Serial EA/PA WAW/MLC

[BradNL]

But to cut a long post short Room-mates for the sake of children does work. It will be painful initially, but it will get better. Only if you can truly detach emotionally from what is happening to her. And do not snoop or take any interest in what your W is doing, as that will always hurt you the most.

It will buy you enough time to consolidate your life, and will put you in a position to either reconcile with your W (given time) or finally move on without W. I think it will be win-win on your part and the kid(s).

Also, my XW and I agreed not to bring any of our partners (mainly her OM) or future partners into our "family" home, out of respect for each other.

Yeah, all of us learn the hard way about snooping... Whenever I feel the urge to snoop I just remind myself that knowing won't make me feel better, so I don't.

I've been in this sitch for 7 months now, the last month or two I have gained some peace with it. My doctor, therapist and friends all keep telling me that they can't understand how I can be so calm with everything that W is doing... I just know that I have to accept that I can't change her mind, only can change myself and I am happy with the my changes so far and hopefully will keep going along this path.

Already laid down that boundary, any outside people are not allowed around our kids/home while we are still living together. There are lots of things that I have learned to accept, but that will not be one of them.

Thanks for stopping by, hope your W turns around and sees that there is more strength in coming back than listening to her ego.

Brad

[fightingirish]

Brad,

Im glad your at this point, because you need to protect your heart from getting hurt any longer.

Set your boundaries, you have absoultely every right to when it comes to your kids. They don't need to be exposed to any of this.

Take care

[runningoutoftime]

My doctor, therapist and friends all keep telling me that they can't understand how I can be so calm with everything that W is doing... I just know that I have to accept that I can't change her mind, only can change myself and I am happy with the my changes so far and hopefully will keep going along this path.

BradNL,

I'm very glad to hear you have the wisdom to realize that. As if not being calm would help??? If anything it would only make you look jealious and controlling, and help her validate her decision. If you take the "high road" and be a great guy in spite of everything.... you come out the winner. Even if she leaves! She will have left something valuable.

Gosh, I'm so proud of you Andy hanging in there and being roommates with your wife so you can have full access to the kids and keep them safe. High-fives to you guy!!! You get my my dad-of-the-year vote and fall in my "massively attractive guy" category!!!

[BradNL]

runningoutoftime,

Don't know about being a great guy, but I'm trying to not be the guy who was detached from his wife and kids so much that it got away from him. That guy is the one who has changed into someone who connects with his kids and takes care of the household. He even tries to show a lot more friendship and interest in W's life, despite the fact that W is leaving.

Its very strange to think logically about how I can detach from the drama but stay attached as a friend, never thought I could manage. Of course there are times when I fail, get sucked in to the drama, but I haven't let it last long enough to cause the panic attacks etc that it used to.

And yes, I think I will come out a "winner", I get to actually be part of my children's lives rather than just an observer. There will be a lot of trauma for them and myself over the coming months (and years?) so its good to know that they can rely on their dad.

Brad

[BradNL]

Hmm, have a therapy session this afternoon, not really sure I want to continue with them anymore. I could change to another therapist but I just don't feel I'm achieving anything that I am not already doing by talking to my friends. Might just be a side effect of bad week of sleep, W has been out/up late most of the week and when she comes to bed it upsets my rest.

Did have a good evening last night, company had a games night, had a Wii on the projector and some other board games available. There was also free food (a nice chicken curry, cheese fondue and some snacks) and beer! After we had all eaten there was a chocolate fondue fountain which was wonderful... I don't even want to see chocolate today!

A decent group of people turned up, was planned from 6pm to 8pm but I only left around 9:15pm *8O Got home to find that W and kids were fast asleep, decided to stay up until 11pm and watch some tv programs. Crawled into bed, wished W a good night and went to sleep.

Tomorrow I should have a quiet time, W is going to a friend for her kids party, good thing I have 3 Six Nations Rugby matches to watch, relax! There are vague plans to go to the gym on sunday (for my weekly swim with the kids) or to visit a museum etc...

Next saturday W is planning to go visit a friend for the day, staying over night. Thinks its a good thing to spend some time apart. Her past record of using friends as excuses for her meetings with OM's for PA makes me uncomfortable, but as its nowhere near me and the kids...

Something that has been bothering me is that W seemed very stressed when talking about D last sunday. The whole time we were talking her one eye was twitching, something that happens when W is super stressed. I wish W would understand that she can talk to me, but I guess I wouldn't be here if that was the case...

Three word summary for this week? Tired but calm.

[runningoutoftime]

Yes, I know being friends with someone who wants to divorce you is difficult. I think what helped me was to try and pull my ego out of the situation and be thankful for the good things. In spite of difficult times, there were good years. I have two great kids! Overall, even though it wasn't a perfect marriage, I felt it was good. I appreciated my H for that... in spite of him wanting to leave me.

Also, if this is a person I really love and care about felt they weren't happy with me, why would I even want them to stay? I wanted my husband to be happy. I eventually came to accept that he needed to go out and find it. Somehow, this gave me peace with the situation. It helped me let go and detach. (Although I always believed real happiness would be with me and the kids... anything else would be mirage).

[BradNL]

runningoutoftime,

I agree, our marriages tend to be flawed, but there are good times and the great kids that came from it *8) Mastering the detachment protects us from the WAS's proclamations of how it was always bad, that there were no good times...

Sure, I wish W could find a way to be happy, without having to tear things down around her on the way out. Why do they feel the need to lash out and hurt us when all they want to do is leave?

[BradNL]

Ok, few things that happened since friday...

Just before I went to my therapy session W comes up with the idea that she has to have custody of the kids! Here in NL the default is 50/50 in divorce on everything, property, parenting etc. Her reason why she suddenly wants to void the co-parenting that we have discussed over and over? Because without custody she can't get priority listing for social housing!

Now I might be doing a bit of the same, but since when does W get to use the kids to improve her chances of cheap housing AND take custody of the kids meaning I am left with next to no access to them? W is the one who doesn't want the kids to have a dramatic change in living circumstances but wants to bundle them into social housing instead of letting them live with me in the same home they've had for years? Do I sound angry? I am angry, I don't want to lose my kids and definitely not just because W wants a cheap place to live.

Talked to my therapist about that and other things, she agrees that W is definitely not rational if she believes I will agree to that.

And on to the w/e, not much for Saturday, W was gone most of the day at gym or with the kids to a party, I watched rugby, relaxed, had a generally good day at home alone.

Sunday was interesting though... both W & I were a bit tired, so had a lazy day. W showered after I had already showered and dressed, she was naked in the bathroom and I complimented her on how she looks. W asked why I was making comments after our talk the previous w/e about seperating(? I though we were getting divorced, I think it was semantics, not a change of her mind)... I just replied that it doesn't matter that we are, I can still appreciate how good she looks (or something similar), didn't get a reply from that.


Only got out of the house in the afternoon to take the kids for a bike ride and a visit to the nearby children's farm (with a large playground). At first W didn't want me to go off with the kids, so I went and sat with her on a bench... so she gets up and goes to talk to various mothers from the kids school... So I landed up playing with the kids again, they had a great time and got quite worn out.

After we got back I watched a movie with the kids, near the end I started getting things ready to cook supper, W walks out of the study and makes a snarky comment about how she wishes I would stop being so "heroic" about making supper. Eh? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be making supper if W wanted to help but hasn't had any interest for months now... weird.

Later W was looking for a new job and got all snarky about that too. Walked in to the lounge and told the kids how it looks like she has to look for a full time job again, um, yes? How does W think this new life of independence is going to be paid for if she doesn't have a decent paying job? My salary just manages to keep us ticking over now, with child support & daycare there is pretty much nothing left for alimoney...

Paperwork for our permanent residence permits is done now, yesterday was our official 5 year residence anniversary here. W has to wait for that to clear, then can apply for Dutch citizenship & passport. Wonder if she will wait until after the D so she can have it in her maiden name again...

Oh, also on sunday evening, I was playing a game on my computer while W was in the study doing her thing. I wear my noise-cancelling headphones when I play, means I can play in peace without making a noise. W walked in after some time, mumbled something (which I couldn't hear, game was in full swing and noisy at the time) and then left. Got told off at bed time that I had ignored her when she had wanted to come sit in the lounge and watch tv... Can someone explain why W wants to come sit with me when all she does is sit on the laptop and IM the same as she does in the study?

[runningoutoftime]

Sure, I wish W could find a way to be happy, without having to tear things down around her on the way out. Why do they feel the need to lash out and hurt us when all they want to do is leave?

That's totally normal. They do it to make leaving easier. If they can make you angry it's easier to divorce because "the marriage was rotten anyway and we fought all the time." Just ignore it. When she acts snarky and blames you just say, "Yes, I understand what you are saying," or even, "I'm sorry it came across that way..."

Do not let her get you angry or coner you into any fights.

Yes, of course she wants full custody! You have to expect her to want whatever will make her situation easier regardless of where it leaves you. Mentally she's in a very selfish place right now (that's very normal too when someone wants a D). Just smile, stay calm and say, "I'll have to speak with my lawyer..." and then let it go. Ignore her as much as possible. You don't have to fight over things or agree over anything right now. Tell her you'll "think about" whatever she brings up or will need to discuss it with your lawyer.

[BradNL]

PMA breaking day for me. Been feeling ill the past two days (which has completely wiped out my sleep) and today W hits me with the news that she has organised a mediator for March 10.

W then followed up with a long talk about custody and splitting of assets (car, apartment, money etc). W wants full custody, but with an alternating 3 day/4 day swap... the reason? Here in NL you aren't eligible for social housing urgency if you don't have full custody. And no social housing == rent that is around the same as our current mortgage payments. W kept on changing her story though, about how she wants to stay in the apartment with the kids and I should go share a place with a co-worker! Constant angry outbursts about how I am impossible to talk to etc whenever I didn't just agree with her.

Didn't like my suggestion that the kids stay with me week nights (I am at home pretty much every week night, she is not and won't be able to once she is working full or near full time) since it wasn't 50/50... One of her angry outbursts she did the "I should just take the kids and go back to Zimbabwe", yep, that will make me so much more happy with the idea of you having custody, that you will just run away. Constant stream of manipulative things like that throughout, even when I said that we were not talking constructively and should talk later W launched into another tirade about how she can't talk to me because I'm impossible and not logical.

I know the WAS lacks the whole reality thing, but we talked about how the car would go to her (I don't drive, its an anxiety thing) and the capital value of house would be split etc but as soon as I mentioned the custody and shared debt issues she went into attack mode. Its logical that I keep the apartment, I can afford to pay for it. I thought it was logical that the kids stay week nights with me, since W will need evenings for gym and her busy social life... Only issue there is getting them to school since I don't drive, but the school is close enough for other solutions to be worked out. It is not logical that I move out of the area, will make having the kids impossible during the week, can't get them to school without a car.

W launched into various rants about how the mediator would be making a lot of money because of my not wanting to talk (I have drawn up a basic budget already to work out how much is available for child support etc) ahead of the meeting. Also threw out the official figures that can be used for child support and alimoney, 1000 and 800 a month! No idea how the NL govt come up with those figures since I don't know anyone who could pay that and still afford to live at all. I have a theoretical 800 of disposable income, realistically 500, W's job is going to have to have to pay decently or there will be big problems. Social housing does make it easier, only around 600 a month for a row house vs the 1400 or so on our apartment in the private market (yeah, living close to Amsterdam is expensive).

I guess the true nature of the WAS comes out when they see that the future will be hard, that and her close friends who are coaching her on how to go for the throat... So not in the right mental place to be dealing with this now, even though I did a lot of the preparation ahead. Logic and reason mean nothing in this situation, cry havok and let slip the dogs of war?

Too tired.