Lanzo, I've read one of Alter's marital books, and found it helpful. It's a good read for men as it offers concrete advice--like a brother or father hitting you over the head with a newspaper. It basically advises men to be less self-centered and more focused on being selfless for their W's--good listeners, etc..
I agree with what he says, except that I would balance it with the GAL, keeping a balance of self-care and service approach. I'm sure the author would agree--he believes that marital problems are a result of egocentric husbands who need to mature.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Let me just say once again if you don't understand just ask. I will do my best. What works for me is specific references. People write alot. It is hard for me to think and respond to it all. My brain is going a million miles a minute and I tend to forget. I will never take offense to anything someone says. Ask away. Point out what I am doing wrong. Or just what you don't understand. I will do the same. 99% of the time I am just going on what I think or what I "see". I fully understand not every one will get it.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
No need for me to push W for R talks, she surprised me by starting some before lights out. She said she has noticed that I wasn't wearing my wedding ring. I said that's correct. She asked if I would be putting it back on. I told her I've thought long and hard about this and I won't be putting it back on, but I would wear a new one. W says I'd have to buy a new one myself because a new one would mean nothing to her. I told her the old one means nothing to me now. She asked me if she should take hers off, I told her no,but it would be her decision if she did take it off.
W then said she's sad and disappointed that we've never really celebrated any of our wedding anniversaries, I said we must have but we haven't really celebrated the last 3. W says the first Christmas that we tried to celebrate on our own as a married couple was cr*p so the first wedding anniversaries must have been the same, so since then she hasn't put her heart in to celebrating the event.
Actually when I think about it W does have a point, there has always been some drama which occurred around wedding anniversary time which meant we weren't talking or just didn't celebrate.
1st 1998 W unhappy at living in my old house 2nd 1999 W moved out and living with her parents 3rd 2000 Maybe exchanged of cards but we just moved to new house 4th 2001 W in Hospital before birth of D6 5th 2002 W was funny with me all year, I thought she had postpartum 6th 2003 FIL recovering from Cancer W spent lot of time with him. 7th 2004 W & I not talking, the previous month W had told me the M is over. 8th 2005 W not talking to me and has become involved with OM. 9th 2006 Me not in the mood to celebrate, events of previous year still fresh on my mind 10th 2007 W Involve in PA with OM again.
I said to W that its obvious to me that the wedding annaversay is a big thing for her and rather that harbour resentment about me not making the effort, we have to talk about and what we do for the future. It has to be part of the healing process and how we managed our future M.
Anyway I hope she caught that last bit cos I stopped talking when I heard her snoring.
Dude you so F'd up. Don't take that the wrong way. But DAM'n. I saw where you were going with the "bedtime stories". Yea, she did not see it. Thats why I like you Lan. Honest. You put it out there.
That was just not the thing to do. You can see it and you can feel it. It really was not that bad.
In your own words you have to take that back. No I'm sorry. You just gotta take that back. She did not "feel" you on that one. Big key to me was "should I take mine off?"
Really you got it by the end of what you wrote. Don't hang up on me beating you here. That is the sh*t I am talking about. You felt fully justified in your feelings, your thoughts. But,.. yea "I did not get it Dog." (American Idol Reference)
This will be a learning experience for you. Right now is your time to shine. You are going to have to make this moment stand out to her. You are gonna have to make her understand why you said that. Oh.. Its gonna be hard. I got nothing for ya on that one. Remember I said the "Why?" won't work. ^^^^^^^ That had "Why?" all over it.
Take this to heart ... it was not that bad. I really don't wanna beat you up because I think you will think too much about it. Deep breaths. No Drama. Turn this around and make it work for you!!!
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
I knew what I was doing when I mentioned my wedding ring to W but I guess I didn't get the sympathetic reaction I wanted. I could see by the look on W face that that part of the coversation wasn't recieved well . To be honest I actually wanted to say to W "Look I took my wedding ring off cos you were fking OM, and rubbing my nose in it" but that wouldn't have got me anywhere would it.
This morning I confirmed with W that we've never actually celebrated properly any of our wedding anniversaries, we went through the years together and concluded that was indeed the case. I said from now on we will have to make a conscious effort to celebrate this event, W agreed and said "yes it will have to be part of the healing process" (her words not mine).
I mentioned my wedding ring again and W's mood changed (seems like this is another big issue to her) she said she'll leave it to me to deal with that one. Then she tried to grab the moral high ground and said "Well at least I've never take my wedding ring off". I so wanted to reply with "Not even when you were fking OM and making a mockery of our marriage". Anyway I didn't, but it seems I've got a problem with my wedding ring cos I really don't want to put my old one back on. And I've got to stop some of these retaliatory thoughts coming into my head when W and I are talking R. I think that will come when it comes to forgiving cos I haven't fully grasped that issue yet.
PS I fully understand your previous thread so despite what I've just written I fully know what it is that I've got to do.
Interesting you never did celebrate your anniversary. Same here:
1st year married : had a newborn at home, pretty tired, didn't celebrate our annivrs 2nd year : the exact same date I gave birth to our D (I thought It was the nicest present for both of us) 3rd year : His mom dies next day of our annivrs 4th year : his mom death was more important than our anivers, he was very very depressed 5th year : same, I was a bit mad that death was winning over life, our life 6th year : had a small heart shaped cake and bday cake for D 7th year : already separated
I hated it everytime I was thinking we never got to celebrate our day. He never seemed to mind or care. Next year we are having a BIG party...
Anyway I'm gonna need help in how I approach R talks with W, I've been waiting ages for it but it seems now that most of the things I'm feel like saying are only likely to start a fight. As forrest says I've still got too many "Whys" in my answers. Plus I know I'm still holding on to too much hurt, anger and hostility.
Over in Newcomers the advice was to unconditionally forgive ( just let go of the hurt and anger ) , but I'm not sure how to do that or how it works cos I still feel the pain of what has happened. Do I just say to W I forgive you. (then what ?) or do I just tell myself I've forgiven her. Do you have to feel forgiveness before you can give it (Cos I'm not feeling it yet) or is it just a bunch of words ? As I said in newcomers this is one part I'm not sure about.
