Hello my Darlings!!!!

[KarenMarieS]

This is a great thread!!
Its so nice to read from others what you have felt for a while and wonder if you were nuts or not!

I remember when I finally moved to Surviving from MLC 2 yrs ago, I would still linger over there, I would read how some LB would sit at home patiently waiting for their WA to come home when they 1- we're hungry 2- had some time to kill 3- see the kids whatever and the LB would jump up, look good, make them a great home cooked meal ( knew I was doomed right there!) wave goodbye, they went back to their OP and the LB would again sit, cry, go to bed alone and wait for it to happend the next day

I was angry at myself that I didnt do this! why didnt I??
I know, cause like Barb said, its not in me - as fiercely as I wanted my H home and family back together I was not going to be made a doormat- I could only validate and justify his disgusting behaivor so far.

It may work for some, I am sure it has, was it how I wanted it to work for me? no, if my ex didnt want to come back to me and work at a better marriage I wasnt going to sit here and wait any longer.

I do hope those in mlc who do not think they want to go on like that anymore, know its ok not to "stand" Its ok to say, enough is enough

[BarbieDoll]

Hey Karen!

I remember you coming to the bb. Wasn't it 5 years ago? I was in California visiting my friend, K, (who just emailed me to travel with her again) and Disneyland. I remember talking to you, little newbie. And boy - did I know how it felt. Who'd have thunk we'd come this far, eh???

OOPS - phone is ringing and it is my ex. HOW DUMB IS THAT??? He KNOWS Ashley dances on Tues nights till almost 10. She tells him this week in and week out yet he phones every Tues night. It's almost like he DOESN'T want to talk to her. And no one else would answer if their life depended on it. Ummm - where were we.

Oh yeah - reminiscing. I love you Karen! (oops that must be the red wine coming out). I am so glad I met you last year. I saw Temeculah on tv last night on Oprah's "Big Give" and thought of our wine tasting with you, Ellie, K and our other DB friend (can't remember her name but she was married to a baseball star).

Anyway, sorry to be taking up your thread MMO. I need to tidy the spare room. My GF is having serious issues with her teen son and might be leaving home for a while. I told her she could stay here till she could stand him. Might be a while.

Barb

[cat03]

MLC--is it real? Yes, I think it is. But is it the same as being a total jerk? No, I think not. Hell, I believe I've experienced an MLC myself, but I did not destroy my family in the process of having it. And so while I think MLC is a legitimate "syndrome" if you will, I think it is used here all too often to explain away bad character, bad behavior and supports an environment of denial. It also lulls us into thinking that when they "snap out of it" things can go back to normal.

It caused me so much grief to try to "make" my H see how "wrong" he was during our last C session, was infuriated he did not remember the same things i did. It never dawned on me that what he remembered was what affected him the most, that he was his own person and took offense at things I dont' even remember...thus I chalked it all up to MLC.
As I carefully look back at history, I do see a bit of the pattern that has gone on lately in my M, and I realize he has been telling me -at some degree- the truth about how he feels/felt.
I guess it's the invalidation part that hurts, but no one can rewrite history, H admitted "it wasn't all that bad", that is putting it mildly but I'll take that. I know what I had, and it was good while it lasted, that will never go away.

still clinging onto the desperate hope their husband or wife will snap out of it and come have a lovely supper with them some day.

Althea, you've put into words a feeling I've had about these people for the longest time but never dared express nor feed it. I have seen people putting up a facade despite abuse and terrible circumstances, waiting for their long gone Ss to "wake up" and putting all on hold for that moment.

Thanks for this awesome post and glad to "meet" you, I highly admire mothers of multiples, lol, I only have 2 so my hat's off to you

[MotherMovingOn]

Excellent, Althea. Can you post this to the MLC board?

IMP

'tis done.

[MotherMovingOn]

So...

I am having the biggest shot of tequila EVER (Patron of course).

I just got the news I expected, I just didn't expect it this soon.

Mitch accepted a job at John Hopkins--550 miles away. He will be leaving our town and will start his new life, away from the children's home this coming fall.

The conversation was fine. I handled myself like DBing Pro. I validated, I congratulated, I asked un-emotional and practical questions (children's health insurance, tuition reimbursement benefits for the kids, etc). I told him that I would really like to talk with him about how we will help the children process this news and how we will help them feel that he is still a part of their "everyday" life even though he will not really be.

I told him the most important thing is that we present it in a way so they know they are not being abandoned. To be honest, my personal feeling about this is that he is abandoning them. He had a choice and he chose his career, period. There are other men (and I know them) who would have chosen their children over their career--that is the kind of man that will win my heart.

But that is my own opinion and has nothing to do with how I will help my kids cope. And of course, I did not share that opinion with Mitch.

I think Mitch was very surprised at how I handled things. he said "I didn't know if you would be mad or upset or handle it the way you are handling it and I really admire you for how you're dealing with this Althea." I told him that I was detached enough from him to be able to be happy for his career (okay, I lied) but that my real concern was for the children and the difficulty they will have with this (I did cry a little during that part).

As expected, his party line is "the kids are strong they will adapt, etc, etc.) And you know, I think that is true--they will adapt, but they will also be heart broken and for that, my heart breaks.

He said he was prepared to "be a parent to these children" and I asked him point blank what that meant because I was confused about that. It's one thing to say it and another thing to put those words into practice. I explained to him that with these changes it was very important for us to have concrete strategies for helping the children feel connected to him and that we should think about it and cooperate. I suggested (for the nth time) that he call on a more regular basis. I explained to him that when they don't talk to him for a week and then finally do, they reel for a day or two. When they don't see him for a month and finally do, they reel for a month.

I also told him that I was not telling him this to make him feel guilty which he has accused me of before, but that I was telling him the way it is, period. He said he didn't think I was trying to make him feel guilty.

It all makes sense to me now why he decided not to go to Budapest--he already had accepted the job and knew his time would be limited with the children. It also clicks now why he offered to help me with a down payment for the car (I figured something like this might be the underlying reason).

Anyway, I've got to go. I feel a little sad right now (partly because I'm out of tequila). But I am taking care of myself. I got a pedicure yesterday and a waxing (!) today. Thanks goodness for the little things.

Love to all us brave (?) souls,
Althea

[kml]

Althea -
He still makes me gag, your ex.

As for the kids needing to feel more connected to him: part of me wants to say, he made his bed, let him lie in it. Let the kids drift away from him. But that's not really fair to the kids, is it?

So.....maybe you need one of those little video cameras for the computer and a Skype connection so the kids can video conference with their dad.

Hmmmm....and maybe I'm smiling a little picturing him sitting at his cold desk, looking through that portal into your warm and homey house full of life and love, seeing some handsome new man in the background playing with his kids.......okay, I admit it, I am eagerly awaiting the day when karma bites him in the behind. Not very spiritual, am I?????

Ellie

[pat44]

Hi MMO:

May I have a shot too please?

I am sorry to hear about how Mitch is acting... If he doesn't get it, he doesn't get it. You really can't force him to open his eyes to something he doesn't want to see or simply is incapable of seeing.

And once again, I have to say, I really admire how you handled the whole situation - so classy and so together. I really respect how you kept the focus on what is best for your kids as opposed to how you feel about things. This isn't easy on you either.

There are other men (and I know them) who would have chosen their children over their career--that is the kind of man that will win my heart.

There really are lots of other men like that out there. All my good male friends are like that - we spend a lot of time talking about family/work balance. I am so very sorry that Mitch isn't one of them.

I am looking forward to meeting you - the first round of shots are on me.

take care,
AG

[cat03]

I suggested (for the nth time) that he call on a more regular basis.

I've almost given up on asking him to please call kids for a sec to at least good nights when he wont' see them (specially the olderst who misses him the most) for 4days in a row to no avail, grrrr!! I think he thinks since they are physically fine there is no need call, block head! s9 really misses him and a call would help.

Anyways, I hear you Althea, it's very frustrating to see how our beutiful children are treated like potted plants half the time.

[MotherMovingOn]

Ah Ellie, as usual, funny, wise and tough. You're great.

I took your advice about the video thingy as you will see in the letter below. I sent the following letter to Mitch this morning
-------------

Dear Mitch,

I have given a bit of thought to ways in which we can help the children with this new adjustment and I'd like to run some of the ideas past you to see what you think. Please keep in mind that I think it is important to have practical solutions on how to keep you as much a part of their life as we can. I know that you want to be there for them in whatever capacity you are able and to have concrete strategies for that is the only way we will be able to actually put any oomph behind that desire.

So, without further ado...

1. We could get one of those camera thingies with a "skype" connection to put on the computer and they could video conference with you that way. Little things like saying good night to them or showing them pictures of something you're working on (or cooking or whatever) would be a really solid "every day" kind of connection. Would you be willing to buy that for them? Augie told me you have one for your computer already.

2. Getting dates for your visits here and their visits there written down on their calendars will be a little comfort and something that they can look forward to. That way, they know what to expect and when.

3. Speaking to them lovingly about our new "family." Mitch, I grew up understanding the definition of a "family" as two parents and the children under one roof. Of course, that's how I always wanted my own family to be and when you and I split up, I saw us as a "broken" family. But we have the ability to re-define what family means to US, especially now. I think in talking to the children we need to emphasize that we still are a family, just a different sort of family. That they still have a mom and a dad who love them and care for each other and that we are still their only parents and that we are a new kind of "family." They have said to me so many times "but we're not a family anymore" and I try to remind them that we are indeed a family. It's hard to get across, but I think with repeated reminders it will sink in.

In thinking about what is best for the kids, I have decided that I would like you to tell the children about it this coming weekend. They need to know the whole story, not just parts and pieces which I think will make them more anxious and put them in a fear position of wondering "when is the next bomb gonna drop." Just get it all out there on the table and we'll deal with it. I need to begin to help them process this information when they return and the sooner they can begin to deal with it in it's entirety, the better. So, please start thinking about what you will tell them and the kinds of questions they are likely to ask you and how you will answer:

1. Are you keeping your apartment?
2. How often will you visit us?
3. Are you going to stay there forever?
4. Will you ever come back to Bloomington.

Those are the kinds of things they will want to know. Most important I think is being able to provide answers to when you will see them. Aurora goes to visit her father in New York during breaks and summers--maybe you could mention her as an example of a kid who has the same kind of arrangement with her dad and it works out fine.

I hope this helps to get the ball rolling in regards to how we can help the children through it all. I welcome any additional thoughts on your part and invite you to keep an open line of communication with me about these things. I realize these changes are hard to tell me about, as they are hard for me to hear about, but I'm a big girl and I can handle the truth. I also realize that the decision for you to to live away from your children is a hard one and as I have said before, I will be your ally in trying to help the children have as normal and close a relationship with you as possible.

In planning your visitation schedules for the summer and beyond, I hope you will be generous in the time you give the children. Perhaps you will want to re-think the summer schedule to be with them a little more? The more time you can spend with them, the better.

Lastly, I would like to know, for legal and child support reasons, what your new salary is and when it begins. This does impact the child support and is in fact information you are required by law to provide to the courts. Since I know you are pretty honest about these kinds of things, I feel comfortable asking you rather than asking the court to ask you. However, if you still prefer that we do everything by the book and go through official channels, I will consult the lawyers/courts--your call.

Good luck to you,
Althea

[Lissie]

I will be your ally in trying to help the children have as normal and close a relationship with you as possible.

THIS says it all. It sets you apart from the unworthy human that he is.

It puts you in that wonderful mom category. It is the stars, the angels, the whatever you want to call it, lined up right. Right behind you and your beautiful children.

I want you to know that this camera, and all this foo foo techinical parenting, is just wonderful, yeah great.

But what the kids are going to remember is the fact that they can touch your beautiful face, and not have to stare in to a screen to see you say I love you.

Sorry, but to choose a career, over your kids, just makes him a a POS in my book.

You go over and beyond, and you know what. I am behind you in doing that all the way. B/c the reality is, you are not doing it for him..

You are doing it for those babies.

You can put your head to sleep at night, with no worries.

It will be hard, it will be a struggle, It will be one of the best joys in your life. I will baby sit when you need me too.

YOu can drop them off here in Jersey, and go have your self some fun and luvin. Or better yet, M&M and I will go there, and baby sit right from your home. I may even learn to juggle.

I am sure your friends and family will pitch in whenever they can also.

You are a wonderful single mom, and I am blessed to know you.

You touched every important base in this letter.

And Patron Tequila, Yum, had that for the first time a few weekend ago.