Finding Supermom - #4

[Tomato]

Jenny

Until SG should come around, I guess I will have to do . .lol.

While not a sucess story yet, I could be one in making (or so I would like to think at this moment).

As far as noting any changes in sitch and monitoring them, I think you started to answer yourself by saying that you ought to examine things on a micro-level. I would think that this would be most helpful because the larger picture tends to cause you to pull in more emotions on the potential track of things and much less on the real facts at hand. Remember we don't want emotionally infused analysis (too error prone)but rather factual view of things which can be extracted fm looking at very small things that have already taken place. Too large of a look at things causes you to tend toward mixing in future predictions and speculations.

So I would say keep your focus trained on the micro changes. And to add to that, I think it might be wise if you type them in your posts so that you and all other can see them. Then you can gain the insight of whoever comes along to provide feedback on these specifics.

I hope you find something out of this that might work.

Gotta say my prayers for me, you and all others. Then off to the 'sandman'.

[JennyF]

Thanks Tomato. This is good advice. What I'm trying to not to do is over analyze the tiny details looking for hope (false hope).
Having said that I need somthing!

I'm going to paste that post of mine again here...I replied to MO2 and it got a little lengthy...so I want to ensure if anyone is stopping by they catch this as my last post.
Sorry to be repetitive!


Ok...I feel like I'm settling into acceptance a bit. But I'm a little confused with myself.
Am I accepting that it's over? Or that we're in a holding pattern and anything is still possible? I don't know.

So, from my understanding...my H is in a transitional life crisis. He will have to go through this whole thing as a process. Not over it or under it, or around it, but through it. This is going to take time...a lot of time. Especially because it will entail the R with OW ending...and that doesn't look (to me anyway) like it's going to happen any time soon. I mean H is talking about splittling car insurance with her and maybe buying a house??
Every time I think of those things I just remember, "Don't believe 100% of what you hear and only 50% of what you see".

He's moving fast to get things done (name is off the bills for crying out loud). I had anticipated that it would get worse before it gets better...and it is.

I've been thinking a lot about B's post the other night about DB'ing being about more than the LRT. I need to focus on my 180's, GAL, and that good stuff. I need to stay solution oriented.
But here is my question...how do I monitor results when nothing is changing? Does that mean it is not working or that it's just going to take a LONG time? How do I know if what I am doing is working or not working? As a matter of fact...things ARE changing because we're getting closer and closer to a D.

I'm trying to 'think small' to notice the little changes in H. There are tiny things...but most of the time I think I'm stretching it just to find them.

Also, many of the changes in me H might not even see. We are communicating as parent's...but it is strictly business.
I feel as though this has been part of my DB'ing strength...that I don't get mushy or sappy with him at all. How do I percieve if that is working or not? I don't feel like the timelines in the DR of monitoring after a couple weeks are relevent to me. H is too far gone for that quick a turnaround. I'm afraid to try something different because it may backfire...and backslide.
Having said that I'm feeling the urge to reach out to him right now. I don't know why. Maybe because I've been so detached now for so long, I miss him. He hasn't really changed...but I'm feeling drawn to him.
Since I started to fill out the financial sheets it brought up a lot of memories...he had to fill out those same sheets and I can't imagine that nothing crossed his mind? Is that possible? So I guess that's why I feel like I want to try to comminicate with him on the level. But I just don't think it's a good idea. I think I need to hold my ground and just keep making conistent, permanent changes in myself. These aren't happening as quickly as I would like. But I'm trying not to rush myself either because they have to be real. And at the same time I don't want to ignore some of the feelings I do have as I'm working through them. That's how I know I'm not ready to forgive H for leaving me and our family a month before the baby was born. But I'm working toward it. (forgiveness would be easier if he would just come back!!!)
So, this is my journey as much as his...I'm focusing on me.

BUT...how do I monitor if what I'm doing is right in order to change it if it isn't? If he proceeds with the house selling talk and all of those matters, do I assume it isn't working? Or just that this is part of the process?

Any DB expertise would be much appreciated! Especially from of any success stories if any of you frequent my thread.
SG...do you still stop by? Help!

J~

[JennyF]

^
I'm bumping myself!!
SG...are you out there??
J~

[JennyF]

What a night.

H watched the kids here at the house tonight while I went out (coffee with a friend).
When I got home, he was being really nice to me...so I knew something was coming. He asked if he should give me the letter from his lawyer now...because he wanted to be here when I read it. He had is sad eyes on tonight...not his mad eyes. But still still somehow emotionless nonetheless.

He clarified right away that this isn't a separation agreement. The letter says that he basically will run out of money if he continues to support me, so we need to sell the house or I need to buy him out. It gives a deadline of spring 2008. Yes...this spring. Isn't it February?
It had some other stuff regarding the kids and child support. Says I need to respond within 10 days...and it's dated Feb 12th. But H was adamant...and this is why he said he needed to be here when I read i...he was adamant that those dates weren't firm and that I didn't have to respond right away. He said for me just to proceed with my financial statements with lawyer and we'll deal with it. He said that he is just glad things are moving period.

I started crying as soon as I read the first line.
"Re: Lastname and Lastname
Please be advised that I have been retained by Mr. H with respect to the dissolution of your relationship."
He kept trying to say not to worry about the letter, it shouldn't be anything that will upset me, it's all stuff we've discussed.
I said yeah...and then I read him that line.
I truly saw him having (or trying to have) empathy for me.

I was rocking S and fighting the tears. But they just kept coming. He leaned against the counter and said he wasn't sure what to say. I just shoot my head. I said, "there is so much I want to say...but I just I know it doesn't matter"
This went back and forth a bit and he was almost prompting me to talk. I said there is just so much I feel like we never got to say to eachother. And I just wanted to say that I'm sorry that I couldn't make you happy. I'm sorry about all of the things I took for granted and what I'd give to change it.
I told him that I look at our kids and I can't imagine how bad it must of been with me, to give up the time you are giving up with them. He said it hurt him to be away from them, I said yeah, but that's still not the better option.
I said, do your remember when your Dad left and you wondered what was so good about his OW that made her the better option than his family? I said, I wonder that about you. What is so good about her that it's worth giving that up.
He said that his Dad left his kids altogether, and he's not doing that. I said, but you're giving up so much more that it could be.
The whole time he had the sad eyes on, but was still so decisive. We weren't speaking loud or angry at all. It was the closest conversation we've had in a LONG time. But he still didn't show any emotion or connection to me.
We talked about that. I told him that I missed our life. That I missed him. He was my best friend and now I don't have that person to talk to or anything. I said I know we were having problems, but I still thought we had that connection. He just nicely reconfirmed that it has been gone in him for a long long time.
I told him that I just wanted a chance to start over as friends. He said that's what he wants, he said from the beginning of this he wanted to be friends.
I said the difference is that you want to end as friends and I want to start as friends. He didn't respond.
He said he feels guilty and he knows he's not perfect. But this is what he feels is best.
I told him that I wanted him to be happy. That I wish it could be with me, but that I just want him to be happy.
I also told him that I'll always be here for him if he needs me.
He said that he wanted to commend me for how well I've handled everything over the last 5 months. And he said that I'm an amazing mom. For some reason that made the tears flow harder.
I told him that I know he thought that wasn't the same strong and independant person that I used to be...but I am.
He said he doesn't mind having these conversations, but he still doesn't feel that he'll be able to give me the answers I seem to need. What does that mean? I feel like that means because maybe he doesn't really have any answers for himself. He asked if I was going to counselling still and that it should help. I said, it's not giving me answers just helping me cope with not having them. He nodded.

He was quite soft spoken and almost sweet the whole time. But still so firm. I can honestly that I didn't see one sign of hope in it that he was giving me....at least not conciously. I'm sure I could analyze the crap out of his body language and even what he said and dig out something. But I'm not sure if that is noticing the small things or finding things that aren't there.

It was quite a conversation and of course there was a whole lot more to it...but I've dragged this on enough.
I don't think H could possibly be going home and not thinking about it.
I mentioned in my previous post that I have been feeling the need to reach out to him. I've been looking for signs all day to know if I should or not.
Then the time seemed right. Although it probably wasn't the best DB'ing...I don't think it was a backslide, at least not a far one. I also feel like I got some things off of my chest which will help me to continue to GAL and move on.

All I can hope is that he's still be firm on the outside, but inside he's in turmoil.
Am I kidding myself?? My heart doesn't say so, but what does it know.

Well that's my story! If this D is going to be busted...it's probably going to be one of those 11th hour ones!!

Any advice would be really helpful. I feel kind of lost.
J~

[phbear316]

Jenny

HUGS, HUGS, HUGS. I am with you crying right now. I don't know what to say.

I know you have been looking for SG, she has been on my stitch, i am going ask her to reach out to you.

Hugs
bear

[sgctxok]

Hi Jen!!!!

I'm glad Bear clicked 'notify moderator'. Please do so anytime you need me.

First of all....don't panic over 'lawyer speak'....just visit one if you haven't. And protect yourself. Visit several lawyers before you retain one.



Next...

It was quite a conversation and of course there was a whole lot more to it...but I've dragged this on enough.
I don't think H could possibly be going home and not thinking about it.
I mentioned in my previous post that I have been feeling the need to reach out to him. I've been looking for signs all day to know if I should or not.
Then the time seemed right. Although it probably wasn't the best DB'ing...I don't think it was a backslide, at least not a far one. I also feel like I got some things off of my chest which will help me to continue to GAL and move on.

All I can hope is that he's still be firm on the outside, but inside he's in turmoil.
Am I kidding myself?? My heart doesn't say so, but what does it know.




It WAS a bit of a backslide. You cannot trust your instincts right now for the reach out/connection thing with him. But---that's ok. We ALL 'backslide'. We just bring them down to a way minimum and lessen their intensity.


NO MORE of these conversations. You never even want to test the waters with these things.


NOW....the beautiful thing is....all is not lost. Many many people come back from this and from way worse situations.


How do you monitor results....you just did.

You tried something....this conversation....and you had a result...it was not what you wanted. EXCELLENT. You are absolutely clear....from your own data that this doesnt work. And it never will. Beautiful. It is only information.

So now...anything else as a better chance of working.

Set your solution oriented goals. Small. Attainable. Things you want more of. These are going to be......what would be the FIRST SIGN that things are going in the direction that you want them to. How would you know. What will he say and/or what will he do.

Are you up for a SOLUTION JOURNAL?



One more thing. He may or may not be having a MLC. While it is useful to read a little about that to understand the long haul....It is not useful...to categorize your H as MLC and think there is nothing you can do. It may help you to detach and GAL...and that's good. But so many then don't use DB to improve what pieces of the relationship they DO have.

What you are going to do is build this friendship without him knowing you're building it. AND you're going to attract him back without him thinking you are even interested in him.

[JennyF]

Thank you SG.
And thank you bear for bringing her to me!!

I do keep a solution journal...but I have to admit it hasn't been very solution based as of late. I need to go back and restart.

Ok...so it was a backslide. And it was the first conversation like this in 4 months. Given the nature of the letter he gave me...it seemed the right time to get some closure on things that I never got closure on.
Not to mention I was breastfeeding our 4 month old S during the coversations so hormones may have been a factor with the emotions.
I do think though that it gave him lots to think about. I hope he's thinking about it if nothing else. Seeds of doubt.

So if this didn't work...and nothing else I've tried is working. I guess I have some pretty serious 180's to do. I really need to give some thought to exactly what because I thought I was doing all the right things. Maybe I am and it's just going to take more time, I don't know.

I want to build this friendship with him. But I'm having a hard finding the balance between that and outright acceptance of the situation.
Thanks again SG. I appreciate it.
J~

[hope2wrkitout]

I was reading your post and it brought tears to my eyes. Your story is my story. I have had that very same conversation with H on more than one occasion and I get the same response and it hurts like hell. It is very difficult when all you want to do is understand and get answers. For me sometimes DB is very hard because it feels like our spouses get off of the hook. You will never be able to convince me that their behavior is normal, that it is acceptable, and that it needs no explanation. Reality is most spouses don’t do this. Most human beings don’t do this. Many on this board compare our spouses to substance abusers and really that is a great comparison. Right now they are sick. We can’t help them. Just like any other addict you have to let them go through the experience, hit rock bottom and hope they come out of it. Sometimes they do and sadly enough sometimes they don’t. I had a conversation very similar to the one you had. Although, my H has not taken any legal action, I know that he has researched it. His hesitation I believe probably has more to do with his own finances than anything. Anyway, one thing he said to me really stuck. He said “why are you fighting for me.” “If I have lied to you and cheated on you, why are you fighting for me? I got that he was really looking for answer. I felt like if I had just come up with the right answer he would come back. I did not have a meaningful answer to give him at the time and I am still working on one for myself. Anyway, that question really stopped me in my tracks. I thought I better stop pushing until I can figure out an answer for myself. I say all this to say JF is that you needed this one backslide. While the rest of us backslide all the time you remain strong. It was your turn. We all reach out for answers because we just can’t believe any rational person would not have a good reason for this. You now see that he does not have any answers. You have it out of your system, you know this does not work, so now is your chance to let go since you have nothing else up your sleeve. I had nothing else. I had nothing else to get mad about. I had no other arguments. I had tried unsuccessfully to get different results from H and finally I had to say I surrender. You win (the battle of course, but not the war). It has only been a week, but already I feel better. I have started to build a friendship with H. I am not sad or mean or evil when he comes over. It still hurts, but I have used all my big guns and got nothing. At this point all I can do is work with H on parenting our son successfully and happily. If you feel like you have nothing go with that. Your H is a new person. You really don’t know the man that stands before you. Build a friendship with him like anyone else you would that you just met- slowly. BTW I have gotten the same line about H not abandoning his kids. My H’s dad left his family. I will never understand their logic. Never!

[JennyF]

Feeling quite sad this morning.
I keep replaying the conversation in my head.
I still can't rid of this feeling that H is thinking things over...man am I stubborn.

But so many then don't use DB to improve what pieces of the relationship they DO have.

What you are going to do is build this friendship without him knowing you're building it. AND you're going to attract him back without him thinking you are even interested in him.

I'm going to think a lot about my new solutions journal and encorporate these things specifically.

hopetoworkitout,
Thanks for your post. You are right, that most spouses don't do this. What amazes me is that the ones who do...are almost identical to each other. That's why I get hung up in the patterns because I'm hoping it continues to play out.

Still have those financial statements looming...maybe I'll try to finish those up today.
J~

[Startingover2]

((((HUGS)))))Jenny

I am so sorry. I don't know what it is about seeing your marriage on paper like that. I think you handled it beautifully. You are human and that was quite a blow. I think H saw your side of things. You weren't begging him to come back, but you showed your hurt and disappointment. You weren't hanging on to his leg as he was trying to leave but he saw what your marriage means to you. He has to be thinking.

Way back at the beginning of our D, H and I spent an entire weekend together. It was great. Monday morning he left and that afternoon I got my papers in the mail that H had filed for D. Talk about a blow. Things can recover from this point and its just a piece of paper.

Hope you are feeling better today.