Back on the Roller Coaster - OW still around

[micoms]

FA,

I do think you are looking for the negative in H's actions. I think he wants you to come to his hockey games because he wants to show you off to the guys. I think he is proud of the new glammed up you, keep it up.
If H is in MLC they say it's a roller coaster ride, lots of ups and downs. I think if you have patience you'll see the hills get smaller. They say they poke their heads out of the tunnel and retreat, but the time out of the tunnel keeps getting longer. Remember he has to deal with his pain and guilt. He knows he has hurt you deeply and and is probably ashamed of the things he has done.

Doc said my shoulder was probably hurt on the operating table, they put your arms out straight and over my head for 5 hours. It wasn't from exercise. Had a stress test, passed, cleared to do anything I want. Going to go bowling tonight, was asked to sub for a guy. Your race season starts?, do you run in marathons? I think with rehab I'm probably in the best shape I've been in for a while. At rehab I put 10 to 12 miles on the stationary bike and walk at a 5% incline at 4.4 mph for another ten minutes. My legs will be ready for reffing this year!!

I'm seeing some signs that W may be peeking out of the tunnel. She has called S26 twice in two weeks and is going to S27's house for the second time in 2 weeks also. I've read where the MLCer will reconnect with the kids first. My D24 says mom is staying awake more now also, maybe she's coming out of the depression, hope she's not too embarrassed or ashamed to try to reconnect with me.

Tell you what, pick a night you go to a lounge and I'll go to one and we can go to different lounges together. LOL.

Mike

[fooled again]

Mike,

I like the thought that he's showing me off. But he's definitely poking out of the tunnel and then back in again. He's reconnecting w/ D and I would have thought he'd be trying to reconnect w/ his parents next, but maybe I'm safer. He is very ashamed of what he has done to me, how much he has hurt me - he told me that before. I guess it's difficult to grasp how difficult that must be to deal with, especially when he has spent his entire life being the person that everyone could depend on, and always did. He set himself up to such high standards, and has fallen so far from that pedestal. He knows what a disappointment he is to his parents, which is probably why he hasn't talked to them in over 6 weeks.

But even with the positive signs I have to stay detached, otherwise I will end up climbing back into the front seat of the roller coaster, and I'm just not able to do that anymore - I'm just way too sensitive, and beaten up from the past year and a half. My friend told me today that I look different, in my face and in my eyes. It made me feel good to hear that the shift I feel I have made inside is reflected on the outside.

Maybe that's what's going on w/ your W too. It seems that you have made something of a shift as well. Her reconnecting w/ your kids is a promising development, especially S27 whom you said she had not spoken to in months and months, despite a new grandchild (I hope my memory is serving me - he did recently have a baby, didn't he?). You seem to be a very patient understanding man, and you are strike me as being strong enough to give your W as much time as she needs to find her way out of the tunnel. Don't give up. Make some pizza while you're at it!! Oh I'm so tired, I'm getting silly now.

And strangely, maybe having to heal and make yourself strong again physically is helping you see what you need to do emotionally to get strong. Sucks though that not only did they rip open your chest, but they also screwed up your shoulder. Maybe they could have broken your leg too, while they were at it.

No, not marathons, though I wonder if I could ever do one; maybe a half. I run short (6-8 km) trail races (lots of hills so I have really strong legs). I was never an athlete as a kid (I was afraid of the ball), but when my H left me last March I needed something to focus on. H had done this same series of races the year before and I figured, why not me too. Plus I was hoping to impress him. Turns out, I placed 3rd my first race. I was dumbfounded! There are 5 races in the series, and last year I won the top spot overall for my age division. I didn't win every race, but placed in 2nd or 3rd - so I basically won on points - still, I won. This year I'd like to place 2nd or better in all races, so training basically starts now. But my core was very weak last year, so I'm doing a lot more strength training than I did last year. I was so stressed that I would just put on my running shoes and run off the nervous energy - I was like a string bean on crack. This year I feel much more balanced and stronger. I just have to work on my speed again, and heal that pulled muscle in my leg. (Oh and deal w/ my IT band.) Then watch out for me!!!

Here's something; tell me what you think. H took off for this ski race thing after giving me basically no notice that he wouldn't be taking D for his usual nights this week (-). He has called at least once every day to stay in touch (+). When he first told me, I was choked that he wasn't going to be back Fri night b/c I had plans to go out (-). Today he called to say he was going to be back late Fri afternoon (+), but if he stayed to work the am race, he wouldn't make it back in time to pick up D (-). BUT he said he was willing to forgo the am race if I really needed him to be back so I could go out (++). So I told him that if this is really important to him, (he said it was) then I was willing to work around it, pick up D from school (which I really didn't want to have to do) then he could come get her at the house and I would go out afterwards. I said that I would do this for him b/c I know he will do the same for me when I have something important. He said yes, he would do the same for me.(+++)

I think that was quite positive and I think this is a sign of how maybe he is starting to have the capacity to think about how things affect me. The fact that we were able to negotiate something that worked for both of us was pretty impressive to me. In the past he would have simply said that he wouldn't make it back. Or in the very, very dark times, he would have taken off and not even told me where he was going or that he was going at all. He definitely would not have kept in touch.

So tomorrow will be my first "date" with a new girl friend. I'm pretty excited. I really don't know if going to a lounge by myself is something I would ever do. How about we start by going to a restaurant "separately together" (what's the protocol for something like this - does the guy still pay?). Maybe we could get a whole bunch of us and all go out "separately together". But how do we account for the time difference (I think you are about 3 hours ahead of me)? Okay, now I've got to get some sleep - I'm getting really silly.

Oops - sorry for the long post. Ever since I stopped unloading on my friends (so glad of that) I have so much to say when I get on the boards. Eeek. I've still got to make lunches for tomorrow.

FA

[micoms]

FA,

I think while S keeps poking their head out and retreating we need some detachment, but maybe a little less otherwise when H retreats it would hurt more. What about you asking him out to "show him off"?

S27 has a D 20months old. Before W went over his house before Tday, I had told her to come with me and she wouldn't. I calledS27 to call her and she went over his house. Before that it was July but at his IL's house. Before that was 9/06 after we got back from a cruise.

With the shape I'm getting in maybe I should try a 5k race. Just got home from rehab put 11 miles on the bike. My legs are probably in the best shape in years. Way to go in your races. first overall without any firsts, you'll get there!!

I think what H said about coming home from races if you wanted him to is very positive. He's showing he cares about what you feel or want. You might want him to do the same for you when you have a race if he's not home by then.

The check's in the mail for your dinner, LOL. Next time is your treat. For the time difference I'll just go at 9:00 you go at 6:00. I'll take the seat facing the front door, ROFL!!!

A little update, last weekend I went to a bowling lane I used to bowl at on Fridays and saw some people I knew. I was at D24's house and said I couldn't have dinner, I was meeting a friend for a couple of drinks. Got home and was getting dressed, D19, who's close to her mom, asked why I was in a hurry, told her I'm running late, supposed to meet someone at 9. Then I called my work cell from my new personal cell, which W and D don't know I have, Got out of the shower, D said my phone rang, she didn't recognize the # so she didn't answer. So I made a fake call to tell someone I was running late also and will be there in about 20min. So today I get a call from my best friend, whose W is my W's best friend (they met through us), She asked him if I was dating someone, she said she drove by the house at 5:30 AM and my car wasn't there!!! A little doubt in her mind I guess that I'm no longer sitting around waiting on her. I told my friend what business is it of hers, she wants a D am I supposed to be sitting at home the rest of my life?

Was going to "go out" tonight but D19 is staying home, I think she might tell W if I go out or not. I had parked my car elsewhere in the neighborhood last week. She's checking up on me!!! Maybe she still cares more than she thinks. A little jealousy maybe?

How will our long distance dinner date work out, will my W suspect, ROFL!!!

Mike

[fooled again]

Ah Mike, you're cracking me up. What we really need are those video phones. Then we could really go out to dinner separately together - just put our phones on the table across from us! As you know, I love Italian, but I know a great Indian place I could go to. Or sushi. But then a great burger is always a hit w/ me, but it has to be a REAL burger. With an ice cold CANADIAN beer (sorry, your beer isn't great - except for this one beer I had when I was in Boston, can't remember the name of it). Basically, I eat everything, so you would have to choose. What am I talking about, we could each choose whatever we want. And no one will suspect a thing! We should probably go Dutch, though, less paperwork!

I did end up going out tonight for a couple of drinks w/ some people I used to work with. It was okay, but I did get asked to come to a couple of other nights out in the next week or two. Trouble tonight was they are smokers and my pretty pink lungs were dying for oxygen. I had to keep stepping out for some air. When I did I noticed a few guys noticing me, so that was kindof nice for my ego.

But earlier, when my H came to pick up D tonight, he was pretty quiet to me and seemed put out - I was rushing around getting ready to go our and didn't rush up to him to say hello and kiss him like I usually do. I asked what was the matter and he said nothing, so I left it at that. (Another 180 - when we were together I would have continued to push him for an answer, saying that I know something's bugging him, what is it, why won't he tell me, and it would deteriorate into a whole lot of bad feelings. Then I asked him to drop me off at the train station and he gave me a really tender kiss and told me to be careful and have fun and to call him later if I want. I did and we talked for a little while about what he has been doing with the ski races. I was the one to end the call and say goodnight. He said ILY first, so I said it back. But I NEVER say it first, only when he says it.

I have been trying to basically give my H all the space he needs and more - I said to my friend, I'm giving him enough rope to either hang himself or pull himself out. What's been happening is that HE calls me, HE asks me to do things w/ him. It's pretty rare that I initiate a call to him or a text to him, but I do it every so often so that he doesn't think I've actually fully moved on. I suppose you could say I'm giving him only a taste of me, enough to make him want more. I think if I made him believe I was dating someone, he would backslide in a major way, since this is not just making him realize what he's losing. MLC is far more complicated than that and the depression has to be taken into consideration. I just want him to know that the possibility is there that I could date someone if I really wanted to. I think that is enough for now.

And that's probably what you're talking about when you say detaching less. I say that I'm detaching, but that doesn't mean I'm going dark - far from it. What I'm doing is I'm giving up the feeling that I am responsible for this situation. And it is surprising what a difference that change has made for me.

It sounds like you are weaving a pretty complicated little web of deception, which is good in a sense because it is making your W curious, but I hope you are being careful too. I suspect that if she really believed that you have found someone else it might push her back into her depression, into feeling sorry for herself and all that negative stuff that keeps the MLCer in the tunnel. I think your W cares very much, more than she wants to admit to even herself.

So tonight I'm going to be early and getting some sleep - I'm chronically sleep deprived. Mike, if you do decide to run a 5k, I'd be cheering for you. I guess it's still pretty snowy where you are, but my outdoor running season is about to start (it was 15 degrees here today!). It's just this damn leg of mine. Oh well, long walks with my dog can only help.

Take care.
FA

[micoms]

FA,

What about using laptops with web cams! I'm a steak and potatoes guy, haven't had a steak since before surgery, maybe be time to cheat a little. We have some good beers down here but they are from small breweries usually. Cincinnati had over 145 breweries at one time. I'll agree that the national brands aren't that great.

I know what you mean about the smoke. Ohio passed a law that prohibits smoking in public buildings, all bars, restaurants, bowling lanes etc are non smoking now. Smokes have to go outside to smoke and have to be so many feet from the door.

Way to DB tonight with the 180's and ending the phone call first.I wonder if your H was down because you were going out?

Coach said to be real vague about who I'm meeting for drinks or whatever. I'm surprised W even cares if I'm dating after all she wants the D so she can pursue her married OM. I've never said I'm seeing someone, just didn't deny it when D's BF said I had a date. I'm trying to stay up to see if W drives by the hose on her way to work again tonight. D19 was here after work and went to her sisters house to spend the night, told her I'm going to meet a friend to have a drink with later. Haven't left the house. We'll see if she drives by, if she does is it a little jealousy?

As far as running a 5k, my W said that was something she wanted to do. They say when you ref a soccer game you get in a mile to a mile and half in a game. I'll usually do three games on saturday and three or four on sunday. Unless it's a tournament, then I will ddo 6 games a day. I've reffed as many as 9 in a day, with only a half an hour break after the fifth game. Boy was I whipped that night!!

Mike

[fooled again]

Journaling,

I'm having a bit of a rough time detaching today. I guess H's cycling is starting to get to me. I guess I'm okay with the small cycles, when he's out of touch for a day and then back again, but when it's a major withdrawal, I really start to feel discouraged, that my M is dying and there is little hope and the best thing for me to do is walk away. But then, as my Mom says to me, what would you be doing differently if you did determine that your M was over? Again, it's a matter of state of mind.

I had a little cry last night as I was doing the dishes after I had put D to bed. I had just spend a wonderful day w/ D, gone to watch part of a feis (Irish dance competition), played soccer w/ D and the dog in the backyard (which I spent a couple of hours cleaning up, raking, pruning, etc.), made lasagne with D (she loves to cook), which was delicious, and then after supper I gave D a bath and after we pretended the power was out and read fairy stories by candlelight. I was struck by the thought that it was a really good day - it used to be the kind of day my H used to really enjoy. The kind of simple family day that used to be enough for him. Instead, yesterday he was 50 miles away (literally) with people I don't know doing I don't know what and it felt as though my D and I occupied no part of his attention at all. I feel forgotten, swept aside and unimportant. Hmm. Sounds familiar.

So perhaps I was overly optimistic when I thought that H might be in withdrawl - he's probably still in replay, or maybe back there for a reprise. Again, I have no idea whether or not OW is still in the picture. You know, I think this would be alot easier to take if I KNEW she was not an issue.

But then, H is not saying I'm the problem, that he never loved me, that he wants a D - he's not saying anything, and I'm not asking any questions. Last time I asked, about a month ago, he told me he wanted to be a family again. When I asked how we could do that, he said he didn't know. He gives me these long lingering kisses, touches my face and tells me he loves me (only on the phone, though). I know he still loves me, but...

He is still not working, though he sent me a text today saying he thinks he got the job he has been hoping for and he would call me when he knows for sure. This after not hearing anything from him at all yesterday. So a big part of his cycling and withdrawl must be part of his depression and anxiety about finding a job. He hasn't given me any child support (hasn't been able to) in months, and doesn't even ask about how I am managing financially and I am not about to tell him that I am barely keeping my head above water. I have a mortgage to cover, bills, groceries and my D's activities, all on just my salary, which, though it is pretty good, relatively speaking, is not enough and I am watching my debt load get bigger. I don't even know if he even thinks about it anymore.

So I guess as he cycles, I cycle in my own way. Each time he pulls away, I add a layer to the shield I have created to protect my emotional self, and detach a little more. Each time he comes closer, I peel off a layer. I keep reading the success stories to find something to keep me going, to keep me hopeful, but it is very difficult to keep that candle burning.

Just dumping some thoughts and feelings so that I can get back to the work of living my life. Thanks for reading and being there for me.

FA

[micoms]

FA,

Instead of focusing on how far you are away from where you want to be, focus on how far you have come, add up all the baby steps. He's come from wanting to leave you and D for OW to wanting to be a family again. That's a huge step for him to make. He's also saying ILY's and initiating contact, texts and phone calls. You don't know what's going through his mind when he's away. It could be that he is feeling the same way, missing hid D and W and the life you shared, knowing he caused this problem and doesn't know how to fix it.


"Last time I asked, about a month ago, he told me he wanted to be a family again. When I asked how we could do that, he said he didn't know."

You could have used your DB techniques here, sit down or talk to H on the phone, set goals, small ones and build on them. Family outing every weekend, a date night for just the two of you every other week, ask if you can come to his hockey games when you have D, a phone call three nights a week to say goodnight before bed, build it up to every night. It might be time to pursue him just a little to let him know you want him back with actions and not words.

I know about getting depressed when things seem to stand still. Even though I'm on AD's I still get down in the dumps also. Just remember to look at where you have come from to where you are now, don't focus on how far it is from your ultimate goal.

Mike

[fooled again]

Hi Mike,

I'm very hurt and confused by his lack of contact over the past few days. It seemed as though things were going, albeit slowly, in a positive direction. I was being patient and not pushing, not talking about R or M or asking many questions. Then this ski race volunteering thing comes along and he has disappeared, exactly the way he did when he was in the midst of his A. This leads me to suspect that OW has made a reappearance, since she has a place where the races were being held and she knows alot of the people in this ski racing community.

So to say think about how far we've come, right now it feels as though we are back to where we were a year ago. In fact, it was a year ago this week that H moved out (snuck out) without telling me the truth about why. The other thing is that next week will mark our 24th anniversary since we started dating. It's very difficult not to get emotional right now.

No, I don't know what's going on in his head. I suspect if he did not get the job, he's very depressed and perhaps he went to OW for comfort. Or he is alone. I though for sure he would call last night to let me know about the job, but he didn't even answer D's goodnight call. I finally left him a vmail at about midnite saying I was calling to say goodnight and to see how he was doing (pursuing a little) I've received no call or text in response. My gut tells me that his avoidance of me is not a good thing, that it has something to do w/ OW this w/end. No, I'm not a mindreader, but his was a long term EA/PA and you know what they say about no contact... I have to realistic.

And maybe it's time for me to face up to the fact that now may not be the time for me to be barking up this tree, if there will ever be a time for that again. Maybe I need to face the fact that he has way too much sh*t on his plate to deal with and I need to be away from him, for my own sake. I don't really know how to do that. I don't know if I should just show him by my actions that I'm done playing games and I'm getting off the roller coaster, or if I should let him know. Eventually I would hope he would ask what was going on in my head, but he is most likely not concerning himself w/ my feelings at all, nor his D's feelings.

And he has this weird, unrealistic notion of how mature D is - he told her he was going to buy her a cell phone. She is 7 years old! How wacked out is that? No concern about her emotional well being, just taking her skiing (I guess to get her involved in his new life and world w/ his new friends) and buying her gifts. He lets her watch movies that are much too old for her as well, leaving me to deal w/ her fears and anxieties b/c she can't talk to him truthfully about her feelings. No, it's time for me to go dark, except for communicating about D.

What I would really like to say to him is this:

"I love you, I will always love you. But I told you months ago that I am unwilling and unable to play these games with you anymore. I want to be your friend, if that's possible, but more importantly I want to be able to co-parent D w/ you. Whatever it is you need to do in your life has nothing to do w/ me. You need to do what you need to do to find your way, and it appears that you need to do this on your own as you don't talk to me about it and you need alot of space. I have always wanted you to come home and for us to be a family again, and if the time ever comes that you do want to talk about that with me, I will listen. But I need to move on with my life and find my own way.

I only ask one thing from you: that you do not bring anyone else into D's life right now, and I agree to do the same. D is too fragile and sensitive and is having a very difficult time dealing w/ our separation right now. She is not able to talk to you, even though I encourage her to, but she has talked to me at length about her anxieties and fears, her sadness and low self esteem. I really didn't want to tell you about it b/c I was afraid you would take it as my blaming you - I am not. But the reality is that she is only 7 yrs old and is very hurt and confused and she needs all the love and support we can both give her without making her life any more complicated than it already is. I would like to communicate with you regularly about D and other household and financial matters. I also think it's time we had a formal separation agreement and discuss finances and what we want to do with the house.

I am not saying there is no hope for us. I am simply saying that I cannot live my life this way. I will not try to guess what you are thinking or feeling, but if you ever want to talk, know that I will always be there to listen. I want you to be happy, whatever that means to you, even if that means living my life without you."

Okay, now I have to get back to work. But I needed to write that down so that I don't forget what to say when that time comes, which I think is very soon.

FA

[micoms]

FA,

I don't know what is in your H's head right now, I've never been there. I read somewhere that the S has to greive over the death of the arrair with the OP. Cold this be what is going on? He could be greiving and feels confused as to why he's feeling that way, add in the regret and guilt over what he's done and a sense of worthlessness over not getting the job. Still no excuse for not answering or returning calls from D.

Maybe you could try what I did. I told my D24's boyfriend I was going out for a couple of drinks with a friend. W overheard and thinks I'm dating, parked my car a couple of streets over. She drove by and didn't se my car in front of the house and jumped to the conclusion that I spent the night "with a girl". W hasn't contacted me yet, but she has asked D19, S27, D24's BF and my best friend if I'm dating. This has had the biggest reaction from my W since the bomb. What would H do if he thought you had a date? He might check up on you like my W did. Now she has a seed of doubt planted in her head. Maybe she is jealous, maybe your H thinking you're moving on will make him jealous also.

I think yor letter is a good thing, rewrite it add to it, pour your feelings into it. Just don't ever send it to H. It will fell good just to get the words out of your head. I know I've written a couple of letters that I never sent, filed them away. Maybe someday I'll give them to her.

I don't think you are where you were a year ago. H says now he wants to be a family again but doesn't know how or what to do to acheive that. A year ago he said he was done. He may still see OW, but now you are the OW to her. Now's the time to turn the tables.

Mike

[fooled again]

Mike,

I read somewhere that the S has to greive over the death of the arrair with the OP. Cold this be what is going on? He could be greiving and feels confused as to why he's feeling that way, add in the regret and guilt over what he's done and a sense of worthlessness over not getting the job.

Yes, you could be right, that could be what is going on, what H is feeling and why he is not contacting me. I think if he got the job he would have told me, at least in a text. I could be wrong - maybe he's out celebrating w/ OW. Or maybe he ran into OW this w/end and ended up in bed w/ her and now he feels totally guilty and confused. It really is pointless to speculate; I realized this today.

I tried to call him once more today - no answer. So I left him a vmail msg:

"I'm not sure what to make of your silence, but I'm going to assume that you don't want to talk to me so I'll stop calling. I hope you are okay and that you don't feel as though you can't call or talk to me; you can. But D is missing you. If you could take a minute tonight to answer her call at bedtime or call her back, I know it would make her very happy. There are a few things I need to tell you about D's activities this week. I'm assuming D will be staying w/ you Weds & Thurs. Wed, of course, is her dance class and Thurs she needs to be picked up at school by 4:30 as she has theatre class. Friday is a school event which I will be taking her to, so if you want to come it starts at 4:30. If not and you want her to still stay w/ you, let me know where and when you want to pick her up. I guess that's all for now. Talk to you later, I hope."

I needed to convey some information about this week so the contact was necessary. I made sure my voice had a neutral tone and I did not say anything that betrayed my feelings. He may think I am cold and don't care about him - this is what I worry about, especially if he did not get the job and he is wallowing in self pity and depression right now. Whatever is going on, I simply cannot chase him, but I do wonder if he would hurt himself as I really don't know how bad his depression is. He is in a pretty bad state financially, so I expect it's pretty bad. I would rather he is self medicating with OW than taking his life, obviously, and I can only be flip about this b/c I truly don't believe he would do this. But it does make me want to drive by his place to make sure, except for the fact that the last thing I need is to see OW's car there - I've already had that wonderful experience and don't need to go there ever again.

I do have plans for Weds and Thurs, and I will do my best to give as little info as possible. I was even thinking of using your tactic to park my care somewhere else so H thinks I did not come home (that would be Thurs night). But I do feel okay, kindof strong, so I guess not only is my sitch not the same as it was a year ago, but I am not the same person I was a year ago. I have to recognize the progress, as you said. Thanks Mike.

FA