All Hope is lost/Help - Part 2

[seekpeaceofmind]

It's exhausting, isn't it. Sometimes I think the main point of GAL and detaching is to finally get to a point where you don't care if the WAS comes or goes. Then, que sera, sera.

My plan has been to allow him space and time.

You've been spending a lot of time with/near each other lately. Maybe time for a little more space again? It sounds like you have a couple of "dates" coming up. What do you think about refocusing on other things in the meantime and giving yourself a time out?

I do hope that we are able to do this once a year in the future for the boys'. . . . I guess the positive is he feels we can go on holiday again as a family.

I'm impressed that you found the positive in a statement like this - it would just irritate me on so many levels!

p.s. - I'm glad you're back! And, glad that the holiday was good over all. How was it to see D?

[Evie]

Well said Seek. After spending so much time together on Holiday it's hard being back to normal and not seeing so much of him and when i do he's not at his best b/c he's so worn out and tired.

I had thought myself a little more space would be beneficial. Its so obsessing and I get paranoid.

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I do hope that we are able to do this once a year in the future for the boys'. . . . I guess the positive is he feels we can go on holiday again as a family.
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I was upset with this initially. It was as if he he was reminding me that we weren't together, that the time away meant nothing to him in regards to us. I haven't replied to this comment from him.

I sometimes feel if i'm in denial and he really did mean it when he said he didn't love me? If that is the sitch then I wouldn't want to try so hard or be so nice. Just don't know what to do?

[seekpeaceofmind]

I would suggest just ignoring his comment about future holidays as a family.

I don't think you have anything to lose by continuing to try. How do we know if we are in denial? There is a lot of advice on here that says the MLC or WA spouse says things they don't mean including IDLY. My theory has been that I can behave in a way now that guarantees I will push H further away and make it impossible for him to come back or I can try to keep the door open. We may not reconcile, but I don't think I would feel any better about things if I shut the door now. In other words - getting it "over with" now wouldn't help me. But, in my case, we have very little contact, so I'm not extending myself for him and my emotions aren't getting played upon.

[25yearsmlc]

Dear Dis,

I wish you could see, for a minute, how pursuing your behavior appears to me. Your moods, postings and the way you experience your days (your LIFE) are almost exclusively based on your interpretation of HIS actions/words/inaction/silence....
You are giving him all the power over your life. That also effects your kids too,sadly. It shows them they have no control over their own happiness, because you don't.

You went on the trip, to show him...what? That he can leave the family home but still get to "play family guy" when he feels like it, or maybe you thought you could prove that you're easy going and being in the family is a wonderful rewarding thing that isn't all about having expectations of him... The one thing we know he feels is burdened. Right or wrong, he feels unfairly burdened. So you all go on the trip and you say you managed to have fun. Great. Why not let that sink in with him? Why comment on it? YOU wrote him a Thank you note, and to me, it was with obvious expectations of a response from him.

You are teaching him that every time you manage to relax, he really cannot, because you will say or do something to check in with him about a new "status" report....waiting to see, hear or feel a sign of his return or change in the R or his plans, etc. In other words, just when he can maybe take a breather, enjoy some family time, you remind him of the ties you want to maintain.....the very same ties that make him feel tied down.

I know I'm being hard on you, but I think you ought to really talk with a DB counselor b/c I could be way off, but seems to me you do obsess and pursue and you are not very happy with the results... Where are the real 180s?
Substantial 180's, like NOT worrying about the future of your M for a week...

Asking him to take you to his BIL's birthday....(or anywhere for that matter) what are you thinking? Keep the pretense going? WHY? WHY? Does this further your goal? I mean, he is not very afraid of losing you and from what I can tell, he has nothing to worry about there. So, he can have his space when he wants, and he can have his family man time whenever he wants. And you'll lap up whatever scraps he might throw out. Why not just be warm and upbeat when you're around him, so he can contrast that with his lonely life by himself.

My DB coach did say to "applaud loudly" for anything positive that my h did. And that was often hard, given the crappyness of the situation for me. But the DB coach also said that while giving positive affirmation is hugely important, it's negated if it's immediately followed with expectation. That makes them feel manipulated, and probably should. Because it is. A compliment given with a needy silence following it (e.g., "do I also look good?" "Don't you think MY gift was thoughtful as well?" etc). Or pouting and ruminating b/c you didn't get affirmed back, or invited or joined, etc. are all examples of what I mean.

Say or do something positive and end the discussion so it's obvious he doesn't have to say or do anything in response. He can just absorb the positive. Like the vacation, why not just let it sink in for him? HE KNOWS if he had fun. You don't have to confirm it, and then await his response, which of course you've scrutinized and analyzed ad nauseum. You are doing what my sister did when her ex left her and it just does not help.

I cannot say your h will respond the way mine did, when the light went off in MY head, that I'd be alright with or without him. I began looking forward to teaching in Italy for a semester, doing things without having to take HIS work and career into consideration first, which I did for decades. Suddenly there was a lightness in my life, even with the hurt, I knew I'd started to heal. HE noticed too. HE began to wonder things like "where is everyone?" He got very lonely, which is what his choices lead to.
I could not and would not go through this again. Frankly, HE knows this and I think that HELPS. If nothing else, it helps ME to know it. Make sense?

The positives in your sitch are his frequent communications,which I suggest NEVER initiating unless a child is really sick. I would also be the one to end the conversation. You're busy with your new interesting life, not angry. Why would you be angry? (I'm saying this for purposes of behavior around your h) You're not an angry person....you're fun and light hearted, remember?

To sum up, I feel like your GAL mainly consists of tiny 180's immediately followed by looking over your shoulder hoping he noticed and comments... I could be wrong, but That is not really GAL is it? Aren't there classes or things you could now force yourself to make time for, that you always wanted to do? What about a trip somewhere? My trip to Italy, with the kids, helped ME and the KIDS and I think it started some wheels turning in H's mind. Like I said, for ME it was incredibly enjoyable and empowering. It was the opposite of pursuing and just before the trip, H wanted to come. I muttered a bit but said no, because HIS schedule would hinder us (never has enough leave to go anywhere and leaves early or arrives late), etc and we ALWAYS accomodated that. Nope, not for that trip. Later, h started scheduling his vacation to coincide with the kids, like a father/husband should and he did that on his own, instead of me checking 10 times to nag him to put in for leave, etc. Unprecedented...

I'm not enabling that stuff anymore but I'm letting him face the consequences without negative feedback for him. IOW, "oh well, better luck next time" and I think he was really upset we went without him. But that's what happens when you act half single half married, etc.

I have a great job here, but I know what's important in life. If he picks a job over us again, we're done and he'd be a fool. Same with your h. He thinks the grass is greener somewhere else. But The grass is greener where it gets watered the most.

But you really need to let him discover this. I fear you are not. I fear you are not "getting it" as far as detachment. It isn't being cold, per se. But it is definitely NOT being needy.

SOrry if this 2 x 4 hurts too much. Others may see things differently. I just want you to have good times with him WHEN they happen, and let go of it. Move on to your next wonderful adventure in YOUR life. HE doesn't have amnesia. You don't have to remind him. That's pressure on a man who feels it too much just now. Back off. Try to get A DB coach appt if you can b/c I really think you'd get a lot of specifics for yourself.

((( j- ))

[Kalni]

Hi Eve,

I was reading through your sitch again today, and I realised what 25yearsmlc says expressed my thoughts of your status a lot.
I believe also, that you need to do a reality check for yourself ONLY and regroup and focus on you and let him go his way. It is hard and none of us would do that by choice but is all we can do that may have the effect we wish for in the long run.

Take care of yourself,
Kalni

[Kim07]

Dis,

Sorry to interrupt, but could you tell me what does you're H teach? I'm a self-employed swim instructor, even tho i'm an independent contractor at an athletic club, I still have to create my own leads,,,very difficult in these times in the states, where there is no job security in this line of work. Even tho i'm very good at what I do, it is a constant stresser to pay bills and such when going it alone w/no support from my H.

BTW,,i've been going at this for quite awhile, separated and all. Nothing came to light for my H until I truly "LET GO" of my H and had him served w/'D' papers in OCT 07. Suprizingly enough at that time, I had little contact w/him except for kid issues & I made tm's upbeat, short & to the point b/c I had already lost interest in him! What I did for a long time was, to be 'kind' as a friend when he contacted me but if he brought up the R/M talk I made a point to let him know, at the same time, that altho I appreciated the good times we had 'my life was going in a different, positive direction now,,BY MYSELF & W/O HIM IN IT and its' time to move on. I had graciously accepted defeat and moved on knowing that the only thing I could ever change was myself and to concentrate on me!! I got so use to being by myself for almost 5yrs in this house that now, if H comes over for more than 1 day I need space afterwards,,,weird but good. I now have the self-esteem I needed to deal w/H,,I know I can live my life w/o him & be happy b/c i'ved lived it. If I had lived w/him during this time of self discovery, i'd have absolutely NO self-esteem and no courage to stand up for myself and believe in myself that I could achieve anything I wanted to in MY life! I would have never guessed that this would be happening to me but w/the help of my friends on these boards and Micheles' books & guidance I was able to detach and see it for what it was from an outsiders' POV.

NOW the tables are turned,,,He begs and pleads to stop the Legal separation/Divorce, do whatever it takes to save our M. H reads DB & DR w/NO direction from me!

Whats' unexpected is the fact that b/c of where we live he set-up the MC sessions & hes' the one paying for us to go see Michele Weiner-Davis. Shes' excellent of course but not cheap. We are on our 10th appt. w/her. I know we are all different, but what my H has done for me lately: Set-up date nights, took me to exclusive restaurant for Valentines' day night, sent me flowers, sent me 3 cards, set up a trip for us to go to Vegas, V-day wknd, (we had a blast-no kids & no expectations!), bowling, sports games w/the kids, out to eat as a family, staying over at my house and making breakfast for us all (maybe 5 times)when I wanted to sleep in and now the kicker,,a 10 day trip to France during one of his work Expos' w/o the kids. I had told him that I so much appreciated all these wonderful things and his effort but we would not be cancelling the court date b/c of it,,he said 'I know we have to set perameters for our sep. but could we just delay it for 6wks?' So under my lawyer & Micheles' guidance I said 'yes'.

It can happen girl,,,BUT YOU'VE GOT TO 'LET GO' & GAL FOR YOU NOT HIM! When you truly let go is when its' most likely to happen. You can do it even if you feel you don't have the patience,,look at me,,,Michele said that this is not typical of a couple sep. for so long, she was shocked that he came to her(her words) for help at all!

Hope all goes well,
Kim

I hope some of this works for you?!!

[Jen_Jam]

Wow - Kim and 25 years - I have printed out your posts, very good stuff!
This is what I try to explain when I say avoid GAL with the "manic face". I did that - grinned like a loon, pretended I was sooooooooo happy, didn't fool H for a second.

It was only when I started to feel better about myself, that I REALLY focussed on me, when I enjoyed life without worrying about what H was thinking, that things changed.

Hats off to you, Kim & 25 Years