TRYING to enjoy the quietness

[lilac]

Kissak,

I noticed your location is on the east coast--I know in MA spouses are entitled to 50% (or other percentage deemed by the court) to the others pension and 401K.

Be strong and get what you deserve~

[kissak]

Thank You Lilac...Im in NC and it is the same here. My H just thinks Im not going to notice that was in there. He has no idea I have an apt with my lawyer tomorrow to look over the papers...I want to get them back to him asap. I want him to know Im done with his games. I will be asking for what ever is rightfully mine...

[kissak]

Lilac,

I noticed in your sig line that your H said He just wants to be himself. My H used that alot on me...said he just couldnt be himself around me, but could around the OW...Who on earth was he then for those 15 years!?

Take care

[kml]

What is the value of H's retirement funds and the equity in the house? Remember, this is all about math and business.

Talk with your attorney, but also crunch the numbers yourself.

For instance - if H had $10,000 in an iRA but the house had $200,000 in equity (say, value of $300,000 with a $100,000 mortgage) then the proposed deal would be a good one.

If, on the other hand, H has retirement funds worth $300,000, and the house has only $10,000 equity - well, obviously that's a crummy deal.

Bear in mind, too - if that deal with the house has YOU making all the payments, it may not be such a great deal to give him 20% of the equity YOU have paid for over 15 years or so. That could end up being a lot more than you think.

So - crunch the numbers. For some reason, WAHs seem fond of that option of trading the house equity for their pensions (worked for my brother in 2 out of his 3 divorces; his third wife got smart and insisted on her fair share of the pension).

Also - house prices are falling in many places throughout the country, so be careful about trading things for house equity that may evaporate over the next year. And try to get into the calculations the cost of selling the house. For instance:
- you have a house worth $200,000 with a $100,000 mortgage debt. At first, you might think that's a $100,000 asset. So, you agree to keep the house equity and give H $100,000 in savings. BUT - if you were to get into financial trouble a year later and have to sell the house, you wouldn't get $100,000 out of it. There would be realtor fees, and costs involved in fixing it up to sell, etc. - so maybe you would only get $90,000 out of it. H ended up with $10,000 more than you - see?

Also - about "fairness" - I'm all for fairness, but don't believe that in a sitch like this, 50:50 is fair. After all, you will likely continue to be the primary caretaker for your small children (an H like yours, in his occupation, is unlikely to be able to provide 50% custodial care). You will need to provide them with a stable home, and your work opportunities will be limited by single-mom childcare concerns etc. Your career opportunities may already have been reduced by time you took off to raise your kids.

So what's "fair" in that situation? I haven't been through it, and others here can probably give you more input. But it seems to me, what is "fair" is that he give you half of all assets ( house equity and pensions) earned during the marriage. On top of that, child support (usually by a formula and seldom equal to half the cost of providing a home and raising a child). On top of that, alimony adequate to compensate you for getting back to where you might have been career-wise if you hadn't taken the primary caretaker role (say, support for four years of college if you need a degree, or support relative to your lost earning potential on the job). This may be harder to fight for, so you may need to argue for more than 50% of the assets to compensate. He should also be responsible for his share of kids' college costs - don;t forget that one.

If your H had been the stay-at-home parent or primary caretaker, freeing you to pursue a career as unfettered as mot married men, where would you be now in a career? If you made choices that limited that based on the agreement between you and your H that you would raise the kids, you need to be compensated for the difference, especially since HE'S the one breaking that agreement.

Also - some women fall into the trap of feeling sorry for the WAS and not anting to take too much money from them. Just remember this - the typical WAS blows through their money. Think of any money you can win in this deal as money you can protect him from spending - money that you might be able to use to bail him out in the future.

Ellie

[kissak]

Thanks Ellie!! I really dont understand alot of what you said, but I will reread it until i do!! I wish I had a house worth that much!! But really, I have no idea what kind of money he has in his pensions and all...how can I find out?? I know we owe about $50,000 on our house. We could probably only sell it for about $90,000...just a guess. That is what we were going to ask for it when we were going to build our house.

The papers state that I may reside in the house as long as I desire...but if I decide to sell he gets first choice....Im thinking he is really messing up there....If I ever decide to get remarried, say I want to move somewhere else....couldnt I always Rent out the house...even down the road when Its paid for...It will be mine. He is only asking for somethin if i sell. What if I never sell it and someday make it a rental property....make some money off of it? That is a thought i have had.

Actually I plan on asking for both....we can keep the house the way it is, but I still think I am entitled to half his pensions also....But I guess if he wants to get fussy and say he wants 50/50 of house too....I dont know...I will talk to my lawyer tomorrow. Have an apt at 11:00 in the morning. He has no clue I am going to do this. He told the OW that he is surprised that I didnt come beggin him back since she werent going to take him!! He is begging her for one more chance. Right! Prove that he has changed. Anyway, I think it will shock the mess out of him if I have the papers back to him by the weekend! WITH the changes by MY lawyer.

He still thinks I want him back....He thinks he is irreplacable. Ok, right.

[kissak]

Anyone else have anything to add??? I am making a list of questions for my Lawyer tomorrow. I want to get paid for all of my pain and suffering!!

[kissak]

anyone?? any advice??

[kissak]

OH!!! I forgot to report this...my H's therapist told him that when My H had sex with me behind the OWs back....get this....his mind was not in his control! He didnt have control of his thoughts before he went back on his meds.

Doesnt that sound a little weird? I dont know if he is making it up or not. Besides, we had sex when he was on meds...who was in control then??

I just found it very strange...he is using it as an excuse.

Does anyone find that weird?

[kml]

What do YOu think your future plans will be if you divorce? Do you lOVE this house? Will you stay in the same town? Will you go back to school or change careers?

You DO need to find out about his pensions and 401ks. Your lawyer will help you with that, I'm sure.

look into recent real estate sales in your neighborhood. Prices are dropping many places, the house may not be worth as much as you think it is. Maybe it would only sell for, say, $85,000? Subtract selling costs, fix-it costs, other enticements to buyers like carpet allowance....maybe you'd only get $70-75,000 out of it...minus mortgage of $50,000....means just $20,000 - $25,000. That's the figure you need to compare to his retirement funds.

Now - if you like the house, and plan to stay in the area, you should probably fight for it - a $50,000 mortgage means a low house payment, probably as low or lower than rent. If it would be hard for you to buy a new house, that's another reason to hold on to it. How will you support yourself if you divorce?

Ellie

[kissak]

Actually I do plan on staying here. I have a very low mortgage payment. My home is 3 bedrooms 2 baths, 1 acre land and in a very nice neighborhood. I do not plan on going anywhere. My H is renting a 2 bedroom small house down the street for the same as my house payment....so it would be very difficult for me to find something better than what I have for less rent. People say I would be crazy to give it up! If I sold it, I could put a single wide trailer on the land my dad has given me that is closer to them, but I am not going to down size. I can afford this place. As long as my H pays his child support that is. My only other Big payment each month is my vehicle, but I only have a year left on it. So, once that is out of the way...I will be ok. Actually I have been making it on my own for a year now. He hasnt really contributed to the bills since the first bomb. The Lord has provided for me.

What I am afraid of is he wont have any pension or any retirement left in a year...he has already borrowed from his 401 and sold one of his stocks recently just to make ends meet.

I may just end up with the house. Which is ok...We have lived here for about 9 years and basically he always made the house payments...my income was used for food, gas and entertainment stuff....Im making it...like I said , as long as there is child support coming in.

Actually our area is growing so much. We live in a small community that is growing....million dollar housing developments going up down the road and all over...Im hoping the value of my home will go up one day....we got an excellent deal when we bought our house because the people wanted to get rid of it quick because they were building their own house....

I dont want to go anywhere. HOWEVER I do want the OW and him to move...or at least her. I have to pass her house every day!