Just_Me, I read up a bit on your threads and looks like you went thru' the same phase I'm in now and have some regrets on how you handled it: what would you do differently if you had to go thru' it again given what you know now
I never had to deal with an angry spouse. She wasn't that way. We had a pretty good relationship as friends. There were times it was the best relationship we ever had, but just wasn't enough for me because I wanted it all. So dealing with a wife spewing forth anger isn't really my experience. I actually wonder about what anger may mean. To me, it may suggest the same thing as nagging; that she wants something to be different. She brings up all the faults you have, but is that so you'll fix them? Is it so you'll validate her feelings. Maybe she still wants to be heard and it may diffuse some of this anger.
What would I do differently: 1-not be so impatient 2-realize that if anything is going to happen it's going to be on her time schedule, not mine. 3-not dated. Not got involved with anyone. 4-Not went dark 5-Not given her the impression, from getting so busy moving on, that I didn't care.
What I would have still done: 1-continued to be her friend 2-listen, listen, listen 3-be supportive 4-be upbeat 5-be secure 6-made changes in myself---the problem is, that back together I slip up and don't hold up my end all the time. I'm more cognizant of what I could do better, but there are still old patterns that come back. 7-read "when anger hurts". I've had to glance through it again at times.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
From the experience of being here quite a while, I'd say the odds are pretty long ... Best guess all told for success? 10% But when I look at the people who I once posted to, more than half, maybe even 2/3 of those people posted for a couple months, even up to six months, then disappeared. I'd have to assume that those people ended up divorced.
I haven't been around anywhere as long as you but what you are saying fits what I've seen so far. It looks like the success rate for DBing is no better than the for couples in general who reconcile after D is filed; my guess is only a small fraction of these couples even know about DBing tho' they may go to counseling, Retrovaille, etc.
Given that almost *everyone* on this board starts off *really* wanting to save their M and many are busy DBing their a$$ off, I think it would be fair for such statistics to be published. Otherwise the success stories posted could be very misleading and invariably lead to unrealistic expectations and prolonged agony or false hope.
And I think it is indeed possible to come up with the actual numbers. My guess is it will be very disappointing to Michelle tho' I'd be pleasantly surprised if the number was any better than your guess.
I bet if the *real* statistics were published for other programs they would not be much different than for DBing tho' R-vaille claims 80% success which I very much doubt is realistic. There is the "smartmarriages" organization - these folks are passionate about marriage and I bet if anyone can come up with the real numbers it would be them.
Me-48, W-38 M14, D11, S7 W filed D 01/07 W had to move out 06/07 Current Thread
I doubt the retrouvaille numbers also, although I think it may have a higher success rate simply because of the situation. Most of the spouses on here couldn't be dragged forceably to a MC, much less a marital retreat. I think those aren't marriages that are as far gone.
My honest opinion is that this late in the game, the process is about saving yourself first, and possibly your marriage. People emerge from divorce all the time and launch back into a new relationship that is doomed to fail because nothing is different. This process will hopefully give you the tools you need to either start a fresh marriage with your spouse, be a better person, or be a better spouse to the next Mrs fb2. There are success stories that don't result in reconciliation. They became successful people. Sometimes the spouse that left isn't really "all that and a bag of chips".
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
I actually wonder about what anger may mean. To me, it may suggest the same thing as nagging; that she wants something to be different. She brings up all the faults you have, but is that so you'll fix them? Is it so you'll validate her feelings. Maybe she still wants to be heard and it may diffuse some of this anger.
Yes that was the cause of a lot of arguing and anger during the M; she would attack and I would defend and sometimes attack back; other times withdraw. Either response fuels more anger. I too did my share of nagging. After she filed I think the anger was more to hide the guilt but that seems to have subsided. While the book you recommend has useful techniques a good explanation of the anger dynamics in marriage and how to manage them are contained in a single chapter of the book "Emotional Intelligence" by Daniel Goleman.
All the points you list I constantly need to keep in mind myself and I guess most of us do. Her hostility and my understanding of DBing made me go dark for a few months but I've been trying to use my discretion the last 3 months and walking a very fine line between caring and pursuing; I'm not sure I've made a lot of progress other than not making things any worse.
Me-48, W-38 M14, D11, S7 W filed D 01/07 W had to move out 06/07 Current Thread
I doubt the retrouvaille numbers also, although I think it may have a higher success rate simply because of the situation. Most of the spouses on here couldn't be dragged forceably to a MC, much less a marital retreat. I think those aren't marriages that are as far gone.
Absolutely - An 80% success rate when both people are actively trying to resolve the problems in the marriage isn't even worth quoting in the context of DB'ing.
I'm sure we'd all a similar success if our spouses wanted to try.
I doubt the retrouvaille numbers also, although I think it may have a higher success rate simply because of the situation. Most of the spouses on here couldn't be dragged forceably to a MC, much less a marital retreat. I think those aren't marriages that are as far gone.
Absolutely - An 80% success rate when both people are actively trying to resolve the problems in the marriage isn't even worth quoting in the context of DB'ing.
I'm sure we'd all a similar success if our spouses wanted to try.
This makes sense to me. Tho' I also wonder how they really measure success. Perhaps 80% of those that attend get a warm fuzzy feeling for a few days/weeks after that and then the "dialogging" dies out; who really knows. What they told me is that "it doesn't work for everyone" or some excuse like that.
Me-48, W-38 M14, D11, S7 W filed D 01/07 W had to move out 06/07 Current Thread
W called to say she passed her exam - hardest exam she's done, etc., etc. - lots of drama. So I validated, congratulated, etc. After a few minutes I said I'd call her back in just a few minutes 'cos we were in the middle of dinner (I have the kids this week) - she got quite mad and hung up (hmm??). I did call her back as promised - she talked for a while - I just listened and stayed on track. She then asked to talk to the kids a bit and that's it. I will most likely meet her again at the doctor's office regarding S7.
Me-48, W-38 M14, D11, S7 W filed D 01/07 W had to move out 06/07 Current Thread
Met W at the doctors office where S7 had to be tested for possible learning disability. She talked about her work, read some random magazines and even came over to where I was sitting and pointed to and talked about something or other in the magazines. No hostility.
I'm still thinking about the serious talk I want to have with her.
Me-48, W-38 M14, D11, S7 W filed D 01/07 W had to move out 06/07 Current Thread
Were I you (and yes, I've been through this part), I'd probably just keep it simple without promises that things would be better if you tried again. Don't cry. Don't fuss. Don't beg.
Originally Posted By: Kalni
And I would add, not to say anything that you will be regretting later on. By that I mean, don't cross your personal boundaries, you moral principles, yourself.
Originally Posted By: KerryK
Are you really at peace with finalizing the D if you get a good settlement? Just be honest in your next talk (maybe not final) with your W on how you feel.
Still don't know what exactly to do or say. Still feel like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't (???)
Me-48, W-38 M14, D11, S7 W filed D 01/07 W had to move out 06/07 Current Thread
Make sure the timing is right when you are going to have the big talk. You might want to first sit down and write a letter (you dont have to give it to her) of things you want to get off your chest. Just remember that there are no magic words you can say at one time which will change her mind. The other thing to really focus on in your talk is to listen and try an understand her. I wish you luck.
