here comes the sun.,...It will be alright

[Yoyowife]

(((((((Husband))))))

I know that you mentioned in the past that you felt that she was suffering from depression. I've always thought that was true, but your post tonight really confirms it. I really wish there was some way you could convince her to go and talk to a doctor about this. There are tests on the internet that ask questions that score a person on the possiblility of depression. Maybe you could look at one and then think about maybe getting her to answer the questions.

Again I'm so sorry, I know this conversation didn't turn out exactly how you wanted it to, but I do think she will need to seek medical help before she can fix herself or her marriage.

[Sara]

H,

I agree with the others. I don't see that as a bad conversation. You really talked with each other, there wasn't a lot of defensiveness. She was crying, so she has emotions and you touched them. She's not made of stone. I don't remember anyone saying this would be an easy problem to solve. I didn't hear a "no" on the Retrouvaille. She changed the subject. Sounds like whatever kind of counseling she did before was not a good experience. But Retro is not counseling at all. Keep it up. You are doing good work.

[saffie]

husband,

I imagine that in order to get her to go to Retro she will have to know that she will not be asked to talk about things infront of others. She will need to know she will be safe there.

Congratulations on that conversation - I think you learnt quite a bit - the biggest of which from my perspective is that she is frightened. I don't think she knows what she wants because of fear. If she see's that staying in the M is the safest, happiest option then I bet she will do that. She obviously needs to feel protected- she sounds very vulnerable. Now you have made a chink in her armour don't bottle this - this is the best chance you have had in a long time- you are communicating. Try to drop the accusations about OM if you can though. I know it's hard but it no longer is the issue and will shut her down when you bring it up; remember, he probably makes her feel even lower about herself - even you, the betrayed spouse, can see that she was used.( And if you remember husband, it was being unable to forget OP that brought me to the boards in the first place- I was letting them ruin my M even though they were no longer in the picture and my H had recomitted, so I do know how hard it is not to bring the subject of the OM up).

Well done husband - you are doing great.

[Dr LOve]

Ok,

I just did one of those types up a whole page and pushed the wrong %^$# button and lost it all.

ONE MORE TIME.

Thanks everyone.

I don’t know why but I kind of feel relived. I don’t know why. Yoyo, she will never go to anyone to take care of her depression. She has taken the “tests”. On line. Well I can say never se all know you can never say never but it is highly unlikely. I may have left some things out I don’t know how other are able to take dictation about their conv.s. She did tell me she loved me. But did not feel intimate towards me. I also feel the she feel bad and low about her affair with the other man I feel that she feels she was used. When I brought it up. (And yes I know I should not have but...) she did not defend him. The look on her face was acknowledgement. She also did say that Menopause may be the reason for her lack of intimacy… Ok another positive that she acknowledges... a long long time ago…. Back in April. She was ready to leave. I think if we did not have son she would have. I think she thought OM was her night in shining armor. What happened? I don’t know. Has my life style change affected her? Did she see through him? I don’t know I really don’t care. What I do know is that we are in a much better place then we were back in April.
I know Saffie that I need to not bring up the Om and move on. I think the thing that will seal the deal on that part is if I can get her to commit to not seeing him again while we are married. I know this in not the time to shoot for this. But that one thing will let me know that at least she is willing to work on our marriage.
I am going to let this sink in and let the dust settle for a few days. I do think the door is open. I did tell her that I was thinking about leaving a few weeks ago but my support group. (You guys) talked me out of it. I think this does let her know that I am not a door mat and the possibility of me leaving is real. I did tell her that I lost everything before (first marriage). So I am not scared of that. The only things that worries me is our son and paying back my Mom for the loan on the house. and making a decision not knowing where she is coming from. I asked her does she think I should be making decisions by myself that affects both her and our son. She said no. I said I agree.

Ok enough to this morning.

OH YEA MY TRUCK PASSED SMOG…….. What a good day yesterday was. I am off to read what my scope said for yesterday and what is in store for today.


Later
Dr Love

[Dr LOve]

Yeterday general

You're stuck at a crossroads -- but being stuck isn't so bad just now! Take your time and carefully consider all of your options, as there are a few that you haven't even seen or thought of yet.

Relationships
Who made you responsible for every single item of this partnership? It's time to look at a more fair and equitable way to handle the joint duties. If that requires a state-of-the-union talk between you two, so be it.

Today general

You may feel a bit in over your head, but you can fake it and come out just as well as anyone else. Make sure that you keep moving -- that way the sharks will all think you're one of them!

Relationships

It's tempting to push beyond your limits, but that will make you more stressed out. If your body is tired, don't argue with that. Ask for some help. Your sweetheart, believe it or not, can shoulder some of the burden

Dr Love

[hopeforfuture]

H - just a quick question for you, are you 100% clear on what it is that you want?

I'm just asking because going from "Let's discuss a D" to "We need to separate" to "You're free to leave if you want" (with no further discussion) to "let's go to Retro once you find a job" - it seems like you're kinda all over the place. The only thing I see that's consistent is that you want some kind of change, which makes sense, but are you clear on what it is that you want to be different?

Do you want to know what's going on in her mind to get an idea of where she stands on the M?

Hey Husband,
I thought your conversation went very well. I just wanted to add something to NikB's earlier thoughts. As much as you are confused about what you want(see above), your W is probably just as confused with her own feelings as well as with your actions. I know in my case I thought my message was always consistent. I wanted to make the marriage work. But, my actions were not always in line with that. She was confused, I was confused and we were confusing each other.

Also, there was mention of OG not being the issue. This was mentioned at just about every R discussion I had with W before we began patching things up. Yes, I understand that initially the OG or OW is not the issue. There are underlying issues with the marriage that result in the OG or OW coming into the picture. But once that happens, OG/OW is very much an issue and will be until they are removed completely from the picture. I very clearly remember our conversation at the point where she made the decision to really work on things. She did admit that OG had been the problem with her being able to have any desire to work on the M. How can a spouse make a rational decision about fixing a marriage when they are heavily involved with another person? How can H be the right man if W is / was in love with OG? That is what is weighing heavily on her mind now.

Let her know through your words and actions that you want to work on the marriage. That you will be the stable, reliable, consistent person in her life. Get to Retro. Let her know that it is nothing like couseling. It sounds like neither of you had much luck with that avenue. My personal experience with counseling was also less than ideal and several times very negative. Retro is about communication and decisions.

Love is a decision.
Forgiveness is a decision.

[JoieDeVivre]

Husband,
I bet you feel loads lighter -- still carrying quite a load -- but just to get that initial conversation done was a big one.

You know when the bomb dropped on me about my H's A, I can honestly say I hadn't had warm, fuzzy, intimate feelings for him in quite awhile. We were a million miles apart. I was even thinking that perhaps it was over between us. But the A made me really think about things and what I really wanted. We started talking, reconnecting, etc. A few weeks later I told him I still loved him. He was surprised to hear it.

You and your W are so far apart right now. She may think she has no feelings left right now but I don't believe it. I think she just has to find them. You have to reconnect.

I can agree with you and HFF that I didn't get a lot of counseling either. But I do think you'd get a lot out of Retrouvaille.

Have a wonderful day!

Joie

[NikB]

H - thanks for the additional details! More positives in there, it sounds like. I bet some of that lighter feeling is that you finally got this out there. You've been thinking about it for SOOO long and working on the courage to do this - I'm sure it feels great that you finally DID it.

I think the thing that will seal the deal on that part is if I can get her to commit to not seeing him again while we are married.

You might want to include "or any OM" in that request.

[NikB]

Wow no updates all day?? How's it going?

[Dr LOve]

Hey NikB,

Thanks for checking up on me. It's kind of the calm AFTER the storm. I was such a great mood all day my first day back to work. Typing, singing... my coworkers were happy to have me back. (Believe it or not I'm the office clown.). Anyway when I got home wife was much stressed. I could tell. I talked to her a little.
Me: how ya doing?
W: OK
Me: are you studying or looking for work? (She was on the computer)
W: looking
Me: I had a great day at work today
W: that's good; were there lots to catch up on?
Me: no I just had a great day.

Like I said I could tell she was really stressed. Later that day I went to MIL to show her the DVD I made of my trip. (And have a drink).
Then Last night before I went to bed I went into living room where W watched her "*&*&% Soaps (which I think promotes infidelity).
I thanked her for the talk we had last night.
Me: Thanks for the talk last night. I feel allot less stressed.
W: I don't feel any less stressed.
Me: well at least I kind of know where you are at and I know that you are not just waiting to get out of our marriage.
W: (just kind of looked at me)
M: You should feel a little less stress now. Don't worry about our marriage or me leaving. Let’s just concentrate on you getting a job.
W: (Still just kind of looking at me)
Me: I don't want this to sound wrong but I am glad you are confused. It means that you have not made any choices.
W: She smiled and laughed a little.
Me: I so much want to work on us. But it can wait right now. As far as the intimacy issue. I kind of feel like I did a year ago. I can wait. We can work on that together after you find a job. I understand. BUT....I can wait as long as you never "stray" again.
ME: As far as your job search I am very interested. I want to know how it is going. I am here for you.
W: I know you are.
W: well there was 4 jobs that I let the lady at the job agency know I was interested in but I have not heard back from her yet. As it's going now they are asking for things I have not learned yet. I will never be able to earn $30.00 Hr again.
Me: that's alright. We can get by. I can work overtime and make up the difference. You are starting out all over again. You were at you last job for 30 years. You may have to work your self back up the ladder.
Me: There was this collage summer hire I trained a few years back. Someone that knows him and knows me said he talked to him a few weeks back. He is now some kind of big wig at a company in town. He told my coworker that he was grateful for the training I gave him and if I ever need a job to let him Know.
I don't know what company he works for but do you want me to find out? Maybe there is something you can do there?
W: Well find out what they do.
Me: ok, now if I can just remember which coworker told me that? I am getting old ya know.
W: Smiled
Me: Ya know I don't want you to withdraw or get upset but...... Last night I did hear ya say you loved me. I know it was just a little, tiny, tiny bit but I did hear that.
We; Smiled
Me: alright good night

So that is the update. I do feel like I am opening up Nikb, I am putting what happened past me. Letting go. I really do feel like I did a year ago when yes our sex life sucked but I was married. And willing to work though it. BUT.... As I said to her AS LONG AS SHE DOES NOT STRAY.
I did not want to use stronger words at this time. I did not want to make her feel like she was being condemned or attacked at this time.

Later
Dr Love