I just want to make it better. . .

[seekpeaceofmind]

Thanks, Eve. I was feeling ok while away - tried to do some reading on spiritual themes, did some sightseeing, etc. No highs, no lows. A couple of days I had too much time to think and that wasn't good, but no breakdowns. I read "eat, pray, love" in the last couple of days and got caught up in that so I was really focusing on the PMA and then just felt slammed when I got home - very sorry for myself. I know my emotions shouldn't be so tied up in how another person - even H - responds to me, but I'm not getting my head and my heart to cooperate with each other.

Could you possibly phone/txt H and keeping the conversation light and fluffy thank him for looking after the pets and ask after them? See how the conversation goes and maybe invite him over for brunch or a coffee over the weekend? Could you buy him a thank you card or a small gift of appreciation?

What's his LL?

Good point - I picked up the phone and called him after reading your message. I'm not very good at the light and fluffy stuff (not my personality), but I did my best. We had a nice talk, very safe topics of dogs, work, snow - but good. No invites - we're just not there. I did buy him a gift, but have had second thoughts about giving it to him - it's just a t-shirt from a shop in Florida that he likes. I haven't read LL yet, but I do have the book and judging from the chapter titles, I would guess his are acts of services and gifts. Maybe some touch, too.

Way past time to get home and feed those pets. . .

[seekpeaceofmind]

Jbly - I'm sorry that you find yourself in this place. Do you think that maybe the best thing for you right now is to focus on the counseling, heal yourself and then see where you stand relationship-wise? Your fiancee may still be available, she may not, but you will be ready either way for the next chapter of your life? This is outside my realm of experience, but it just seems like you have to deal with you and get past that before you can repair your relationship. 'Does your fiancee show any interest in the fact that you have started counseling? What has she said about how final her decision is?

[seekpeaceofmind]

How did his x wifes behave when they split up?

It might seem weird to others, but we didn't talk a lot about the past. I wasn't interested in discussing mine, so I didn't ask much about his. Something to change in any future R, I guess - maybe even in this one if I get a second chance.

Anyway, first x was mother of two sons. That was a difficult sitch. His story is that she equated access to sons with financial contributions and I saw some of this first hand. She is from Europe and returned there when sons were very young and that made it very difficult for H to have a relationship with sons, even in terms of language, not to mention the expense of traveling overseas for visitation. His family seemed to have sided with xw to some extent - to maintain their access to sons. She was friend of H's sister to begin with. H is very bitter about the whole thing and so we avoid talking about it. I have had some email and phone exchange with her over the years, but really not much. Maybe 5 - 10 times.

Second x - his story on her was that she had mental health issues with violent tendencies. That was enough to make me avoid anything to do with her. His family hated her. She is 10 years older than him. My interpretation of this M was that my H - really a nice guy in my opinion - was in full "rescue" mode, but soured on it. He said that she blamed him for everything that was going wrong -the weather, whatever. Now, I sometimes wonder what her side of the story is.

One thing I didn't really "get" until an MC session is that his history is to go from one R to the next. When 1st M broke up, W2 was in picture even though they didn't get M for a number of years after. Then, I was in his life when 2nd M ended - and that process apparently wasn't as far along as I thought it was at the time. This is part of the reason why it is so hard for me to believe that he doesn't have another woman in his life now. In some ways, if he is really taking time now to spend some time on his own, I can see that as a healthy thing for him to do.

[Evie]

I agree, it's great while your away on holiday, 100's miles from home, away from reminders and routines, then you get home and come down to earth with a huge bang. My head and heart don't co-operate either, i think you have to follow your heart.

Well done on the phone call, is it something you can build on? Keep the lines of commuincation open. Maybe try calling him or texting him once a week? My H responds better to me via the phone/text than he can face to face.

Definately give him the present, don't make an issue, just give it to him and say something casual.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is part of the reason why it is so hard for me to believe that he doesn't have another woman in his life now. In some ways, if he is really taking time now to spend some time on his own, I can see that as a healthy thing for him to do.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You were M for 12 yrs, judging by his age, he was married to you the longest? You got over the 7 year itch! Sounds like XW's had tremendous issues and you don't sound to me like you have at any at all. Maybe he does just needs more time to centre himself and be on his own for a while?

Do you really think he has OW or is it more MLC?

(((hugs)))

X Eve

[seekpeaceofmind]

Sounds like XW's had tremendous issues and you don't sound to me like you have at any at all.

Thanks, Eve! I have lots of issues - mostly with self-esteem/confidence and with irritability/anger. Especially at PMS time I could be very difficult to live with. I knew it and tried to get a grip on it, but still. . . The last couple of years were pretty stressful and that tainted everything. C helped me to see, though, that it took both of us to get to the crisis in our M. I thought it was all me. C said that H had a responsibility to tell me if he had issues in the M and to work on those together. She also helped me to see that anyone would have been frustrated by some of H's passive-aggressive behaviour. One good thing about me is that I always want to be a better person than I am (and there's plenty of room for improvement). I really admire my H in a lot of ways and felt like I was a better person with H and I have told him that over the years.

Do you really think he has OW or is it more MLC?

I don't think he has OW, but I wouldn't be shocked to learn that he does. So far, there is no evidence that he does and he says there isn't. But, when I ask him, he responds shortly and with irritation - not like an innocent man. It was interesting b/c I read some stuff on "gaslighting" and the writer said that a loving response to such concerns would be to reassure your spouse - find out why they were worried about OP and then change behaviors so that the doubts would go away. A couple of years ago, I had worries about OP and H was simply mad at me for asking, unwilling to discuss, and continued to be unattentive. This is when we were on vacation with other couples and really, for me at least, the beginning of our problems.

Well done on the phone call, is it something you can build on? Keep the lines of communication open. Maybe try calling him or texting him once a week? My H responds better to me via the phone/text than he can face to face.

Thanks for the suggestion - I have been paranoid about initiating contact. For two reasons - one is that I haven't taken the "don't pursue" strategy very seriously. The other is that H usually doesn't answer the phone when I call or acknowledge my messages. So, I only call if I have "business" with him. Small progress last night - I had to let him know that his dentist office had left a message on home phone. I got H's vm as usual, but he actually called back to let me know that he got the message. I was on another call, so we just traded vm's.
I may try just a friendly "how are you" call as you suggest - something has to break the stalemate. . ..

[Evie]

Remember to do what works, every situation is unique, maybe you can offer the olive branch. Have you given him the present yet?

If you expect him too not answer your call then you won't be disappointed when he doesn't and small baby step pleased if he does or if he calls you back. Monitor the results by calling/texting him more often. Maybe reevalaute your goals a little?

Interesting what H said when you asked him if there was OW. I used to think that a lot a year ago, b/c my h would only say no when I asked him, he neither denied or defended or re-assured me. Now I don't think there is, I think he would be grooming and taking better care of himself if he was. I think his way of dealing with all this is to emerse himself deeper into work.

What does 'gaslighting' mean?

x eve

[seekpeaceofmind]

Today H will be stopping by my office to sign tax forms. It will be the first time I've seen him since a month ago when he met with me to tell me that he was ready to divorce. Since sometime in the night, I have been full of anxiety about seeing him. I hope that by saying it here, I can diffuse it. I want to reframe in a positive light, so I am telling myself that nothing negative has happened in that month, that no further talk of D has taken place, and that this continues to be a time for both of us to heal and focus on what we want in life.

[Kalni]

Hi seekpeaceofmind,

I'll be waiting to read what happenned. Be positive and have your best smile on.

Good Luck!!!!

Kalni

[seekpeaceofmind]

It was ok - he was here for 5 - 10 minutes. We had a pleasant talk. I noticed that he looked sunburned and asked about that. He said that he has been going to tanning booth - I told him he looked good with some color. He has mentioned a couple of time that he wants to go on a dive vacation in Florida - it sounded like he plans to leave soon. No mention of diving, just people he knows who are down there that he apparently plans to visit. Some of these people I thought he didn't even like. . . .

I had already told him on phone that we are due a big refund and I wanted him to have it so that he could have some extra to spend on vacation, etc. He said we could split it and I said I really just wanted to be nice to him and generous. Then, I got paranoid that maybe this would be seen as controlling or manipulative or whatever negative spin could be put on it. So, because I am usually a very direct person, I asked him - does my offering the $ to you make you feel controlled. He laughed and said no he was glad to take it all. I, of course, went on to explain myself - that I just want good karma and that I think he works hard and should have extra $ to show for it. He seemed to darken when I spoke about my reasons - too much R talk, I guess; or, I could just be analyzing things to death.

Although I am being encouraging about it, his trip to Fla is a little frustrating for me because during the last two years of M, he would never take time off from work. If I wanted to travel, I went by myself. Now, he appears to be much more flexible. But, I bite my tongue and do not point this out - all I am showing him is that I want him to have this time. In the end, it is a positive change for both of us because it is so much more healthy for him than being a work-aholic.

[seekpeaceofmind]

What does 'gaslighting' mean?

My definition of it is when someone tries to make you question your grip on reality.

Here's a link
http://www.helium.com/tm/110746/there-woman-experiences-after