W not angry any more and wants to work on the M

[Lanzo]

Hey Kalni,

I'm glad you put it that way cos it helps with my understand of everything.

Yes I never thought I'd hear W use those sorts of affectionate terms, even now when we talk on the phone she's ending the sentence with "Hon", "Hon-ee" or "love" but my dumb brain is still trying to process what shes said a few seconds later and I lose the thread of the conversation. But I guess it will come to me naturally soon.

What I need to do now is to link my brain to my mouth so I can say ILY in return.

Lan

[Kalni]

Good,
I didn't want to get misunderstood and get you mad at me thinking I wasn't serious enough about something so important because I felt I were.

It will come to you. Afterall, you are the official link-guy on this boards for many of us. You'll find the way... I am sure you do it already with actions, words will come.

Kalni

[Lanzo]

Hi Kalni,

My actions have never stopped saying ILY to W, I hope she realises this. I think I'm a bit hesitant verbally cos when I say something I mean it as opposed to the way W , WAW women in general (shoot me down if I'm wrong) say what the feel at that moment in time.

Examples, when W told me 2 1/2 years ago the M was over, that was how she felt at that particular moment in time, that wasn't to say the M was over. When she dropped the bomb ILYBNILWY that was how she felt at that moment in time, When she called me waste of space that was how she felt at that moment in time, and I can assure you I'm not a waste of space. When she said ILY at the train station that's how she felt at that moment in time. Can you see what I'm getting at.

For me, if I say you're a waste of space I'll say it cos I mean it, end of story, if I told W I didn't love her that would be the case and we probably wouldn't be together. So I guess this is another case of Venus & Mars, X & Y, Men and Women going in opposite directions. Yes I'm still learning and don't worry I've already got the book (Women are from Venus Men are from Mars).


Lan

[fb2]

My actions have never stopped saying ILY to W, I hope she realises this.

Lan, That's the best you can do. Its hard to do this when their feelings however bizzare dominate the R; our feelings are generally suppressed; maybe this Venus/Mars thing is the best we have to navigate by.

[Forrest Gump]

Forgivness.....

When everything about you says... I never stopped loving you.

Your gestures. Your smile. Your thoughts (Thats a big one). Your hopes. Your dreams. Your every effort.

Have you gotten there .... No.

Have I gotten there... He*l No.

Are you working on it?..... Yes

Lan. What you are doing is not the best you can do.

Remember "Fast Forgive" does not work!! You have been there and done that. You are doing something different now! Focus on that!

[Lanzo]

Hey Forrest,


I've been having a think about this forgiveness thing this weekend. I think I generated the discussion cos I wanted to know how to do forgiveness right cos I was scared of making the same mistakes of the past. But now that I've thought about it, its too soon to be thinking of forgiveness. What I need to do is to let all the hurt and pain in me heal itself naturally and that's gonna take some time, and when I get to that point I won't be thinking about forgiveness cos I won't be feeling or thinking about the hurt and pain anymore and forgiveness, well that could then be anything.

But in your words and for the benefit of anyone else reading if you could answer these next two points or complete the sentences I am about to start that would be a great help.

1)Fast forgiveness of your spouse after an A does not work because...

2)What you should aim to do so you can move forward is....

Thanks Lan

[GFI]

Hi Lan

I'm following this latest turn of your thread with much interest - as are many others I expect cos it impacts significantly on so many of our experiences and situations.

I have got round to thinking that forgiveness is one of those easily spoken of "givens" in the repairing of a damaged relationship. Right up there in the "Love is" category of mushy pap.

Its almost so ubiquitous as to become beyond examination, yet it desperately needs looking at and interpreting by everyone who has been hurt or has played a part in the hurting.

We only seem to meet this challenge with the big stuff though. Perhaps thinking how you forgive people over smaller things might provide a valuable insight into how to progress with the bigger stuff.

IMO one of the major problems is that forgiveness is spoken about as if it has a universal, commonly accepted quality. Sure, we all talk about it as if we share an understanding of what it is but its likely to mean many different things to different people. The treatment of it as a commonly understood concept forces us to strive for something we believe we should attain and with the right kind of effort is attainable. It also leaves us with a tendency towards "fast forgiveness" cos we want to get that requirement ticked off in our efforts to mend and move on.

This externalization of the concept means that even if we get close we probably will fail to grasp it fully. This is dangerous.

IMO folks need to spend time (like with the 5LLs) finding out what forgiveness looks like and feels like to themselves and only themselves.

Lan, above you mentioned trust...I think this has a huge role to play...perhaps when you finding yourself trusting your W you are starting to forgive?

For my part, I have to forget others and their way of defining forgiveness cos that ain't gonna work for me.

Best - GFI

[Lanzo]

Hi GFI,

It seems like we have to follow the holy grail in our quest for truth and enlightenment about forgivness, I'm tending to agree that one man's solution to forgiveness doesn't necessarily fit another. I've been given some definitions which I can't agree 100% with but I've got a better Idea of how to approach things with the feedback I've received so far

You've just reminded me of something I mentioned earlier and that's rebuilding trust, that has to fit along side healing the hurt in the relationship which is all part of the same healing, forgiving, moving on process.

As with most thing even DB'ing, the (forgiving ) process has to be adapted to fit the individual situation, forgive in whatever way works for you and your situation.


Lan

[Concerned_Listener]

Lanzo,
OK, here's my comments. Thanks for the questions.

1. Fast forgiveness does not work because it's not honest. There is incongruity between behavior and feelings.

2. What you should do to move forward is cultivate happiness in your mind and life. Happy people don't dwell in negativity and in the past, but live in the present and do what their lives ask of them.

CL

[Forrest Gump]

CL.. Yes

Fast Forgive..

Does not work because it is full of "Emotion" That something you lost. Its the quick fix. The Hurt. The pain. The distance. You had no idea how to fix it. This seemed like the logical choice. It was easy. You knew if you went the other way it would all be over. You walking out the door. With a big finger pointed her way. Sad part about it was we still had the finger. Pointed right at her. Guess what.. She still saw it. As much as we were waiting on her.. She was still waiting on you. This time he will listen!! You did not. She did not. Where you at now??

Where should I aim?

Me and you both know our aim sucks. We can't even control what is attached to us. The harder you try to aim the less you will hit the mark. When you see the sign in the bathroom that says.. "My aim is to keep the bathroom clean. Your aim would help." Don't you really just want to wave it about. Get it all over everything. I'll say it again... get "I Never Stopped Loving You." all over everything.