Meredith..your 5 years continuned.

[CMNM]

Yes, it is true that you can feel alone even in a room full of people.

Mer is really with her whole family. I made up the romantic part.

Romance isn't all that is cracked up to be anyway. My happily married friend envies me because I have control over the remote all of the time! It's a give and take.

Just looking on the bright side of life!
Pam

P.S. So, you're a control freak, too? Do tell. I didn't think I was, but when I heard it from multiple people, well, I had to listen. Are you a crazymaker, too?
Meredith and I are reformed. It was a tough 12 step program run by Betsey.

[cagzmom]

Keeping focused on US is so hard. I mean even on this wonderful board.. this stitch. EVERYTHING in my mind rolls over to him .YET for me - for you for all of us we have to think about us.

Oh yes Pam I too am in the 12 step decontrolonizing myself. Actually C brought it up again yesterday. Time and time again.
But we are a work in progress tee hee.

I am learning that control isn't all what I thought i was cracked up to be..that letting go and letting people make their own choices (even my 19 year old son) is better than me trying to direct thier lives. UGH! =( It is good - I am glad to let go..but it hasn't been easy.

My happliy married friends daughter said that she was kinda "envious" that me and my daughter get to do so many "Girly" things you know mom and daughter things. IT is true..their is GREEN grass on both sides of the fence. YOU JUST HAVE TO SEE IT! =)

H is coming over to drop off d11 very soon. AND YES the sagga continues...more later...

[cagzmom]

Something my C said yesterday keeps whirling through my mind.

I said "Why can't I stop loving him." He said because in your heart of hearts (which he said "i hate htat saying") but he said in your heart you are not willing to see that H is bad for you. AND he is right on. He said, the way he is right now he is not good for anyone... What was interesting was how FAST my mind started to defend him. Immediately it saw all of the "good stuff". BUt what my C brought up was something totally different it was the "CORE" being stuff. He said, he isn't willing to be comitted to a relationship, not willing to be held accountable..and a couple other things. NOTHING About him in the light of which I see him. YET HE WAS RIGHT ON>

All my heart chooses to see is what the ow is seeing. AND that is not the CORE of who he is. Even yesterday, the things he said in reference to her and the R with her. So SELF SELF SELF centered. AND THAT is not good for anyone AND I deserve better.

[tpaschal]

P.S. So, you're a control freak, too? Do tell. I didn't think I was, but when I heard it from multiple people, well, I had to listen. Are you a crazymaker, too?
Meredith and I are reformed. It was a tough 12 step program run by Betsey.

Pam,

I think this was to cagzmom, but I'm going to respond, too.

Hello, my name is tpaschal, and I am a control freak!

Now that it is off my chest, I have to ask, what is a crazymaker, and how do I know if I am one?

:-)

[tpaschal]

Something my C said yesterday keeps whirling through my mind.

I said "Why can't I stop loving him." He said because in your heart of hearts (which he said "i hate htat saying") but he said in your heart you are not willing to see that H is bad for you. AND he is right on. He said, the way he is right now he is not good for anyone... What was interesting was how FAST my mind started to defend him. Immediately it saw all of the "good stuff". BUt what my C brought up was something totally different it was the "CORE" being stuff. He said, he isn't willing to be comitted to a relationship, not willing to be held accountable..and a couple other things. NOTHING About him in the light of which I see him. YET HE WAS RIGHT ON>

All my heart chooses to see is what the ow is seeing. AND that is not the CORE of who he is. Even yesterday, the things he said in reference to her and the R with her. So SELF SELF SELF centered. AND THAT is not good for anyone AND I deserve better.

Wow. I see a lot of myself in this. My L even told me that H won't need a lawyer because I keep making the case for what a good guy he was.

I think that's the problem. I have a problem remembering that the good guy was in the PAST. The man that's here now is NOT a good guy, he is the MLC monster.

I have a question---what do you mean that you see him in the same light that the OW sees him? Do you mean because he's being charming and wonderful to her, the way he used to be with you?

And maybe I missed a few posts---what self centered comments did your H make about his relationship with the OW? Do you mean about it not being about her? Just want to make sure I'm understanding where you are coming from!

I like your counselor. He makes some great points.

[cagzmom]

I think that's the problem. I have a problem remembering that the good guy was in the PAST. The man that's here now is NOT a good guy, he is the MLC monster.

Hello fellow control freak

What really struck me when my C said that was two things. 1 was that as SOON as he said "he isn't good for you.. my mind started thinking he is kind, compassionate bla bla bla. Then 2) Well if he isn't good for me why does SHE get to have him? How come he is bad for me and not for her...." See how our MINDS mess with things?

He is not good for me because of SIMPLE things. AND THAT is what is helping me. (ok so I have had a bad night and early day as my MIND doesn't want to accept this) BUT What is helping ME is this...

1) HE has NO DESIRE to be truly committed, even to OW. He states that one he is never getting married again...(doesn't want to get divorced again) and that he is not going to put up with S*** anymore.. if she goes or stays I think YES it matters right now..but he has made the turn on her. I remember it from when we dated. It is the turn where "She is to come to him" not the other way around....and she will.
2) He will not be held accountable to anyone.

I can't remember what else but those two things ARE FUNDAMENTAL to relationships. AND FOR THAT HE IS NOT GOOD FOR ME. Because it is what I DESERVE. AND IN THAT HE IS NOT GOOD FOR ANYONE. Until HE deals with his stuff he is unhealthy for anyone.

I have a question---what do you mean that you see him in the same light that the OW sees him? Do you mean because he's being charming and wonderful to her, the way he used to be with you?

Because I view him in the old light yes. I see that I LOST and SHE GAINED. She "got" him. I lost him. IT IS CHANGING but it isn't happening as fast as I would like.

And maybe I missed a few posts---what self centered comments did your H make about his relationship with the OW? Do you mean about it not being about her? Just want to make sure I'm understanding where you are coming from!

Selfcentered thought from H:
1)they were "off" over Valentines day..he says "I didn't have to buy her anything, do antyhign..nothing." I said so you didn't have to BS your way through Vday and he said NOPE. PRETTY self centered when you (I) know that bimbo as much as i don't like her was probably pretty sad. (REMEMBER ITS ALL ABOUT HIM!)
2)now he has made a descion to really live at his apt. I am sure there is more to the story..and I still think ow will move in BUT he said "If I am not at my place I am no where...." which means bimbo has to come to him. (again atypical of how he works)

Just other stupid stuff.

I like your counselor. He makes some great points.

I feel very blessed. He is a young guy and my kids and I all go. He has been a blessing...

[CMNM]

C,
When you look back at things in an honest way, weren't there things that could have been better in your marriage? If possible, would you honestly want this whole situation to turn around tonight and go back to the same exact way it was tomorrow?

You should read Frank's thread in piecing. He also defended his spouse everytime someone would point out her flaws. He is finally getting it.

Yes, you do deserve better than that selfishness. Either some day he will snap out of it, or you will find someone new. Either way, we need to get you in the frame of mind to know that you are worth more than what you were getting, so you will be ready for a REAL relationship with a REAL man.

I hear they're out there....

[CMNM]

Now that it is off my chest, I have to ask, what is a crazymaker, and how do I know if I am one?

Well, a crazymaker is basically someone who makes things a lot more difficult (crazy) than needed in any given situation. A crazymaker talks over the rational person and creates drama that didn't need to be present. A crazymaker will do whatever it takes to win a fight.

You see, I am now reformed because I may have won every fight, but I kinda lost my marriage in the process.

I bet when Mer gets back here she can define this in her colorful way.

[Meredith]

Meredith is too sick to think straight But I will hopefully write more tomorrow.

Oh, and the weekend was great...

[cagzmom]

[quote=CMNM]C,
When you look back at things in an honest way, weren't there things that could have been better in your marriage? If possible, would you honestly want this whole situation to turn around tonight and go back to the same exact way it was tomorrow?

Looking back I can see where I messed up. AND I think that is what makes me kinda sad because I have changed so much so much!!

Do I want it to go back..NO WAY!! I just had wanted to have a chance....thats all. You know..like people who do marriage counseling and WORK at things rather than do what my h did which is RUN away.

Yes, you do deserve better than that selfishness. Either some

day he will snap out of it, or you will find someone new. Either way, we need to get you in the frame of mind to know that you are worth more than what you were getting, so you will be ready for a REAL relationship with a REAL man.

And here in lay the problem with CZM...get to the frame of mind that I DESERVE BETTER. I just can not believe that i continue to refuse to see him for who he is. REALLY. I am being honest...so very very honest. I would LOVE to have a REAL man...more than you know. (not now..when it is time)