Thanks for your input. I know that my needs are probably viewed by him as demands and that he feels I am pressuring him to do things he isn't ready to do. Maybe by me backing off, he will eventually feel it is okay to make some of those changes b/c then they will be "his" idea instead of him reacting to my "demands"? I hope you know what I mean by that. This whole situation sucks, I was so glad last month when he said he wanted to "work on things". I guess we just had different ideas of what "working on things" looks like.
I hope both of our spouses miss us enough to get off their butts and try harder. Don't know how DB that is, but it is how I feel!
BobbiJo, in the event that our seperation (if we go through with it) does not reap immediate results, it is imperative that we make the most of our time alone to improve ourselves in whichever way we can. Easier said than done but this must be a goal of ours. Again best of luck....i wish you happiness.
Thanks Lizzy. Glad to know you missed me! And I never did hit my H with my crutches. Probably wouldn't help him feel close to me! I agree with what you said, if H is here but not really TRYING with me, what is the point in having him here? At first I wanted it just b/c I was so needy for his basic presence. I was so afraid of the thought of him being GONE that even if things weren't moving forward, having him here meant they weren't moving backward, either (hope that makes sense). I kept telling myself, "H is still here, that is a good thing". Like his very presence in our house meant things would be fine. So I backed off and relaxed for a few weeks, and things seemed to be going well. But then I felt comfortable enough to dig deeper and share my discoveries with him. That is when I realized that he was not nearly ready to work on the things I wanted to work on. For him, it truly is an accomplishment just for us to be living together. That is pretty hurtful to me in all honesty b/c if he is proud of himself (my judgment, I know) for being "strong enough" to live with me, that implies that it is a sacrifice to do so. And maybe for him, it is. If so, I don't want to be something he has to "work" to be with. I understand fixing our marriage requires an enormous amount of effort, but I would hope just the idea of co-existing with me does not require so much effort. If so, what is the point?
I am kind of rambling I know. Maybe it is the pain pill I just took. Stupid foot/ankle! Anyway, the thing is, my H has told MIL that he doesn't want to "break up his family". Several times in counseling he has mentioned that if the kids and I don't move up to Iowa WITH him, "That would suck". And when he first said he was moving up to Iowa and I said I may be staying here if I get a job here in Missouri, he got mad. My individual C said that means that, even if he can't come out and say it in words, he obviously DOES want us to be together on some level, and will be unhappy if I choose NOT to be with him.
The individual C and MC have both made some references this week to seeing what happens once I decide to physically move to Iowa. It seems like they are saying to keep lines of communication open with H while we are together (next ten days), and also once he moves to Iowa (after ten days). I don't know my timeline since I haven't interviewed for the job yet. We may be apart for two weeks, we may be apart for 10. At this point, I think 10 would be better actually, but if I get a job offer I CANNOT turn down the opportunity even if it requires moving ASAP. Anyway the consensus of the counselors seems to be to act "as if" we are separating. Not in a bad way, just for me to stop talking about our R entirely. Just have normal, civil/friendly conversations with H about anything in the world other than our M. Then, once the time comes that I am going to be moving up with the kids, let him know that I am coming up and see what he thinks. The actual statement from MC was, "Hey, Dan, I am moving up in X days/weeks. Will we be living together or should I start looking for my own place?" Do you think this is a good approach? H actually said at the MC this week that HE thought things were going well. He said, "Well, yesterday (day before the MC appt.) Bobbi and I went out for lunch together. Then we spent the afternoon at home together while she rested her foot and I put up ceiling fans. We had a nice conversation. To me those things ARE progress." And then today when he left the house he came and kissed me on the mouth again for the first time in 2 weeks.
Part of me gets annoyed b/c I am thinking "Having a friendly convo. with me is PROGRESS, but you were able to send flirty/suggestive TMs to the OW, and able to make love to her, and hold her, but for me a nice convo. is enough?" I know these comparisons are a big part of my problem. That is part of my individual struggle right now, to stop comparing where we are physically to the fact that I know he could do those things with OW. It would be easier for me to be understanding if I thought he was just physically/affecion-wise challenged right now due to his emotional problems. But to know he could do those things w/HER and not me drives me crazy. Individual C said it is b/c he did not have history/baggage associated w/her like with me. That after H has individual C he will most likely be able to do those things w/me again no problem. It is just frustrating b/c if I weren't pushing, we wouldn't even be talking about separation. But at this point I just NEED to FEEL loved!?!
I digress. Wow percoset can make it hard to finish a logical thought! Anyway, the point of the above information was that my H seems to think we ARE making progress in our R. Slow and steady...If I wasn't pushing for more, the separation idea would never have come up. So I am thinking my plan for the time from now until I move up to Iowa should be: 1)Continue with being happy/upbeat. H is not stupid, he knows that to me separation is devastating. So I don't have to worry he will think I am happy that we will be separating. It just makes things easier if I am happy around him so he can be relaxed around me.
2)Don't push for any progress. If H can't progress without a lot of individual C, then pushing won't change things anyway, just cause a lot of friction. Just take things as they come, one lunch together/nice conversation at a time.
3)Make sure to engage in conversation when he initiates it. This next week with him off work and around the house, it is a good opportunity for us to be together more. Even if just co-existing, him working on home repairs while I catch up on housework, etc. Not pushing for deep conversations, but happily talking with him about every day stuff when the opportunity presents itself. That way, when he leaves for Iowa his short-term memory bank can be filled with positive interactions with me, instead of confrontations/demands from me.
4)Say NOTHING about separation. We are not separated now, and when he moves to Iowa, we will be separated geographically, but not legally or anything. In fact, last night after MC I asked H if he thought of this as a legal, official S or just a theoretical, informal S. He said informal S. So the less I say about it, the less it has to happen, if you get the idea. If I mention it, he may feel the pressure to respond to the "challenge" and agree on a separation. If I don't mention it at all, and show him the good times we can have together, maybe by the time I move to Iowa he won't want to be separated either. Actually we both told MC this week we don't want to be separated, we just don't know what other options we have if we have such different views of what comes next in our M.
Okay, need to see what other replies I have now. Hope your sitch is going well Lizzy. I need to check up on you guys as I have been off the boards for a week! Stupid computer is in the basement and it is hard getting up/down the stairs.
Don't know when the job interview is. The lady doing the interviews has pneumonia so they said she would call me to set up an interview once she comes back to work. That is actually a blessing in disguise to me b/c it pushes back the time line on how soon I would be coming to Iowa. The 4th quarter of the school year starts 3/17 so I am hoping that is when they would want me to start, not sooner than that.
I agree, a crabby me is not good for my kids, my H, or ME! This is just the "perfect storm" week for me emotionally. I have my "monthly friend" this week, and with my birth control pills I only get it every three months. So I think that means I save up extra hormones! Plus I am in lots of pain with my broken foot/ankle which makes me hypersensitive. Plus I am sleep deprived b/c the pain makes it hard to sleep. Plus at night I take pain pills which make me feel like when you have had a couple glasses of wine and are freer with your feelings.....So I have been more showy w/my emotions this week but am working to stop that.
Anyway thanks for the input. I am happier when I choose to act happier so that is the plan.
So one other small thing I didn't mention. Don't know if it matters. I have kept my ring on this whole time. Took it on and off for a day at a time in the early stages of finding out about OW. But told H after first MC appointment in Dec. "I am married to you now and want to stay married to you. I am leaving my ring on until such time as we actually divorce. Up until that point I am your wife and always will be". H has not been wearing ring since early December.
Well, when MC asked H at the appt Thursday, "Can/will you address anything on Bobbi's list of needs?" He said "Not yet". She said, "Then can you do the important piece where she needs you to ASK her to be patient and wait for you while you work on things?" He said he couldn't do that,either.
As soon as we got home the ring came off. I told H that I didn't want to take it off, but if he was saying he couldn't/wouldn't do anything to work on the M, I didn't know how to continue feeling like his wife. Today, I realized that is stupid. We ARE still married, we aren't evening using the word "Divorce". And H re-confirmed last night that even the upcoming separation is "unofficial", not legal or binding or permanent. So I put the ring back on. He gets home tomorrow. Should I say something? I just don't want him to get the wrong idea, that I think everything is fine again. He gets concerned/feels cornered when he thinks I think we are making more progress than we actually are. So I don't want him to think I have decided our marriage is perfect, or that he is suddenly going to meet all my needs so I put the ring back on. I put it back on b/c I realized that I DO still love him and want to be married to him. And he never said he didn't want to be married to me (not in a few months, any way). So I want to wear it again. Anyway, just wondered if I should say something to him about it. I don't want to come across as wishy-washy so now I intend to leave in ot unless/until the ink dries on divorce papers...........
Bobbi, Don't say anything about the ring. I took mine off a couple of times for a week. H said nothing when I wasn't wearing it or when I put it back on. They will stay on now until papers are signed. H hasn't had his on for a couple of years. Hopefully he will put them back on some day.
I have a lot of other thoughts, but I have to go shower before H gets here. Don't want to look like a loser.
Thanks Lizzy. Hope you had a good shower and look awesome today!
Anyway, H spent the night in Iowa last night. I didn't call today, just got up and went about my business getting breakfast for the kids. Super tired as I was up until 3 a.m. w/ankle & foot hurting. H called around 9:15 to see if I wanted anything from McDonald's for me or the kids. I was amazed he was already that close to home. Usually he sleeps in if he is "up home" overnight. Gets back to our house at like noon. So it was nice he got back here at 9:30 a.m.
The morning was uneventful. He actually spent it downstairs tearing out the old bathroom in the basement. The kids and I played and I got some laundry caught up. He didn't come up for lunch when we are but I yelled down and told him when we were eating that if he was planning to keep working that was fine too. So he did, which was fine. I just put D21 mos down for a nap. He said he was running in to Lowe's to get some stuff for the bathroom. We are supposed to go in to our married friends' house tonight for dinner. Our job is to bring wine for the gals and Coke to mix w/Crown Royal for the guys. I won't drink much since I have to take percoset before bed. But I am a little hopeful that if he has a couple drinks he will loosen up. A lot of our physical stuff has happened lately when he has had a couple drinks. Like it helps him let go of his anxiety. Anyway I intend to have a fun time tonight regardless, no expectations. They just set me up for failure. When he left for Lowe's today I was hoping for a kiss goodbye like yesterday. But I did not initiate one or ask for one, either. And I didn't get one. But that is okay b/c we are still talking and at least for now still living together and making plans together like going to our friends' tonight. Hopefully we will be onward and upward.........
And I didn't mention putting my ring back on. He has eyes, and if he wonders why it is back on he can ask me.
Thanks for all the advice! I guess I will continue with being upbeat/no expectations for now. See how that works for me...
I think people have a different opinions about the rings. I took mine of so that it would be one less thing to remind me of our M.
Your description of your slip injury sounds gory. I hope you are recovering just fine.
It is so hard not having your spouse love you in return. We have to hold on to this unconditional love for as long as we can.
I think your H just needs more time. I cant say one way or the other whether a seperation would be good in your case. For me it was such a no brainer as I could not tolerate seeing her get fixed up to go out on a date with another man. It sucks having to miss the kids for half of the time as I suppose my W feels the same. There is a benefit to W missing the kids - she gets a dose of what a D would be like. She still has no financial responsibility as I am paying for everything.
It seems like you are in limbo land between seperated and piecing. If you have patience and act as is without pushing any R talks, you very well could move further towards piecing. Let your H initiate all R talks from now on. Let him do it on his terms.
I dont think the MC is doing much good right now as both partners need to want to work.
Kerry, That is what is so discouraging. I want so much for this to work but I can't do both of our jobs. Only my end of the deal. So to wait and love and hope is just sooo hard. I want it to be over. Not our Marriage. Just the waiting. I want him to want it as bad as I want it. But he doesn't. He told me tonight it is impossible to be supportive of someone else when you don't have your own life together. I know it is true. I know he has to figure himself out before he can give me any encouragement or support. i told him I am willing to support him during his tough time b/c that is what a wife does for the H that she loves. But for whatever reason that is not enough. He just wants to take time to evaluate his life. he admits he is miserable. He says he hates the way things are. He doesn't know how to fix them. But he is doing nothing to try............ If it weren't for the kids I would be long gone by now so he could really see life without me. But the day I tell S5 1/2 will be the worst day of my life..... And I think it is coming up fast
I don't know how to live with "no expectations" anymore. That is what you have on a blind date. Not with the man you have loved for 16 years......
Just really really low tonight...... Actually it is 3 a.m. so I am really low this morning...
And I never did hit my H with my crutches. Probably wouldn't help him feel close to me! 
Anyway, the thing is, my H has told MIL that he doesn't want to "break up his family". Several times in counseling he has mentioned that if the kids and I don't move up to Iowa WITH him, "That would suck". And when he first said he was moving up to Iowa and I said I may be staying here if I get a job here in Missouri, he got mad. My individual C said that means that, even if he can't come out and say it in words, he obviously DOES want us to be together on some level, and will be unhappy if I choose NOT to be with him. 