H and I mostly talked about his schedule, and it looks like he's going to be working nearly nonstop for the next two weeks. Doesn't give him much time for the boys. He said he'd like to maybe stop by and see them for an hour or two every now and then during the week. I agreed and said that would be fine, although I won't expect it to happen. H has often talked about visits during the week, but they have rarely taken place. Hope he proves me wrong though.
H seemed to be all over the place. At one time, he asked me, "What would you think about if we rented this place out and I bought us a bigger house?" I answered, "That's something we could definitely discuss. I think that would be really nice." (Discussed when and if the time is appropriate, naturally.)
Then at another time, he started going into the "what if's?" again. Sorry, but I'm getting very sick of the "what if's". What if this doesn't work? What if that doesn't happen? What if? What if? What if?????!!!!!!!!
I looked at H and said, "What if you moved in and everything was going to be just fine? What if you and I made the choice and the effort to make it work and we were both happy?" H said, "Yeah. That could happen, too."
I have plans coming up in a few weeks to go to a Ladies' Poker Night, and H was asking a few questions about it. Where was it going to be, who was going, how much was it to play. I told him we would be playing tournament style, and the buy-in would most likely be 10 or 20 bucks. H scoffed, "That's it? Why not make it 50? 50 would be worth it." I replied, "Sorry, I don't have $50 to play around with. I'm not allowed."
Well.... That quickly p*ssed him off. H said, "See, that's the kind of sh*t that's gonna keep me from coming back!" Loud enough for one of our older boys to look over at his dad. I whispered, "He didn't need to hear that." H said neither did he and mentioned how he hasn't been giving me a hard time about finances for a while now. Then he stormed out.
I put the boys to bed then called H's cellphone about 20 minutes after he left, but he didn't answer. Kind of thought he wouldn't. I left him a voicemail saying, "I would've rather talked to you, but I understand if you don't wish to talk to me right now. I wanted to say that I'm sorry if what I said was hurtful to you. It was not my intention. Whenever I spend money, whether it's on shoes for the kids, household necessities, a tube of lip gloss, or even to buy groceries, I can't help but feel guilty about it. Things have been done and said over the years to make me feel this way, and it is going to take me some time to realize that I shouldn't feel like that. Again, I am sorry if I hurt you. I didn't mean to. Bye."
Thought aloud, and that's what I got! Ugh.
Phone's ringing now.
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
So last night was a great example of what I meant when I said in an earlier post that it's just been too easy for H to leave whenever things get a little shaky between us. All he has to do is walk out. Too easy.
Well anyway, that was H calling last night. He called to let me know that he got my message, and he said he was sorry. H said, "I shouldn't have walked out like I did. I don't want to do that anymore, and I don't want to be so quick to fight with you."
I told H that I understood, and again, I wasn't trying to start anything with him. It was a thought in my head that slipped up, and I was sorry that it had.
H said he's aware of how he used to be and of the things he used to say regarding finances. H said while he still wants to be very sensible about money, he's not so uptight about it like he knew he was in the past. I always knew that and totally understood and respected his logic.
The finances are very different now from back when H was still living at home. During our S, H worked a couple of jobs, took many training courses (all of which he aced), and was easily hired by one of the oil refineries nearby. H now earns more than twice his salary of just 3 years ago. I'm really proud of him and have let him know a few times. He's come a long way.
H said, "You spend money." I repeated, "Yeah, I spend money." Then H said, "You spend it because it has to be spent. I understand that now. So if you have to buy the kids new shoes, or you want to get a $20 pedicure, you go ahead and do that, and don't feel guilty about it."
That helped and made me feel better, and I said thanks to H.
Then H said, "And I don't want a D. I don't want to get D'ed. I don't want it to happen." I didn't respond immediately, and then said ok.
H wished me a goodnight, and I did the same. Then we hung up.
My H says he doesn't want the D. He's never really said that before. It was always, "I want to try to work it out," or something like that.
My feelings at the moment - I'm nervous.
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
Nothing significant to report at the moment. However, I did go out and purchase Glass' "Not Just Friends". Have done a lot of highlighting today.
I think it might be helpful for me to permanently set down some notes here from the book:
* He says they're "just friends" again, and he shouldn't have to cut off all contact. - If the contact continues, the threat continues. It's like a recovering alcoholic who continues to go to happy hour after work every Friday, or an Internet infidel who continues to use the computer at home in the evenings.
* He hasn't made up his mind whether he's going to stay or leave. - You feel like a displaced person. Your home as you've known it has been destroyed, and you don't know where you will be or who you will be with from day to day.
* He says he's stopped, and I should trust him, but I can't. - You're paranoid if you don't trust him, but you violate your own gut feelings if you do.
* In each of the preceding situations, uncertainty about commitment to work on the M or uncertainty that the A is over keeps the betrayed partner off balance.
* ... additional incidents of deception are retraumatizing and set the recovery process back to zero.
* If the involved partner is ambivalent for too long or continues secret contact with the A partner, the continuing retraumatization and deception will make healing difficult, whether or not the M continues.
* Certainty comes through concrete demonstrations of openness and proof that any contact with the A partner has been cut off.
* Honesty now is the only way to undo the legacy of deception and lies.
* The involved partner cannot feel safe in an atmosphere of nasty accusations and emotional storms, anymore than the betrayed partner can feel safe in the absence of honest information. The involved partner believes that telling the truth will only make things worse. The betrayed partner must demonstrate that the distress caused by hearing upsetting information is a short-term reaction, but that the long-term effect is to heal the wounds.
* Stop all personal contact with the A partner, if possible.....Extricating yourself means telling your A partner that you are committed to rebuilding your M and that all intimate communication will stop. Until it is unambiguously clear that the A is over, your S cannot begin to heal and your M cannot recover.
I have more (a lot more) notes I want to put here, but right now I have to pick up my boys. They get out early today.
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
Wow! It sounds like you've had some great communication with your H re: his not wanting a divorce and the finance situation. It sounds like you are in a good place right now. Again I'm so happy for you! Karen43
Thank you, Karen! I agree, the communication between H and I seems to be getting much better and clearer. There's more caring and understanding happening. Still have a ways to go though.
More notes I want to put down:
* We were friends before, so why can't we be friends again? - Sometimes....the involved partner decides to stay in the M but also wants to stay friends with the A partner. What does that mean? Is the A over or is it just on hold? Are you trying out the M with the option of going back to your A partner? If the A is just put on hold, your S will remain suspicious. It is an unfortunate reality that someone who has crossed the line into a romantic sexual A can't go back to the previous state of platonic friendship.
* Apologies and promises alone are not enough to rebuild trust; reassurance comes only from observable change. If (x) has been lying for so long, just saying it's over could be another lie. How can (y) know if (x)'s telling the truth? Only time and devotion to (y) will convince (y). A truly remorseful S will come home earlier, be more attentive, make his/her partner feel more desirable, and be willing to put up a thick wall with the A partner. Only then will a betrayed S eventually be able to let go of his/her insecurity.
* (Good in case OW continues to call) Do not talk about your M with your A partner. - "I'm sorry, but it isn't appropriate for me to discuss that with you." Refusal to discuss your M tells your A partner where the boundaries are. You won't be tempted to portray the M in a negative light to protect the feelings of the A partner, who must understand that you now have a new commitment to the M. You enhance intimacy and rebuild the sense of "we-ness" in the M by confining personal information to your S.
* Volunteer before being asked. - Any contact you admit having with your A partner is a golden opportunity to gain trust points with your S.
* Be willing to prove you are trustworthy. - ....you might misperceive his/her need to know as an autonomy problem for you instead of a security issue for your S. It isn't that your partner has a neurotic need to control your every move. Rather, knowing what is really going on is the only way a traumatized person can begin to reestablish trust.
* Be accountable for your whereabouts. - It may feel as if you are curtailing your freedom, but what you are really doing is taking care of your partner's anxiety.
* It's not fair to create worry.
* Reverse walls and windows and establish safety. - Only when there is a sense of safety in the M can the damage be repaired.
* ...early decisions to stay or leave are not written in permanent ink. Even the person whose mind seems to be made up today can have a change of heart tomorrow....Nothing you say or hear this early in the game is set in stone.
* It's no wonder that people get tired and feel like giving up. When they are together, they remind each other of the pain. He looks into her eyes and sees his fallen image. She looks into his eyes and sees someone who lied to her. It feels unbearable to both of them.
* When a friendship slowly progresses after many months or even years into a full-fledged love A, the unfaithful partners will try to move backward across the timeline and maintain the friendship without the romantic attachment or sexual intimacy. Although this is an unrealistic goal, they are reluctant to put up walls in the A and can't help sliding the window open just a crack from time to time.
* Ambivalent partners will have great difficulty following the recommendation to cut off all contact with the A partner.
* ....walls and windows tell us how far the unfaithful partner has moved back into the M.
* Keep in mind that things are constantly fluctuating.
* If anything, involved partners tend to erect walls in both Rs in order to control the situation and keep it from blowing up before they have decided what they want to do.
* Both partners may demonstrate their ambivalence about working on the M by withdrawing, attacking, or failing to initiate caring actions or affectionate gestures. Refusal to appreciate or acknowledge positive actions by the other partner is another indication that commitment to working on the M is shaky.
Ambivalence in the Involved Partner
* (One sign) Lingering loyalty to the lover is shown by unwillingness to reveal details about the A. Emotional attachment to the lover is unmistakable when there is greater compassion for the distress of the A partner than for the injured S.
* Reasons. You could be afraid of making the wrong decision. It's frightening to think that what you decide now can set the course for the rest of your life. Or you may be paralyzed by the knowledge that one of the people you've attached to will be hurt and abandoned....To lose either individual is excruciating...
Making Comparisons
* ILYBINILWY
* Keep in mind that when you compare your A partner with your S, you are not really comparing two individuals. What you are comparing is how it feels to be in an idealized, romantic R with how it feels to be in a reality-based, long-term R.
* To look at it another way, the choice you are making could be between the part of you that wants excitement and the part of you that wants comfort and familiarity.
* ... struggling to choose between opposites....a SAHW who is warm and easygoing and a career-oriented GF who is ambitious and independent. Strangely enough, the traits you love in your A partner may be the exact opposite of the traits that originally attracted you to your S.
* Although the A partner might be "a nice place to visit", you might not want to "live there" permanently. Just remember that no R can meet all your needs. You can't have it all.
* The best solution, nonetheless, is to go cold turkey and stop the A, so that you and your betrayed partner can commit to discovering whether the M has a chance of surviving.
More again later. I'm liking that I'm getting these down here. If H does move back in, then I can put the book away (out of sight) and just come here to review when I need to.
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
Hi, lwb. When I found out about my H's A back in '05, I read "After The Affair" by Spring. It helped me to understand what was going on with me internally (emotionally, mentally), and with H as well. It was very informative, although I think I like Glass' book a bit more. She believes, as do I, in outing the A, and her steps to healing are very detailed and easily understood. She's upfront and reminds her readers that there is hope, yet there are no guarantees. Great book.
Quick update:
MIL called me yesterday morning to remind me that she was out of town. Good thing she did because I totally forgot! MIL watches the kids for me while I go to work on Wednesday evenings.
So I called H and asked if he would be available after work to stay with the kids. He said, "Yeah, I guess." Despite his obvious lack of enthusiasm, I told him thanks and said goodbye.
Decided to check if my parents would be free to watch the boys when they got home from work (maybe they wouldn't seem as bothered), and they were available. So I called H back which was about 15 minutes later and told him to never mind. I told him that my parents would be able to help out. With a bit more oomph in his speech this time, H asked, "Are you sure? It's not like I have anything to do later on." I said, "Yes, I'm sure. I realize you're working right now and will probably be coming off a long, hard shift, so don't worry about it. Have a good day. Bye." H said, "Ok, thanks. Bye."
Let it go.
Fast forward to last night.
The boys and I got home just after 9:15 or so. Got them settled into bed, fixed myself something to eat, and read for a little bit until the phone rang at about 10:30pm.
It was H, and he wanted to know why I hadn't called him back.... ??? .... Asked what did he mean, and he said he left a message. When I got home, there were two messages on the answering machine, but my mom told me she called the house twice (before I got to her house to drop the boys off), so I just assumed the messages were from her and erased them both without listening. Explained that to H.
He sounded a little down in the dumps and said he wished I would've called him sooner. I said sorry, I didn't know. He said he wanted to ask if it was ok if he could spend the night. He was having trouble getting to sleep and didn't want to be alone. I said if he wanted to, that was alright with me, but then he said, "No, I'm already in bed now. I wasn't earlier." I said ok, but if he changed his mind to just come. We said goodnight then hung up.
Now, I'm wondering if I should bring up the topic of moving back in. H moving back in if he didn't want the D was/is one of my conditions. He's said he doesn't want the D, but nothing has been done or said about moving in.
I haven't called my ATTY yet. I haven't done anything to stop the D which is coming fast. I don't want to stop it if H doesn't move back in, and I would like to see the initial step forward come from H himself. If I do stop the D beforehand, I don't see him respecting my wish. I think he will continue to remain at his place for as long as he can or wants to.
Don't know what to do.
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
Need to get my mind off my current dilemma (whether or not to say anything to H about moving back in). I certainly do not want him to feel "pressure" in any way, yet I feel conflicted with this because I also don't want to just let it go. I "set a rule", and I feel as though I have to follow through with it. Ugh. This weather doesn't help much either. Very gloomy and rainy today.
More notes:
Ambivalence in the Betrayed Partner
* Oftentimes, the ambivalence of unfaithful partners is so hurtful and confusing that injured partners react with their own ambivalence, vacillating between a desperate wish to stay and save the M and the wish to leave and save themselves from further harm.
* It's important to stay centered while your partner is bouncing off the walls.
* Take hope if the pendulum seems to be swinging closer and closer to you.
* Don't push your partner away or try to pull your partner in.
* Sink your feet firmly in the ground and declare your commitment to work on the M alongside your partner, as long as your partner is willing to meet you halfway.
* .... look for behavioral signs of progress, such as increasing honesty and consideration.
Damage Control for Both Partners
* As a betrayed partner, you should make it clear what you will and will not tolerate.
* Don't go berserk when these expectations are violated. Instead, talk about how you feel and give a realistic deadline of a few months' time for making a firm commitment.
* (Unfaithful partner) Further deception during this time of ambivalence may drive away your partner forever.
* A remarkable thing happens when you are honest with each other, even if it is about your ambivalence. You feel closer because taking down walls and opening windows results in greater intimacy.
* As long as you are ambivalent, there is still hope, because you haven't yet made a definite decision.
* Early decision making revolves around whether to stick with efforts to work through the situation, whereas later decision making involves whether to leave the M once and for all. The first decision you need to make is whether you can commit to working on the M.
* It is important that you make an active rather than passive decision to stay and work on the M.
* The worst resolution is a stable triangle. When involved partners stay on an eternal fence, ultimatums given by the S or lover move them from one side to the other. They cajole, seduce, and deceive both partners in order to have their cake and eat it too. The S and the lover help to maintain the stable triangle by making compromises and accepting whatever crumbs are thrown their way.
* (Unfaithful partner) Guilt or duty: Would you be staying out of a sense of guilt or duty?....Your obligation should be to enhance your marital R so that good comes out of suffering.
* For the children:....Don't dedicate yourself to a life of misery. If you're staying only because of the children, then start connecting with your S through family activities but don't let that be the end point. Ultimately, your children will benefit from parents who show them how to be a loving couple.
* A new perspective:....compassion and sensitivity that may have been taken for granted before can now be seen as a strong reason not to leave.
* Repair work:...Fix it up first and you'll have a better idea of how the finished product suits you.
* Strength or weakness: Don't stay because you are too weak to end it and too afraid to be on your own....Stay because you are independent enough to take care of yourself while your partner isn't able to be there for you....Leave because you've done everything possible for many months and there's absolutely no sign of progress.
* Reality check:...Rs that began through betrayal and broken trust often end up having their own problems with trust.
* A constructive separation can create a period of stability and calm for thinking through the complex issues involved. It can strengthen individual boundaries, enhance self-respect, provide psychological as well as physical distance, and help people discover their degree of voluntary commitment to the M.
* The problem with separating at this point is that trust issues tend to increase when the couple is apart and strain the M even further.
* The involved partner who can't promise to be faithful must promise to be honest....The injured partner will be even more bitter and angry when he/she learns of additional deception.
* A M that has endured an A is like a cracked vase: When the crack is repaired, the superglue makes it stronger than before, but you will always be able to see evidence of the crack.
* The heart of ambivalence for the betrayed partner is Can I ever trust you again? For both partners, it is Will we ever have what we had before?....a crucial goal in recovery is to restore trust...[however] the second question is the wrong question.....[goal is] to be stronger, individually and together, without the vulnerabilities that created the conditions for the A in the first place.
* A crisis of uncertainty often provides fertile ground for new growth and development.
* Look for progress from week to week instead of from moment to moment...Let things play out.
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
H called about 20 minutes ago to say hi to the kids. He and I talked for just a few minutes before saying goodbye.
MIL called earlier this evening to ask if the boys could spend tomorrow night with her. Of course I said yes - I always look forward to quiet evenings with me, myself, and I!
Anyway, shortly after hanging up with H, it donned on me that I'll be available tomorrow night, and H should be, too. So I called him up, explained that the boys would be with MIL tomorrow night, and asked if he wanted to go see a movie or something. H said, "I would, and I'd like to, but I already have plans." I said oh, ok. H quickly said, "Would you like to know what they are?" I said if he wanted to tell me, that was fine. He then proceeded to tell me that a few of the guys from work are going to a Warriors' game, and they invited him along. I said that was nice and sounded fun. Wished him a great time. H said, "Yeah, we'll see." ... ??? ... Ok, whatever. H said maybe we could do something else some other time. I said sure, sounds good.
Have to admit that I am a little disappointed, but I do hope he has a fun time tomorrow.
H and I haven't really spent any time together since Super Bowl - that was the first weekend of February - and he hasn't even asked me to do anything since then. That's why I asked him. Figured it couldn't hurt, and it's when we go longer without quality time together that we drift further apart.
I read FLL by Chapman and learned that my LLs are quality time and physical touch. H's are words of affirmation and acts of service.
Neither can deliver if we aren't together.
Ugh. Just frustrated today.
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
Alright. Kiddos are in bed so now I can write more.
I'm frustrated, confused, tired, cranky, lonely, sad, numb, feel this is hopeless, unsure about everything, just don't know what to do.
Three months ago, I knew exactly where this was all going. Knew where I was going. Knew it was just finally going to be all over. The hurt was going to be gone. The unknowing was going to be gone. The deceit would probably still be there, but at this point, after the D, who would care? Not me. My life was moving along, and I was finally going forward.
At times I feel like I should be rejoicing because the seemingly impossible had happened. My H, at last, came around and said he still loved me and didn't want to get D'ed. He began including me back into his life, taking me along on outings with the kids and once just the two of us. Calls me a little more often these days.
Positive things are happening. There is caring. There is better communication.
I should feel really good about this. But I don't.
All of a sudden, he barely touches me anymore. Couldn't keep his hands off me the first time we ML since being S'ed for over 2 years, but now, even when I try to go for a little hug which is not often at all, I get nothing. Just a dead weight slightly leaning into me. No arms around me, nothing. Oh wait - I did get a little pat on the back at MIL's one day when he tried to hug me in front of her. Rather he just didn't.
And every time my H has talked about or said anything that had to do with us spending time together, he always sounds like he is about to cry, and sometimes does. Why? WHY??????
How can I act as if, how can I be happy, hopeful when all he continues to show me is ambivalence, fear, sadness?
How can I act as if and feel good about this?
I want to be happy about this. I deserve to be happy, and I can't feel positive about anything when H seems so sad and undetermined with this M.
This day sucks so bad. I want this all to be over. I want my optimism and life back. I want the pessimism gone, and that is soooo HARD to get rid of when there's absolutely no help.
Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward. ~ Joseph Campbell
Sorry, but I'm getting very sick of the "what if's". What if this doesn't work? What if that doesn't happen? What if? What if? What if?????!!!!!!!!
That quickly p*ssed him off. H said, "See, that's the kind of sh*t that's gonna keep me from coming back!" Loud enough for one of our older boys to look over at his dad. I whispered, "He didn't need to hear that." H said neither did he and mentioned how he hasn't been giving me a hard time about finances for a while now. Then he stormed out.
Thought aloud, and that's what I got! Ugh.
