More brainstorming before I make ANY pitch at all:
- What would be good/bad timing (examples, please)?
- What real feelings can I get off my chest which would not take me further from my goal? (for example I really miss the kids, I still have feelings for W, I feel abandoned, I feel lonely, etc.)
- Would it be worth having an "agent" (like one of her best friends) discretely convey a message to her? If so how do I make this happen without backfiring?
- Clearly she wants to feel "in control", "call the shots", etc. Given this what should be my approach? (Remember I've given her time, I've given her space, I've given her $$$, I've given her rope to hang herself, there's at most a 10% chance of success and I'm human and there's a limit to my patience ...)
I would say, first identify what the goal for this talk would be. I believe somebody else brought it up before. Have it clear in you head what you are expecting from this talk. It's important to be honest with yourself. I know that when I had the urge to do so a couple of times and was really honest I had to back off. I knew I wasn't getting what I wanted anyway...
Be honest to her but do not show her you are lost, lonely etc. Just tell her how you feel about her, not how you will feel without her.
I wouldn't use a friend. NOPE!! She will know it's you.
I have to think about it some more. I'll get back to you (my D woke up).
Be honest to her but do not show her you are lost, lonely etc. Just tell her how you feel about her, not how you will feel without her.
Did this at the end of a pleasant lunch; I felt it was time since its been about 4 months since I went anywhere near this topic. I asked if she was open to "explore the possibility of getting back together and if so she could lead the way".
She almost immediately went into overdrive - got very emotional, shedding tears, blaming, attacking, threatening court action. I stayed as calm as I could but left within the next 5 minutes anyway since I had to go to a meeting at work. Some of it sounded like MLC - she's afraid of getting old, wants to buy a Mercedes benz car, her life was wasted with me, etc.
PS I don't really feel like posting any more because I've been checking often but don't get many postings on my thread and don't know what advice to give people either. Not sure anymore if Dbing even works maybe its just an illusion or I'm getting too tired ;(.
sometimes it helps to post even if you don't get a great number of answers. Use this board for recording your thoughts and taking time before you do something drastic. I may not be the wiser of all that could help you but I am always checking on you and I believe many more here do. Sometimes it's difficult to say something worth saying and at least, I feel, it's best to keep quiet than create confusion.
what was the end of the discussion? You just left? Did she ever get the chance to reply to your question? How do you explain the emotional outburst? That doesn't sound very normal, does it?
Her reply was effectively "no way she's getting back" ... followed by the outburst ... same as how she responded ~4 months ago and earlier as well. And this was after she talked casually for ~1hr about this, that and the other. I felt I really had to test the waters though to see how she would react. I did not leave abruptly I tried to soothe things a bit as best I could for a few more minutes but I really had to leave as she was giving me a ride in her car back to my office and I was running late already.
Yes these outbursts are not normal for the normal person but is W's normal behavior in difficult situations. My explanation for the outburst is either: (1) she feels very guilty about something and is masking it (2) she's clinging onto past hurt and this is how she expresses it. But again one never knows for sure. -fb2
Me-48, W-38 M14, D11, S7 W filed D 01/07 W had to move out 06/07 Current Thread
I read you your reply and I was trying to imagine the scene. Something sure sounds weird. Why does she get so upset over your question since she seems very persistent on the D? I can't really tell. She has a lot of anger and that's something you have to figure out why. As long there is still so much of it there is no way she'll question her decision. Why is she so angry? Do you have an idea?
Kalni, You've asked some very intelligent questions.
Originally Posted By: Kalni
Why does she get so upset over your question since she seems very persistent on the D?
This is still a mystery to me. There's 15 years of emotional investment; clearly she is not yet "emotionally divorced" and even tells me details about her life without my asking.
Originally Posted By: Kalni
She has a lot of anger and that's something you have to figure out why. As long there is still so much of it there is no way she'll question her decision.
I spent Nov-Feb focussed on quenching the anger by listening and validation (mostly with Lan's coaching) and she seemed consistently calm but apparently anger still lingers below the surface as I just found out. And the thought of R ignites it. I have toyed with the suggestion (Lan again) of showing "its over" but I still fear this may drive her full steam ahead all the way over the edge? I want to generate as much "cognitive dissonance" (a.k.a DBing) before that.
Originally Posted By: Kalni
Why is she so angry? Do you have an idea?
From what I gather (Mars/Venus book) women hold on to resentment for years and years and its hard/impossible to let go of it. I can fully understand she feels hurt by many things I did or didn't do. But she keeps talking of something that happened in 1993 when apparently I came home from work and got annoyed with her for misplacing a pen or something silly like that; I listen but also remind her that harping on this kind of thing does not help our cause and that seems to calm her down.
I called her today (2 days after the outburst). She was calm and friendly again. So I applied the "friendly neighbor" technique. I talked about S7 - told her he learned about earthquakes recently and when he f**rts loudly he asks D11 if she can feel the aftershocks. That made W laugh. So I don't think my little "test" did permanent damage; in fact it may have sown a seed if I think of it optimistically.
I think it's fair to say that R talks are on the official list of "what doesn't work". Hey, I guess now you know.
I have a couple points. My first is that you don't have any detachment. Easier said than done, but she just has to sound "friendlier" and you figure, "no harm done, maybe an improvement". Well, it is possible for the WAS to be friendly. In fact, from reading posts on here for quite a while, I'd say that friendly is more common than angry. Do I know what it means? No, but I know it doesn't necessarily mean that they want to get back with you. When you have kids you're stuck with this person basically forever. So, might as well be friendly, and maybe that's all it is.
We are supposed to look for little signs that things are working, but we get so wrapped up in looking for these signs that pretty soon anything that isn't a negative (like your wife's attack on you) may be a positive. There comes a point where you just have to tell yourself that you will live your own life, be the best you can be, and wait for more than a baby-step. I see as many babysteps mean nothing as mean something. It seems that when you're in the sinking boat, like most everyone on here is in, that reconciliations are preceding more by giant steps than baby-steps. The spouse opens up their mouth and lets the words about potentially reconciling come out. It's just my experience, but the WAS actually doesn't beat around the bush if they are considering reconciling. Maybe you should detach a bit, avoid negative interactions (since those are usually pretty easy to spot), focus on what you are doing, and wait to be hit on the side of the head when/if she's making a giant leap.
Sometimes things on here slow down quite a bit and responses aren't real quick. If you feel that being on here though is holding you back from detaching, then take a step back. Post infrequently. Whatever you need to do for yourself. As you detach from being so hung up on your wife and focus on your own happiness, you won't feel the need so much to seek advice on what this or that means or what little thing you could attempt to woo your wife.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
