Good lord you two... Amy and Frank... still around. I don't know if that's good or bad Anyway, just checkin in around the boards and saying hi to old friends. Hope all is well and continues to be. I will try to catch up more as time permits.
For what it's worth, I don't think that Frank was trying to re-ignite an old flame. I hope not anyway. Although I appreciate and agree that even calling an old flame could lead to that.
The past is the past. It can't come back like it was back then. It only exists in our memories now.
More importantly, confusing your mind and emotions with happy past moments that did not involve this person who is currently making your life hell does nothing to help today. Often makes it worse.
Good warning Frank. Just in case.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
For what it's worth, I don't think that Frank was trying to re-ignite an old flame. I hope not anyway. Although I appreciate and agree that even calling an old flame could lead to that.
I don't think he was either. But he's treading on dangerous ground seeking validation elsewhere at THIS time. He's all kinds of vulnerable right now. It WAS good for him to see the other side of the coin again BUT he should be really careful because the lines can blur really easily right now.
Wow, everyone likes to jump on a comment about an old friend that they interpret as Frank chasing 'lost love'. Still don't know me very well after all this time on the board?
Or is it so knee jerk that we have to be alarmed when we see someone post anything about their past?
I won't say I'm insulted but I will say that the responses were alarmist and based on such a minimal amount of information I posted. I know people care so I'm not angry.
Just because I don't have time to write my 'long post' Let me say this: The old friend and I dated for 5 years. for the last year I was unhappy because we had some basic incompatibilities that were never going to change. Eventually we ended the relationship but we stayed friends for many years even after I moved from NY to CA.
We lost touch for the past 15 years, she's married and the same things that made us incompatible in the long term are still present. However, the supportive, strong and tenacious personality she has is still there and in our hour long talk she was more supportive of me and my long term issues than my W has EVER been.
Her mom was like an adoptive mom to me and when I called her (first) she was so happy to talk to me she cried. She reminded me of the talks we used to have and said she thought of me often.
And what happened to her mom (S) the past 15 years? Well her stepdad had a late MLC and found a younger woman. He divorced (S) and married the affair woman. Not sure how many years it lasted but he eventually divorced her too. He then tried to get (S) to marry him again but she decided she didn't want to do that and instead they became friends.
On January 30th he died of cancer. He was under hospice care and his primary caregiver was - (S). When I talked to her she told me that he would call her all the time because he would have problems breathing and she'd drive the 5 miles to his house and stay with him all night.
THAT is love.
Even after he married the OW, he never split their properties and (S) basically owns everything now. She's in her 60's and has continued to work all these years and hopes to retire some day.
There's more, but the point it I MISSED that connection to a FAMILY and to people who just WILL NOT GIVE UP on their marriages or their family. I thought about the last time I really felt 'content' in my life and that was pretty much it. It wasn't because of the relationship with 'J', it was the relationship with her FAMILY.
I have a no relationship with W's fake, BS, dad and his wife. W has none either. I have no relationship with her mom and her husband. In other words we as a couple have no support whatsoever.
While I felt loved by W most of the time, when we had problems with life I felt unsafe in our relationship. And I have ALWAYS blamed myself.
As far as support', W has her 'best friend' who is 40, single, never been in a relationship, and sees Frank as merely a "F'cked up alcoholic who she has loved and suffered with for way too long". Or her other 'spiritual friends' who see Frank as a 'lost soul who needs to find his own path without W'.
Give me a break.
My counselor tells me I was suffering from a severe anxiety disorder brought on by the pressures we were under and the lack of MEANINGFUL support from W. Like so many people do, I was turning to alcohol to feel 'better' at night.
I'll believe her when she says "Frank, you needed HELP and didn't get it. Waiting for you to 'bottom out' was the worst thing to do because for an alcoholic that would be an emotional awakening, for someone in your severe condition that could have led to suicide".
And believe me, I thought about it daily for the last 3-4 months before the 'bomb'. And after the 'bomb' I was close to ending it except that I reached out to friends from the board and they made me feel like I had hope for MY life.
That's what love is, DOING something, LISTENING to the person you love and UNDERSTANDING what is going on with them. Not sitting around, waiting for them to 'get it together'. Not thinking about how unhappy YOU are and wishing it would magically 'get better'.
In other words, it's not about YOU. It's about someone else coming first. I practiced that every time my W has bailed. I put her first, I attracted her back. I suffered a lot of pain for it and the last time I lost myself. That's love.
Talking with (J) and (S) reminded me of what I've been missing. Can I get it back with them from 3,000 miles away? No. But I can understand that I NEED it to be part of any relationship.
And remember, my W said she wants to be in a relationship where she 'loves deeply and is loved back'. And I'm someone who "isn't going to change and allow myself to be loved that way". Well, I didn't 'allow' (J) and (S) to love me. They CHOSE to and there was nothing I could do to STOP them from 'cracking through my shell'.
They have no fear of loving fully. They never held anything back.
I remember all those feelings. Whether I'm with my W or not I will eventually find that kind of love again. Right now it looks like it will be without W because I just am not willing to put any effort into 'fixing' it with her. These words keep echoing in my mind:
"When is someone going to be afraid they might lose FRANK?"
I don't deserve this treatment I'm getting. My W is not an abused W. And I AM a good man.
From an old Episode of South Park I happened to see last night.
A subplot in this episode is the breakdown of Stan's parents' marriage. Randy and Sharon divorce due to constant bickering. Sharon does not seem to dwell on the break-up too long, however, and introduces Stan to a new stepfather, Roy, who promptly moves into the family home.
Stan's dad come to pick him up for visitation:
Sharon: Stanley, it's time to go! Stan: Go where? Sharon: Your bastard father has visitation rights, and this is his time with you. Stan: But no! I have to get the girls to come- Sharon: Come on, Stanley! [takes him away by the hand] Stan: Weak! [a car is heard pulling up. It's Randy in a red sports car] Dad? Randy: Hey, Stanley, uuh, hop in. [Stan gets in, and they peel off] Listen, Stanley, I I know all this change must be tough on you, but you know, your- your mother and I thought it'd be best for all of us if we'd split up. Stan: But I don't understand why we have to- Randy: [stopping next to a pink Jeep] Well, hello, ladies. Passenger: [a blonde] Hi, handsome. We're gonna be at Larry's Bar tonight. Randy: [suavely] I'm already there. [the passenger winks at him and the ladies peel off. Randy turns to Stan] What were we talking about? Oh yeah. See, your mother and I still care about you and your sister. But we just don't like being around each other any more. Stan: Well, I don't like being around my sister anymore; does that mean I can leave her, too? Randy: Well, no, because you're a family! You just can't leave family; you have to stick with family, no matter what. Stan: But you and Mom are family; how come you can just split up? [Randy is stumped on that one] You know what I think? I think that when you and Mom got married, you became family. And now that you are, you shouldn't be able to leave her anymore than I can leave my sister. Randy: Ho ho, Stan, you're so young. You just don't get it. [arrives at the house] Well, anyway, have a nice day. Stan: What? That's it? Randy: Yeah. But I loved our time together. I hate to see it end. Go on, get out. [Stan gets out] You know that nothing is more important to me than you, right, Stan? Stan: I guess, but- [Randy drives off, and Stan watches]
---
Later, Stan is talking to his moms new boyfriend who is living with them.
Stan: Do you mind if I watch cartoons? I've had a rough day. Roy: Nnuuhunuuhh. Stan: What? Roy: Chores. Do chores. Stan: My dad lets me watch cartoons. Roy: Well I'm not your dad. Okay? I'm NOT your dad! You you can't just go around playing games with my emotions. [starts weeping and walks away as Sharon approaches] Sharon: [arms akimbo] Stanley, what did you do to Roy?! Stan: Roy's a dick! He ruined my chances with Wendy in the clubhouse! Sharon: [sighs] Stanley, you know you're the most important thing to me, right? Stan: If that's true, then get back together with Dad for me! Sharon: Now Stanley, you have to understand how divorce works. When I say, "you're the most important thing to me," what I mean is, you're the most important thing after me and my happiness and my new romances. Stan: Oh. Sharon: Bye now. Roy! [goes after him] Stan: Divorce is stupid! [clicks on the TV, and the new Fat Abbot show comes on]
--
[The Marsh house] Sharon: Stanley?! Your father is coming over for visitation! Stan? [sees the note and reads] Meet me in the clubhouse. [tosses the note onto the sofa and walks out] Roy: [coming in] Sharon? Sharon, have you seen my copy of Harper's? [sees the note and reads] Meet me at the clubhouse. [In the clubhouse. Randy is alone there] Sharon: [opens the curtain and sees him] Oh, Randy. What are you doing here? [gets in and sits apart from him] Randy: Iii-uuh got a note from Stanley to come out to the-uh clubhouse. Sharon: Oh I thought that note was for me. Randy: Oh, maybe it was. Sharon: [looks around the room] Well, it looks like our little Stanley has built himself quite a clubhouse here. Randy: I remember not too long ago we were just kids playing kissing games in my clubhouse. Sharon: [an awkward moment, then gets up and goes for the curtain] Goodnight. Randy: Sharon? Sharon: Yes? [turns to face him] Randy: Truth or Dare? Sharon: It's too late for games. [goes back and sits down] Randy: No, I'm serious, please. Truth or Dare? Sharon: Truth. Randy: Do you still love me? Sharon: Oh, Randy, I do love you, but- now I'm so confused-uh. I'm living with Roy and-, I don't know how to break it off with him. Roy: [exits the house looking for] Sharon- [the trap is sprung] Guh-ow! Uh. Ey! Uh. Randy: Well, you never know. Maybe- Roy: He- Randy: -thing will work out. Roy: Hello? Sharon: Maybe. I guess it's my turn. Truth or Dare? Roy: Sharon? Randy: [sensually] Dare. Sharon: Do me. Right here in the clubhouse! [he pounces on her and they go at it]
I remember all those feelings. Whether I'm with my W or not I will eventually find that kind of love again. Right now it looks like it will be without W because I just am not willing to put any effort into 'fixing' it with her. These words keep echoing in my mind:
"When is someone going to be afraid they might lose FRANK?"
I don't deserve this treatment I'm getting. My W is not an abused W. And I AM a good man.
Before I get more posts questioning what I mean by this, I want to add "I am not willing to put any effort into 'fixing' it with her UNLESS she shows me she will actually put effort in also".
No, she doesn't have to beg or grovel or anything like that. I need to know she really wants to BE with me and she WILL do whatever we have to do - together- to make that happen. Sadly, I have come to believe that her basic character will not allow her to admit that she made a mistake by running away.
D17 says she is 'self absorbed' all the time. She is certainly doing her best to be detached.
Anyway, just checkin in around the boards and saying hi to old friends. Hope all is well and continues to be. I will try to catch up more as time permits.