Make things better by looking ahead....

[jethro]

Lots of soul-searching here, Sage. I, myself, am very familiar with what you're talking about. It's interesting that when we DB, we take other stuff on to better ourselves and to distract us from the vacillations of our S. Thing is, at the same time, we begin to lose sight of other things because we are so very focused on working things out. I guess it's all about balance.

I too am more distracted at work, not as sharp, don't feel as motivated about doing certain things... Additionally, I am also familiar with how much to say to my W and when to say it, and if I do say it, how will it be interpreted.

I have to say, I think part of the distancing from other things is a defense mechanism we have. In a way, we need to pull back on certain things to concentrate on the task at hand...otherwise, we'd be overwhelmed. I believe the trick is to regain the balance in our life while piecing our M back together. It's not easy and I'm still having troubles at work. Heck...we only have so much energy and that energy can only be distributed to so many things at once.

I want to have an honest, loving marriage that feels positive for both of us. I want my marriage to be built on the foundations of trust and fidelity. I see us sometimes locked in a cycle that seems to just not lead to those things...I'm not sure I know how to be the person that he feels as though he can open up to. I'm not sure I know how to inspire his honesty or intimacy. I'm not sure I know how to encourage him to face whatever fears he has.

We're all unique beings... As such, each of us has different needs. Your H's needs will ALWAYS be different than yours. His interpretations of things will ALWAYS be different than yours. I think the trick is to try to understand each other and grow together on this journey of learning. It will never end. We always need to try. Sometimes we are more connected to our Ses than at other times. Jeez...it's just a constant ebb and flow, ying and yang, etc.

I think Sage needs a break. Try to ride the tide for a bit. Relax...your H loves you and is home and willing to work on you guys. You can be more yourself...not as guarded...more open. You've worked hard and have won...

jethro

[eskb]

Sage -

Do you know that you are one of my heroes, my inspirations? I love your introspective ramblings, and feel so many of the same things - albeit, I'm far behind you in this whole A-recovery process.

So, what am I pissed about? where to start? well, I've been realizing of late that pretty much every element of my life has suffered in deference to my m. and the sitch for the last year. Now, that was my OWN doing -- h never asked me to put aside all of those things -- in fact, he'd probably say that it was a big mistake TO ignore them and he'd be right -- but like it or not, I've put so much on the back burner and devoted all of my thoughts, energy, etc. to trying to figure out my m. So, now I look around and realize that I've left myself w/o ANY other support systems! I take no pride from my work anymore because I can barely concentrate, I spend hardly any time on my volunteer job, have distanced myself from my family and friends -- partly because I didn't feel as though I could be with them since I didn't want to share what was going on -- and partly because I thought that I needed to be HOME to, I don't know, keep ow from being around or something. stupid, stupid, stupid

I'm going through the same things now: can't concentrate at work (hey, I'm supposed to be writing a business proposal right now), haven't spent nearly enough time with or energy on my kids, and have been making excuses to get out of playing tennis and golf (both of which I love) to spend more time at home (partly to work on the M, partly, truth be told, to make sure that she isn't contacting the OG). While in crisis mode, you made your 1st priority your only priority. Totally reasonable. In the realm of self-destructive behavior, there are far worse crimes than that. You've gotta cut yourself a break.

I feel like I've stopped knowing how to be me with him...my own fault -- I'm really not applying blame! And, isn't he unable to be himself with ME? Why would he need to lie otherwise? why would he need to have an a? I want to have an honest, loving marriage that feels positive for both of us. I want my marriage to be built on the foundations of trust and fidelity. I see us sometimes locked in a cycle that seems to just not lead to those things...I'm not sure I know how to be the person that he feels as though he can open up to. I'm not sure I know how to inspire his honesty or intimacy. I'm not sure I know how to encourage him to face whatever fears he has.

This, too, is me. My worries beyond the present (getting my W to totally give up the OG and recommit) have to do with really being able to meet my W's emotional needs. It's kind of funny. I've always thought of her as the expressive one. She's constantly on the phone, loves talking to people. And I'm the one who'd rather let the machine take a message most of the time. But, when the talk gets serious, I'm the one who is more willing to share, to express doubts and fears, to open myself up. And she has found it difficult to do that with me (one of the primary factors for the A, I now think), not that I've particularly encouraged that in the past.

For me, the A has certainly stilted that sort of discussion for the foreseeable future. It's hard to have any sort of serious discussion, even on topics totally unrelated to the A. We're both kind of walking on eggshells these days. But when we can move on past this, I still wonder about whether my W will be able to open up to me. Am I too critical? Unhelpful? A bad listener? Do I act uninterested or maybe as if I'm too intellectual?

Anyway, recognize how well you have done, largely because of all of your efforts. Do you see it? I often read your posts. Most of the time I end up thinking, "Man, she should just relax and cut herself a break".

That said, I know that's hard to do. I obsess about this stuff every day. Maybe one of these days I'll try to take my own advice!

Brian

[shinybear]

Hi Sage

I'll join the chorus in telling you that I'm having some of the same issues myself.

I don't kow how often CJ is reading the bb, but I too have to get over the self censorship. After all this is our forum, our support. If we cannot be honest about our feelings here.....The way I'm starting to look at it is if he IS checking out my thread, perhaps what I feel reluctant to bring up face to face will at least reach him somehow.

I too have thoughts of OW still being in the picture, of me being "stronger" this time and ending it, putting my foot down etc.

I think that part of it is the let-down (for me) of things going "back to usual". Now, for me, this is not enough. I too wonder if it was "too easy" for CJ to "get away" with what he did.

I suppose the moral here is that this is a seemingly normal part of this whole process. The "what ifs? do arise. Would I actually be happier now if I had kicked him out? Not sure, not likely, but who knows?

I guess we just have to let go of the what ifs and take it from here, as you seem to be doing very well.

Shiny

[charcoal]

heya sage

there's tons of good stuff in this thread! omg!
you know, even on the other side, I feel very much the same way

you said "afraid of losing"... that struck me as I am very skeered of that myself


cya!

[BRIDGET]

Well, now I'm relieved that we are NOT putting things
back together ...

But seriously, Sage -- it's awesome, your insight
and how well you share it.

I've felt it all -- it's so great to know I'm not
crazy (or alone) going through this.

While H and I were piecing I went through all
the same things -- all of them -- and so many
others are still experiencing them -- that it
must be a normal part of the journey.

We're in a kind of a "lost and found" experience.

I love how you share, and I love how you talk back
to your demons -- coming into the light after all.

I'm not in recovery stage right now -- we're truly
separated and that's what's up to deal with -- so
I'll just take notes for the day when ...

Thanks, Sage, you're very cool.

Bridget

[Jeannine]

I realized yesterday that I'm starting to feel angry. Up til now, most of my feelings have been centered around fear and sadness –

You can’t run from what’s natural, it will catch up with you eventually. Don’t you think that you have valid enough reasons for feeling anger? As I’ve told you in the past, you are going to have to let that emotion have it’s day in the sun or face the dragon’s tail when it comes back on you.

Again, I'm mad at myself –

Tut, tut, tut. I’m going to chime in with the rest of the folks here – “Cut yourself some slack!”

I guess what I'm saying is that there's a part of me that wonders if I sent him the message that an a is "ok" in some shape or form by virtue of the way that I handled things

In my opinion, for what it’s worth, I think as our situations morph, so must our method of operation. Initially, putting our needs and feelings to the side and focusing totally on the direction in which we allow our energies to flow, is a necessary part of the process. It is a daunting, exhausting task that we go through everyday in order to create the vacuum effect needed to draw our wandering spouse back. So naturally, it's difficult and scary to let go of the rigid particulars of that practice. However, I really believe that when you finally walk out of the house of horrors, you must begin to bring your needs and feelings back into the room. What good is it to have your marriage in tact if you’re not there to enjoy it?

A few times over the last week, for the first time really, h has made some comments about being "a mean man" or obliquely referenced what happened -- both times I made some comment that brushed it aside. I'm not saying I should have taken him to task or lambasted him -- maybe he was even trying to start a conversation? Anyway, I just smiled and blew off his comments for fear of adding to his guilt or whatever. I didn't mean it to be controlling but how is NOT validating his bad feelings helpful? ugh.

Gads, sweetie pie! Maybe he needs to get that crappy stuff out into the open and needs to know that you hear him and that his words have weight. In denying your feelings about this stuff, you are denying his too.

I guess what I'm saying is that there's a part of me that wonders if I sent him the message that an a is "ok" in some shape or form by virtue of the way that I handled things.

Going back to what I said before, it’s a matter of morphing. You did the thing that worked after the bomb blew up. You did what you had to do. You’re in new terrain now.
Again, this is just my opinion, I think that you { this includes 'we'} need to make small, reasonable lines in the sand as the relationship strengthens. Otherwise, perhaps the message of “I’ll tolerate anything, indefinitely” will be perceived by your H. I’m not saying to make ultimatums or toss away the DB principles, just let your H take some responsibility for his past and present behavior in regard to OW. Show him some respect and tenderness toward your own needs and feelings.

Can you tell that I'm tired and spent?

As you already know from my thread, I’m right there with you.

Jeannine

[KAW]

Hiya Sage,

Let us know how we can help, too.

You already have!!

Sorry I only have enough time to kinda glean thru here and I see that the good times are steadily increasing over the bad. That you are winning the battle against your demons, even if it is still a struggle at time.

I saw my good buddy Tbone had just dropped by jethro's thread with some of his wise words. They are worth repeating here as the can be a tremedous help.

"If you trust too much you may be deceived, but if you trust too little you will be TORMENTED."

Sage, if you could consciously quantify the amount of pain of being decieved vs. by tormenting yourself over a longer period of time, I believe you are being hurt more from the torment. You're putting yourself thru your greatest pain of all. Now that I'm experiencing the deceit again for a second time, I can tell you the pain is not nearly as bad as the first time, nor does it outweigh the torment I put myself thru.

So bottom line is to convince yourself that no matter what happens in the future it will never be as bad as the pain you are putting yourself thru with your fears.

I hope this helps...

'til later,
KAW

[sage]

Hey LL -

it is scary to be loved unconditionally isn't it.

It sure is. Not to be melodramatic but I have NEVER been loved that way -- and I've been dramatically unsuccessful at loving h that way. He and I come from two hugely different backgrounds in that regard.

I know this is going to sound perverse but since I grew up with conditional love I find it someone comforting (but TIRING!) -- In theory (just in theory) if love WERE conditional -- you could be your BEST self and GET it. When it's unconditional -- it's uncontrollable...and I've always been all about controlling my surroundings.

Working on it...

Letting myself be loved and loving him w/o reservation -- now that sounds nice (but scary).

regarding a display of strength....well I can tell you that my h's ow once said to me that it's easier to keep the family together...that's a load of crap..much much easier to throw it all away and start a new. you are showing huge strength.

LL

Thanks for this -- I know it's true. more and more I'm amazed that you have not gone over and punched miss cancer pants in the nose! (has she moved yet???)

Sage

[sage]

jethro --

I have to say, I think part of the distancing from other things is a defense mechanism we have. In a way, we need to pull back on certain things to concentrate on the task at hand...otherwise, we'd be overwhelmed. I believe the trick is to regain the balance in our life while piecing our M back together. It's not easy and I'm still having troubles at work. Heck...we only have so much energy and that energy can only be distributed to so many things at once.

It really helps to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way...I DO think that Piecing is about regaining the balance, in our lives and our m's.

I think Sage needs a break. Try to ride the tide for a bit. Relax...your H loves you and is home and willing to work on you guys. You can be more yourself...not as guarded...more open. You've worked hard and have won...

One break coming up! Wonder how much physical and mental relaxation I can fit into one weekend...

Sage

[sage]

Sage -

Do you know that you are one of my heroes, my inspirations? I love your introspective ramblings, and feel so many of the same things - albeit, I'm far behind you in this whole A-recovery process.

Brian -- Thanks so much for these kind words! I'm glad that we have been able to support each other on our threads...BTW -- you are doing so well. But, you know that I hope!

I'm going through the same things now: can't concentrate at work (hey, I'm supposed to be writing a business proposal right now), haven't spent nearly enough time with or energy on my kids, and have been making excuses to get out of playing tennis and golf (both of which I love) to spend more time at home (partly to work on the M, partly, truth be told, to make sure that she isn't contacting the OG).

Sounds like we're on exactly the same path here...DO take a bit of advice from me and don't sequester yourself in the house thinking you can keep w from contacting om...you'll drive yourself crazy. I think the sooner you can abandon that attempt at control the better off you'll feel.

This, too, is me. My worries beyond the present (getting my W to totally give up the OG and recommit) have to do with really being able to meet my W's emotional needs.

It's been a constant refrain on my thread..."I don't know how to be a good w to him" ... screw it. I do know how to be a good (albeit imperfect) wife -- AND when I don't, I'm willing to be told how to improve.

But when we can move on past this, I still wonder about whether my W will be able to open up to me. Am I too critical? Unhelpful? A bad listener? Do I act uninterested or maybe as if I'm too intellectual?

I struggle with this all the time....I noticed early on that I was often distracted when h was talking with me...now I'm sure to stop EVERYTHING else and listen fully. What's hard for me is that often the important nuggets of info from him don't come when we're sitting down talking to each other...they come when we're doing other stuff and then wham I realize that I've missed an opportunity to relate to something important to him...the other thing I have is that I do not listen well when a hot button of mine is pushed -- I get too emotional and it shuts me down.

It'll be interesting to see what observations you come up with in your sitch...

Sage