Well, saw my counselor today. Caught her up on all the different things that have happened the past 2 weeks.
Nothing earth shattering, mostly she responded to things that happened and continued to observe that W is consistent in that when things are tough for us, she 'waits for me to make it better' and when it gets uncomfortable enough and it looks like I"m not going to make it better, she runs away. This is who she is.
She was sad to hear about the talk with D17 and reaffirmed that I was not being 'out of control', I was being assertive and FEELING. W was not feeling because she has checked out emotionally.
She also felt that when I'm 'nice' to W it irritates her so she has to lash out by finding something to attack me with, like last nights "I don't want you keeping track of what I do" attack which followed the previous nights 'needyness', where W found herself in the home that she "feels uncomfortable in" with ME, the man she "feels better when she's not around", giving HER emotional support. Since this was something she said she has wanted me to do - be 'aware of her needs - it irritates her when I do it NOW when it's 'too late' because she is 'done'.
Her feelings about the 'two souls' was interesting because she said that it's another rationalization for her to justify leaving. Her opinion is that W loves me and knows that running away from her commitment is wrong, so she has to come up with reasons why either I'm so bad she should flee, or she's got a mission in life that is more important. Especially since inside she knows that I wouldn't give up on her like this. She said that there are some people who will 'switch personalities' so they don't have to feel the feelings that are the consequences of their actions. They aren't multiple personalities per se, they just switch modes when they are stressed out and can't cope.
I asked her about rationalization in this context and she said it's not about 'regret' about making a bad decision, it's about avoiding the consequences of your decisions. Once again, she says, W knows that running away is wrong, but HER 'feeling good' is more important to her that me or the kids feeling good because that has work attached to it.
C said that she was very much in awe of how I've handled things. She said that she knows that I'm a kind and loving man and that the hardest thing for me to do is to do nothing when I see chaos and pain all around me. I told her how I was thinking last night that I have never given up on W. I didn't give up during the issues 2 years ago, the ones in 1998, or any other time. Yet she has given up on me many times. She says she thinks W knows this, and that when I am treating her with decency and kindness it angers her because she knows that I haven't given up on her, and knows that she has given up on me.
She, like me, believes W is going to do what she can to put off moving out right away. But it's anybodys guess. Her opinion is that W does need to go, to find her independence. Also, that she won't 'see' the kind and decent man that I am while she stays here living with me. She'll have to live without me to actually notice, to miss that person. And she has to grow beyond her fear based view of life before she could be in a healthy relationship with me. The 'Frank is scary and might kill us all at night' is irrational. She may never grow out of this though.
One interesting aside about the 'crazy killer story' W told is that C said she never thinks of me as someone who would get angry or hurt enough to harm my kids or W. She said my personality type has too much compassion for them, and that even though I might even consider suicide if I was hurt enough, I wouldn't want to take anyone with me, and that it would be hard for me (it is) because of the legacy I would leave my kids (all true).
She said something interesting that I should do the next time W spews any more irrational ideas about me like the 'crazy frank' stuff. Just say "W, I've heard enough of this stuff. You've lived with me for 20 years and you STILL haven't taken the time to get to know who I really am. If you did you wouldn't be coming up with these insulting descriptions of a person that isn't me."
Basically, she said, hit her with reality from now on. Period. Not by being mean, but by being kind but firm.
C understands that I can't stop the part of me from loving W she suggested I encourage her to move on and pursue her dream, whatever it may be. She insists that I do the opposite of what I might do and insist that W move on. Don't enable her to stay where she is because then she can play the emotional games with other men while still living with the 'safety net' she has with me, and end up hurting me, the kids, everyone.
She suggested that when W and I talk to D12 this saturday that W commit to moving out in June.
And she said once again that God and the world need me to be using my gifts again, and I've been missing for way too long. Her final suggestion is that I learn the St. Francis Peace Prayer:
Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace. Where there is hatred let me sow love, Where there is injury let me sow pardon, Where there is doubt let me sow faith, Where there is despair let me give hope, Where there is darkness let me give light, Where there is sadness let me give joy.
O Divine Master, grant that I may not try to be comforted but to comfort, Not try to be understood but to understand, Not try to be loved but to love. Because it is in giving that we receive, It is in forgiving that we are forgiven, And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
Oh, counselor also thought that W probably wasn't 'wired' during the talk, she has been uncomfortable about her guilty actions and knew I was acting 'weird' and wanted to get it out in the open. Since I had been kind to her the night before she needed to counteract that feeling.
However, she said that I should always be careful because W is probably being coached.
And of course tonight W is being 'nicer' but not 'too nice'.
We had one interaction where I used my new 'reality check' attitude. W asked me "Are you ok?" tonight. I looked at her and said "I really don't like it when you ask me that because you imply that I'm not 'ok', it's something you've always done when you think I'm having some kind of emotional problem. I'm not. I'm fine"
she said "Well I am just trying to 'check in' with you. I don't know how I should ask you where you're at these days".
Right, she's taking a temperature reading. But the question itself implies that I am NOT 'ok'. I'm tired of that kind of attitude.
So I said "How about saying 'how is your day going?' Right now my day is going fine, it's been busy and I've got a lot on my mind.".
She said that she would do that and she had to leave now so she left.
Why does she need to ask these questions to begin with? She isn't here to 'take care of me' any more. Strange woman.
Frank....I love your C. I think there is good advice. Jack 3 beans has good advice and so does saffie et al:
-DO take the high road -DO balance reality with your hope: avoid any conversation with W that can be interpreted wrongly or used against you. MY L...told me that even lines like "you'll get yours" or "you'll see what happens" can be used destructively against you. DO be positive in your conversations with W. Although you don't have to handle her with D attitude, you should still protect yourself since we can't control other people -Do say that prayer... I like it -DO expect the unexpected IF there is a possibility of her being coached. I find her last conversation with you bothersome. Remember..my W is totally computer illiterate, yet, she did a pretty good 'rifling' thru my PC a few weeks ago, or, someone else did
Balance. Balance. Maintain the better attitude I hear. FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
How do others get to the place where you didn't really care what she was doing?
I have to admit that when I look at her I see such a different person, and I don't like that person. It isn't that she's mean or anything, it's just the emotional disconnect, the treating me like I'm just an acquaintance she's talking to and not anyone she might have feelings for, even if they are hidden.
I mean, 7 weeks ago she was telling me she loved me, cuddling, being together. She was unhappy but she was still connected. It's so sad that it's taken only 7 weeks to get to this point.
Sometimes she's 'happy' and she's somewhat nicer. The rare time that she is down, like the other night, the edge comes off her and I can 'feel' the neediness, she has to connect, even if it's with me.
I could sit down and write a 'pro / con' list as to why her leaving is a GOOD thing and probably have a lot in the 'pro' list. Things that I would be better off not having to deal with any more.
But, the 'con' list carries a lot of weight. I love her, I love my kids and want them not to have a legacy of divorce, and I truly believe that inside, hidden somewhere right now, she loves me and that is not completely dead. Plus, I have to believe that her words over the last several months, where she said she has loved me more than anyone ever and she wanted us to grow old together were not just that - words.
I know she's hurt, and it feels so much better to her to feel like she has some control of her life, and her feelings. But also, my counselor was very clear that she wasn't able to be tenacious, committed and 'in my face' when she saw me spiraling downward. She waited for me to 'fix it' until she couldn't 'wait' any more.
And, as I said before, I never gave up on her, ever. Not when she was doing the things she's done to run away in the past. And she knows that. She probably even knows now that I haven't given up on her in the current situation.
But, Saturday we're telling D12 that we're getting divorced and that will be the turning point for W because she will see herself as actually 'doing something' to make it all real.
Every step like that hurts me, it's like getting another knife in my heart. It doesn't seem to hurt her at all as she is just 'doing what she needs to do'.
So, what do you think? What is the best way to handle all this? I can only be 'loving and nice' sometimes. The rest of the time I need space from her.
It's such a conflict. I don't want to be divorced from her, but she wants to be divorced from me. I can't do anything to change that, and I shouldn't try.
Yeah, I can think about how she can 'change her mind' since she did that 2 years ago and that might give me some hope. But the reality is that she's hurt enough that she has no faith, and is in 'flight or fight' mode. And she chooses 'flight'.
Jack, it's sure looking that way right now! Thanks to everyone for your support! I/We just hope it doesn't cause problems for anyone else! Our friends here are dear to us and we wish for each of you the best...whatever it may be! We have found love, again, and I hope each of you do, too....if not w/ your spouse, with someone who will love and respect you for the wonderful person you are!
Hijacking. We are all acutely aware of what happened and, considering that this place is a strategic area for a person to turn to for help...it really is a sad and pitiful thing that they did that. Truly. They even removed a letter I wrote to Michele. It literally is censorship.
As to you Frank, I think the answer is, basically, time and patience....and your ability to be true to yourself...will give you the answers. Sometimes, I find that turning things into a decision tree with regards to deciding on whether to operate on someone..helps me. If A, then B..if not B, then C.
There are only two choices..file or not file. If you are not ready to file...which I know you aren't, then you must batten down the hatches and be prepared for the choices your W will make...IF ..she makes them. So, as your friend, I know that you still value your M..want it...and in your own words, do not want to leave a legacy of D for your girls.
So...the answer is still right here...it's easy...you know the answer. You can't change her or control her....you can, however, make things worse and push her away. You've already told me over the phone that getting angry, etc, uses too much energy and you'd prefer to be loving and kind. So...the choices are clear:
Frank_D chooses not to file, he wants the M...so...there is nothing he can do except treat her with kindness and leave angry emotions in the dust
Then Frank, I think it only comes back to basic DB'ing..no pressure, no R talk, focus on yourself, move forward in the interim.
Easy peasy Japanesey.
NOT!
Stay strong.
Frank
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
