures w/o expecting something from him?
Interspersed in your post -- between the lines of hurt and disappointment -- you find some of your own solutions -- get a life for LL, start new projects, etc. I guess all I'd add is what if you tried to let go of the expecation and resentment of h -- the belief that you are doing much more to foster the r than he is? (I'm not saying that you're not -- just saying what if you moved away from that resting place?)
What are you going to do for YOU today, LL?
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
You say "h gets frustrated" -- what does that mean exactly??
he's tired of the question...says so...doesn't know what to say..sit's in silence...offers nothing..get's agitated...tries to keep from defending himself in his angry state...frustration is what I see and hear and feel...but then I also read into his silence, searching...searching for something...perhaps battling...should I tell her or not...
Quote: LL, in terms of a VERBAL response, what else CAN he say to you? I'm sorry actually sounds like a lot....are you hoping that he'll ask you how he can help you with your feelings?
how 'bout...sorry I hurt you LL...I'm sorry I did this to us LL...I love you LL...
Quote:
Is he in love with her? Has he told you that he is or was?
yes he was in love with her...he told me so...I do not know if he still has those feelings or not...I would bet that at this point he's still got something for her..
Quote: Why do you believe that ow has your h's "in love" feelings and that you do not?
because very simply...she does have them and I do not..he did make time each day to call her because he wanted to..me I might get a call at the end of the day..sure there are some days when he'll call earlier or a few times..h also made time a few days a week to trot off to her house or to go out to lunch with her...and me he can barely find time for a 2min phone call to??
fill in the gaps...it's easy to see...h is/was in love with her...I am just his wife..the mother of his children..sure he can have a decent life with me but "in love" nope!!!
Quote: Supposedly, on "mars" no one offers help...it's only given if requested. What if you had said to h "I'm not blaming you for the way that I feel and I know that you can't solve this for me. Would you give me a hug? I know I would find that reassuring."
how's this one for ya...h I know you may not want to but if when I get to feeling this way it would help me if you were to hug me and say I do love you LL....
I've explained this to h too many friggen times and still...he says nothing...does nothing...either he's an idiot or he just doesn't love me the way a man should love a woman (oh there's another one of those lovely statements I heard from him)
Quote: ..here's the dilemma -- you made a lovely gesture and expected a particular response from h. As impossible as it is, can you make the gestures w/o expecting something from him?
become a waw??? sure no problem...I'll just keep on doing what I do...loving h...getting little in return..feeling neglected...letting it go..expecting nothing...til one day I just give up...sounds good to me..infact I think that's the path I'm already on.
here let's see...I'll show you what kind of a man h is...he's a business owner...service to him is number 1, it's huge...if a customer calls..he calls back that very day..if they need something fixed even if it's not his problem or doing..he fixes it right away...a customer just sent him and email yesterday...just sending in their payment for the season and la di da...wants their yard mowed sprinklers turned on and beds mulched by sat...uhm hello?? any way..you can be damn sure that h will be there and it will be done by sat...h realizes the importance of doing things for your customers..realizes going the extra mile ensures they will keep him year after year...they will refer him to another customer...etc....
and yet...h does not go the extra or even what should be..to ensure that his w is happy that her needs are being met...etc...why should the customers get more respect and more commitment from him than I do...no wonder lil ole ow thought he was so friggen wonderful...cause he probably jumped every time she called for something...oh what a nice guy that guy is...he's so considerate and reliable...he goes the extra mile to show us we are valued customers...we are important and our business is appreciated...
w ah screw her...she should just know I appreciate her, love her, that she's important to me etc.
..... :P
