Sandi's Here in Piecing from Almost WAW

[sandi2]

Hi DomR,

Well, (lol) it seems one of us are going to have to just end part of the argument. Anyway, about the depression, I will agree that I believe it is still partly due to my environment b/c things can't seem to get done around the house/yard as I would like. I can't do the things I once could. My MR is not 100% where I want it to be (but lots better). There are some major issues going on in my grown grandson's life that the family is very upset about, and don't forget that both of my children are disabled, plus depression is one of the the by-products (if that is a correct term) of Fibromyalgia. So, yeah, I think all of that together has an affect on me.

People who enter MLC, usually do so, because of themselves. They are adjusting to a new phase in their lives; they are depressed because of it; they would hit that depression, whether their spouse was in their lives or not. Once they (ideally) adjust to the fact that, yes, they really are (40/50/...) years old.. their depression goes away.

I think I have pretty well explained in my past post and to the one I recently sent to Ann or maybe it was Forrest, that I was entering a new phase in my life and was depressed about it. I think it was a lot of just "about me". I don't know if it would have happened if my S had been in my life or not. The fact that my depression did not go away, I believe, is b/c of the factors that I described above.

But, the thing is, I am beginning to feel better mentally. My doctor is working with me on meds for depression. I do believe that the things in my life affect it, but I also believe I have clinical depression due to the Fibro. I did ask him to take me off the Zoloft and he has put me on Wellbutrin. The main reason was b/c I immediately starting eating the walls down and gaining so much weight so quickly (that wasn't helping the depression) and I could tell that any sexual feelings were leaving fast. So, under the circumstances, I didn't think the Zoloft was the answer for me. I am hoping the Wellbutrin will do the trick.

As far as what Forrest had to say about the woman sort of pushing the man to do things.......I guess I just don't get it or I plainly can't agree. I know she has a lot of affect on the H.....that part I agree with....just as he has a lot of affect on her (i.e. part of my depression over 40 yrs).

I think I remember from a post a long time ago that you said you were not that religious, and forgive me if I have confused you with someone else......but sweetie, I have been raised in the church to believe the H is the head of the home and that he is to be the leader. The W is to lean on him.......he is to be the strong one and the woman is the weaker one according to the Bible. Perhaps this is why I have a problem with what you and Forrest are saying or perhaps I am not fully understanding (which is quite possible) what you are telling me.

According to the website that I encouraged (or tried) so many folks at the time I got kicked off, "What Makes Her Happy", the author backs up what I have just said. He places the responsibility of the M on the H. I have not read the book....just the emails he sends. BTW, he doesn't sound religious at all....lol.

To be as honest as I know how, I believe my resentment comes from a long line of things that I have talked about at various times to different people. I have not told everything b/c it would take 40 yrs to do that....lol. However, as I recently tried to tell another young man, a W needs her H to be an alpha male and if he is too gentle, sweet, kind, and gives in to her at every turn to the place she is calling all the shots....she will walk all over him. When I married my H......he was that type of young man. He was too gentle and sweet and he was not a leader in any sense of speaking. He still depended on his mother to tell him what to do and not do and of course that was what she did with the entire family, and I did not appreciate it one bit. That started one of our main problems and lasted almost until she died. He always placed his mother above me (which I resented) and when she got old and sick and would not go into the nursing home, he would take care of her instead of working full time like he needed to. She also took advantage of that b/c everytime he went to work, she would call him to go to her house. By the time she died, our MR had almost died along with her. My H's health began to break, probably due to his stress he was under. He underwent heart surgery not long after his mother passed away and he really hasn't been the same since she died. He has to stay on anti-depression meds all the time. I have been told this is common for people that have heart problems. I know he is a "worrier" and he really worrys over our kids and their health problems, our grown grandson, and of course our own money problems, my health, etc.

I don't know how I got off into all of this......I think I started out trying to explain something to you....lol.

Oh yes, I remember, I was disagreeing with you....what a shock..lol. Seriously, I do agree that the wife/mother can make or break a home. She sets the tone for the home. That is why my family was so thrown by my behavior during the time that I refer to as my MLC. When I told my son that I was thinking about leaving his dad, he flipped out! My daughter, mother and sibling had already seen the signs in me. So, Maybe it was MLC....maybe it wasn't, but I won't argue about it anymore b/c I feel that I am so much better and that I have fought the battle. As I said, I know that I am still fragile and I will have to be careful not to fall back into that situation again with the on-line snare. But, thank God, I don't have those horrible unsettled feelings that I was experiencing when I was wanting men to flirt with me. I have no desire whatsoever for that now. In fact, I have taken the advice "imLin" told me that she did when she played any game on the internet that had a chat board out by the side of it.....she just doesn't chat! That is good advice and if I know it is a woman, then I feel that we can say a few words to each other, but I have learned the signals that men give to find out if you are the type they can go farther with (if you know what I mean), so I avoid that for sure! Don't want to go there again. I have played very few games on line since all of that other stuff happened.

think what we are both saying, is that "you women" have to tell the man in your life, how YOU can be happy.
[and for the specific case of your husband, that involves him getting up out of his chair and doing things with you

I will agree to that part, only I will tell you as I told Forrest, I just am out of ideas and energy. My poor H is out of energy also. He collapes at the end of the day......as I do. So, I am open to suggestions. I knew what I wanted to be happy in our early M, but he would not do it. Nothing I asked or tried to encourage......nothing came from it. My post is already too long or I would try to explain about that more, but if you have followed my post to others, you have a good idea of most of it.

I know it must sound dreary to most of you, but right now I think we are just trying to get back on track with each other. I think he is still giving me space and time. Things are sooooo much better and now I am beginning to feel the first bit of encouragement. You know, Dom, I did not have any of that in the beginning!

Sorry, for such a long post. Couldn't sleep well, got up early, and found your post to me......so (lol) I had the time. Hope it doesn't bore you to tears.

Thanks friend for hanging in here with me.

Sandi

[Dom R]

... sweetie, I have been raised in the church to believe the H is the head of the home and that he is to be the leader. The W is to lean on him.......he is to be the strong one and the woman is the weaker one according to the Bible.

I think that you are "reading into" that passage. You make it sound like the woman is "commanded to be" weaker. However, that is not so. The only command in that biblical passage is to the husband. The husband is commanded to treat her [with extra consideration, as if she is weaker]
Please look it up.
1 Peter, 3:7

Reguardless... even if you stick by honoring your husband as "the head of the home"... that doesnt mean you cant ask him for your needs.

Being "the leader", doesnt mean "everyone else has to be silent".
A good leader, listens to what those who follow him need.

To do that... he has to fully understand your needs. Only way that happens, is if you tell him. He is commanded to serve... Not "to be a mindreader".

Yes, "you've told him already".
However, as I, and others have told you.. you arent telling him your critical needs, in a way he really understands how important it is.
Once he understands, it is his responsability to do something about it.
However, making him understand it is important, is your responsability.

It cant be his.. because how can he know "it's important for him to understand something", if the biggest thing he "isnt understanding", is, "This is important" !!!

[sandi2]

I think that you are "reading into" that passage. You make it sound like the woman is "commanded to be" weaker. However, that is not so. The only command in that biblical passage is to the husband. The husband is commanded to treat her [with extra consideration, as if she is weaker]
Please look it up.
1 Peter, 3:7

No-no, I didn't mean it like that at all. Sorry I left that impression. I was using more of the King James writing and didn't quote it.

I have been reading another lady's thread that sounded like her H and mine are a lot alike. She talks about how slow he is in making decisions, in thinking, everything. I felt for her.

In regards to the H being the head of the home, the leader, etc. and the W being the "weaker vessel".......my personal belief is that God gave the man a role and the woman a role to play in this life. I know that isn't good terms to use, but just bear with me. I believe that each gender is equal in God's eyes. But he gave us different roles or parts to have in our M. The man is not more important than the woman. I think that women have proven over the past just how strong they can be. To think we may even have a female president when there was a time in our own country the women couldn't vote! Well.....better not get off into politics, Bible discussion is enough...lol.

Believe it or not, I actually agree (I think) with you where the man is to treat the W as though she is weaker than he is. Physically, we are weaker and therefore the H should protect his W and his children. In the beginning, the man was to be the "breadwinner" and the W was to be the homemaker. Well, we know what has happened to our world since that time. Personally, I think women are spread so thin trying to "have it all" and be a career woman and be a wife and mom........it is all just too much and it will hurt R's in the end. I think that is why we are seeing so much trouble in younger M's today.....not enough time left in a day to spend with each other and family time. So, the M starts to crumble. Anyway, I still believe the man is to be the head leader and the wife the co-leader (especially with the kids).

I won't argue the other things you said Dom, I just don't know what to do to get it across to him what my needs are. The only way I know is to tell him and that doesn't seem to work, so give me suggestions. I don't know anymore.

I have figured something out after so many years. You know I told you how one of my biggest needs was for him to go to bed with me every night.....but he wouldn't do it unless he wanted sex. I know now that I needed emotional intimacy and he honestly did not know how to give it. He needed sex, but since he would go to bed with me when he wanted sex......I resented it terribly. If he had went to bed with me on a regular basis and we could have talked and snuggled and let it lead up to the sex....I would have been fine with it. But his way would be to go to bed and immediately start with the sex act. I tried for so many years to get him to understand what I needed and he acted as though he just didn't get it or didn't care.

I was talking to my mom about this and she reminded me that his parents did not sleep together and maybe he just did not grow up seeing that role model of the wife and husband in the M. My parents, on the other hand, would sit and talk about their day or what was going on in some other stuff, then they would watch TV or play games with us kids, then the TV was turned off and the entire family went to bed at the same time. My parents would lay in bed and whisper (sometimes I could hear my mom giggle) and I knew (after I was much older) that they were probably making love some of those times....but it made me feel secure knowing they had that type of M.

In our home, our TV is never turned off......ever! Not at night, not when we leave home.....never. That is him. At night, the lights are not turned off in the kitchen and a lamp is left on in the room where he sleeps, plus the TV. Weird...huh? When he leaves the house for work after I'm gone...he leaves the kitchen light on and of course all the TV's (we only have two). His parents lived in a two bedroom small house with the bathroom between the bedrooms. Two double beds were in each room. They had 4 boys. That is probably why his parents did not sleep together (I think that was his mom's idea, but don't know for sure). They left lights on and they allowed the boys to sit up and watch TV (after they were teenagers) as long as they wanted, even though they had school the next day. I don't know if he ever saw his parents "really" talk together. So, I told all of that to say that I think what we see played out before us growing up is what we expect our M to be like....but it seldom is b/c we M someone that came from a different family.

Anyway, if you have suggestions, let me know. I never did get into the Marriage Builder workbook b/c of his hours lately and b/c I just couldn't seem to get into the mood, to be honest, and he seems to be settled back into his comfortable ways again. As Forrest would say, "in that chair"!

I know this is long (as usual), but I'm going now to watch a boring TV show with my H. (lol)

Talk to you later.

Sandi

[Forrest Gump]

I am trying to keep up.

When did I ever say "Its the woman's job?" I specifically said "You posted.. You get my vote!"

You are the one "looking for answers!".

For me I latch in on the emotion of the event. Or to make it more clear the "CRAZY". I can relate to that. I can see it. Trust me if I call you crazy you have my full attention.

Sorry to just respond to 1 tiny part but I have really gotta sit and read everything you have posted Sandi2.

[sandi2]

Dearest Forrest,

Huh??? What????

I am trying to keep up with you! I went back over the post on this thread to see where you said what.......I don't know.

As far as what Forrest had to say about the woman sort of pushing the man to do things.......

Were you referring to that I said to DomR? That was my summary of what I gathered you were telling me. Have I misunderstood you that badly?

Man, we are a pair! I was asking for suggestions b/c you kept telling me to do something to get my H out of that chair. As I told you....I'm out of ideas.

I have to go back over what you say and what DomR says to remember b/c both of you are telling me that it is me that will have to do something to charge my H up and get him to know my needs. (Again that is a summary) DomR (my counselor/friend.....lol) dissects and analyzes me and my stitch. I love him but sometimes he gets me a little nuts (lol), don't tell him I said that......I know he won't read this. He thinks I never was in MLC and I try to explain to him I was selfish and self-centered and it was all about me. I was in a "fog", etc. Oh well.

It is almost getting funny now. When I wake up before 3:00 a.m. I get like this.

I think I gave you the link to my very first post that told my stitch as to why I came on board, etc. As far as you going back to read everything.....it would take a while and you would see where I repeat myself a lot. A bad habit of mine.

I dont' remember you calling me crazy, but you could have b/c I was for a while. At least, something was seriously wrong, but that is why I think I had the MLC symptoms.

Are you getting me confused with somebody else? It's ok, b/c I do the same thing....lol. We are going to be good friends Forrest b/c I remember the very first post I read that you had posted to somebody else and I was so mad at you I wanted to reach through the computer and grab you (I think I've told you that already....repeating myself again), but then I would read other places and think you had it right on!

You can give me a hit up beside the head.....I can take it, but at the same time, I may come back swinging! (lol)

Oh well, maybe we can get in "sync" one of these days. Let's keep trying anyway.

Sandi

[lodo]

Hey Sandi,

I just wanted to let you know that I've found your threads very helpful to read through. Of course it would be better for me if my W would read them and reconsider being with OM, but what you've written has helped me realize the ways she's in pain too and why I need to respect that.

lodo

[sandi2]

Thank you, that really makes me feel good to think maybe I have helped someone else that is going through a bad time of it.

[lodo]

Hi Sandi,

Don't mean to hijack your thread and you don't need to answer this if you don't want to, but I get so confused about how to properly give W space and you seem pretty willing to weigh in with your opinions.

A perfect example is happening now. She is deeply conflicted. Asked to end things, so when I said goodbye she said she wanted to give things a chance. When I let her move back in, she told me she didn't think it would work the minute she walked in the door. She stayed for a couple weeks, even brought the rest of her stuff back, only to leave 3 hours later (after admitting she was still attracted to OM). She said she needed counseling and asked to wait to talk until after 1 or 2 sessions.

So I haven't contacted her and am working on detaching, but she sent an email today worded as if I won't have anything to do with her. She says we "need to talk." The last 2 times she said that was asking for D, only to change her mind in the same conversation.

Do you have any thoughts? I'm so confused about how much space to give when W asks for space.

thanks, lodo

[sandi2]

Wow Lodo, I don't blame you, I would be confused also! Man, I think the girl needs a lot of counseling. The thing about counseling.....it needs to be one that is a what I think is called a solution-based counselor that believes in getting the M back on track. So many of these so-called counselors just listen to you ramble (if it is IC) and then tell you none of it is your fault and you need to get D your S. Not good. Then there are those that have the M couple to go together for C and the C just sits there while the couple battles it out. A no-win situation.

From what you say, she is about the most wishy-washy person I have heard of.......in the sense that she is changing her mind in mid sentence. She truly doesn't know what to do b/c her mind is so messed up. Do you know anything about this OM? Do you think he may have some type of "control" over her? Has she ever acted out in this type of behavior pattern before?

Do you have children? What are the ages of you and W? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but it helps to know these things. The more you tells us, the better we are able to try to help.

Speaking of that, if you are financially able to call one of the DB counselors that work with Michelle here at this website.....I have heard there sessions are wonderful and well worth the money. I have not personally talked to them, but sweetie, you could use some good professional guidance yourself for this situation. This would be enough to drive you crazy!

I have been up since 3:00 am this morning and it is after 11:00 pm now and so my body & mind is shutting down. I will get back with you tomorrow or as soon as I can. Do you have Michelle's book on Divorce Busting or Divorce Remedy? If not, see if you can order one ASAP!

Take care of yourself and I will talk to you soon.

Sandi

[Dom R]

I won't argue the other things you said Dom, I just don't know what to do to get it across to him what my needs are. The only way I know is to tell him and that doesn't seem to work, so give me suggestions. I don't know anymore.

What is the most dramatic, most extreme, most "I thought he'd get it this time!!" way you have tried to tell him about your needs so far?

Anyway, if you have suggestions, let me know. I never did get into the Marriage Builder workbook b/c of his hours lately and b/c I just couldn't seem to get into the mood, to be honest, and he seems to be settled back into his comfortable ways again.

sounds like you have settled back into yours.
I'm glad that things have "calmed down" between you.
They could be so much better than that, though.