Overwhelmed with uncertainty

[GoingForward]

Despite the blow I took last night, I want to take this opportunity to appreciate all of the love and support I have been blessed with. My family, my in-laws, friends, and most importantly, my truly fantastic boys. Their love is always so innocent, so true, so pure. Love my babies!

Sometimes it's too easy to forget what really matters in life. Loving, supportive relatives. Friends that are always there - day and night. Our children's unconditional, unyielding love.

Happy Valentine's Day, everyone! Though it may not always feel like it, we ARE loved by someone everyday.

[GoingForward]

Wednesday night's R talk started with H saying (over the phone) that he wanted to talk to me about things, but he wanted to do it in person. Suppose I should've been ok with that, but I said if he had something he wanted to discuss he could just tell me now. What was the difference between telling me now or later? He hesitated a bit but agreed.

He began to tell me that all he can do is think about our sitch nonstop, and that he's still confused and afraid to make the wrong decision. He said he is also feeling a lot of pressure because of the rapidly approaching "deadline" I gave him, and he still has a lot of doubts.

I just had this feeling, and I had to ask, "Have you talked to her (OW)?" H said yes, and sounded like he was about to cry, except he didn't. I did. Wasn't sobbing, but the tears were flowing and my voice was shaking. I asked him why when he had told me that he wasn't going to talk to her anymore. He said he had no intentions nor desires to do so.

H said he didn't know why, and he said he was sorry.

I said he lied to me. H said he never promised me anything. I reminded him that when he came to me with the reconciliation talk, that ALL contact HAD to stop with her, or there wasn't going to be any chance. H agreed to it. THAT was a promise, and I said this to him. He said he was sorry again and felt the need to mention that he never told me that I had to stop seeing or talking to my friend (the guy I was dating). He said he wouldn't have cared if I was still seeing/talking to the other guy because our sitch was still uncertain.

I said, "When you came to me and said you wanted to work it out, I ended it without question. I KNEW that I had to stop seeing and talking to this guy, because if I didn't, then I couldn't give 100% of myself to you and to this M. There is NO WAY a R can survive if there are more than two people involved in it. It WILL NOT WORK that way!"

I asked H why again. If he truly meant what he said about not wanting to talk to OW again, then why did he do it? He said he didn't even know it was her, that his phone rang and he just picked it up and answered.

BS!!! He's got caller ID just like everyone else, and he ALWAYS checks to see who's calling him. ALWAYS! I swear, he thinks I'm a gullible idiot!

Anyway, he said she called him to see how he was doing. H said he seldom gets calls where anyone is calling just to ask him how he's doing.

BS again! His mom (and his sister, too) calls him all the time because she's always concerned about him and wants to know how he is, but he never wants to talk with her and just doesn't call her back sometimes. I, myself, have called him before just to say hi and to ask about his day (all mostly during times when H wanted to reconcile), but after always getting, "I gotta go...The control room's calling me" or "(Friend)'s calling me, I gotta go" or "I can't talk right now, I gotta go", I gotta go, I gotta go......I stopped. (I wasn't calling him a lot either, where it didn't concern the kids...probably once a week.)

Back to his call with OW, he mentioned that she told him she was moving on, and that was it. That was all they talked about.

Umm....what? So....I'm supposed to believe this - "Hi, (H). How are you?.....Cool.....I'm good. Well I just called to see how you were doing and to let you know that I've gone on some dates, and I'm moving on. Ok, bye." Whatever.

H said he was sorry that his talking with her, who he also says was/is a friend, hurt me. I said, "It's not so much about you talking to her. It's that you lied to me. You lied to me again, and that is what hurts. It hurts everytime it happens. I was very unsure about trying with you again and didn't know if I could trust and believe you. But I told myself that if I really wanted this M, then I had to give you the benefit of the doubt, and that was exactly what I did. I also told you that I was probably going to need some reassurance from you from time to time. After all that, I pushed my fears and doubts aside, and look at what I get. I'm hurt again." H was quiet.

I said, "If I was about to do something....let's say, like I thought about talking to the guy I was dating again or someone new, while trying to work things out with you. Before I made that decision, I would stop and think, 'If H knew about this, would it hurt him?', and if the answer was yes, I WOULDN'T DO IT."

H said, "Sorry I'm not as perfect as you."

I said, "I am not perfect, H. It is just common sense, and it is caring for someone else's feelings other than your own for once!"

He said nothing. We both didn't say anything for a while, then he said, "So do you not want to talk to me now? Do you hate me now?" He sounded like he wanted to cry again.

I told him I do not hate him; I hate the situation. H said he did, too.

After another long silence, H if I wanted to talk. I asked about what. What more was there to discuss? He said we could talk about if there's still a chance, if it was still possible for us to work things out. I said there is nothing that I can say or do anymore. H was confused and afraid the day he left, and 3 years later, he still is undecided. I cannot make his decisions for him.

He said he would have his phone on and right beside him if I wanted to talk anymore with him. I said it most likely wouldn't happen since it was late and I had to get some sleep. Then we said goodnight and hung up.

I don't think I fell asleep until nearly 1am. Just tossed and turned (and cried) in bed for over an hour.

Anyway, H has called twice today. Once this early morning and again while I was picking up S12 from school. Will write about this in my next post.

[GoingForward]

Forgot to mention, during last night's call, H said, "At least I told you I talked to her. Would you have preferred that I lied about it?"..... ..... I said it was going to be bad either way. H admitted, "Yeah."

Ok so, H called this morning, and I have to admit that at that point, the hurt I felt the night before had turned a little into anger and frustration. Or maybe I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

After answering and saying hello, H said hi, then I asked him if he wanted to talk to the kids. Many times H will call in the mornings to wish the kids a good day.

He said no, he wanted to know if he could talk with me. I asked about? H said he didn't know, everything he guessed. I said I really was in no mood to talk at the moment. I really didn't have anything to say either.

H gave another apology for having talked with OW. He's just really confused, doesn't know what to do.......yada yada yada. Said I have "all these rules" and a "deadline" and he can't decide.

I stopped him there and said I didn't have time for this right then. I had to get the boys ready for school. He asked if he could call me later. I said if he wanted to, that would be fine.

Fast forward to this afternoon.

H called again as I was leaving the house to pick up S12 from school. He asked if we could talk now. With my other two sons in the car, I said it probably wasn't the best time. H said he would like to talk to me about his schedule then, so we discussed that, when he would and wouldn't be able to have the kids.

Reached the school, let the boys out to play in the field, then H turned the conversation into an R talk. The boys were far enough away so I was ok.

He again started out with how very sorry he is about having talked with OW, and again went into my deadline and rules I put out for him.

I said, "Look. I am really sorry that you feel I'm giving you rules to follow, ultimatums, or a deadline to make. I do not feel that's what they are, and I am not trying to control you in any way. I have limits, H. Everyone's got them. 3 years is TOO LONG to live like this. You were unsure and confused when you moved out, and you still are, 3 years later. That is TOO LONG, and I will not go through this anymore."

He said he understood.

Then I said,"As far as rules, ok. I have rules, and my number one rule is this - if you want to be in a serious, COMMITTED R with me, if you want this M, then there CANNOT be anyone else. Period. Even someone you dated who was also a 'friend', and still is. I am NOT ok with that, H. It's a dealbreaker for me. I need to feel secure. Don't both people in a R have to feel secure with one another? Wouldn't you agree with that?"

H said yes, he agreed and understood.

I told him I do not feel secure with him. H said, "I'm sorry. I f'ed up. I talked to her, and I shouldn't have. What do you want me to do? Do you want me to change my number?"

I know that wouldn't happen. He's playing some game. Can't quite explain it, but I know what he's doing. Whenever H happened to do something that upset me, he would often ask if a certain thing could be done to fix it. Whenever I said yes, H would then turn angry. My guess - he probably felt it was controlling behavior on my part, even though he offered up the solution on his own.

Back to conversation, I said, "No, what for? It would just be an inconvenience for you, and besides that, there are still too many possible ways for her to get ahold of you." He said nothing. (Remember that OW is nearby, a close friend of SIL, and might possibly be moving in with SIL.)

Silence for a while again, then he asked if there was no chance, if I had my mind made up.

I said, "The decision isn't mine to make. It is but it isn't. I made the choice to remain here, for all this time, always open to idea of reconciliation. You came to me and said, time and time again, that that was what you wanted, but you never could bring yourself to a decision. Nearly every time you want to talk about us and the R, all I hear from you is doubt, you don't know what you want, you're afraid, you're confused. You know what, H? I have doubts, too. I'm afraid and unsure about a lot of things, too. But I don't let those negative feelings rule my life everyday. I can't, or I won't make it. I have to be strong not just for myself, but for those 3 wonderful boys of ours. I have to pick myself up and be positive, or I will not make it. If I constantly have doubts, and work up these worst-case scenarios in my head like 'well what if this' and 'what if that doesn't work', then I won't go very far. I will only be drowning myself, and I cannot do that. I do not want to live like that."

H then asked what would have to happen if it wasn't too late. He asked, "I'd have to move in?" I said yes and explained how I felt it was too easy for him to turn the other way whenever things got a little heated while he had another place to run to. I also explained that the time being spent together if he were back in the house with the kids and me could make a big difference, seeing how well we actually were getting along on the few "dates" we've had since the new year. Things always seem to fall apart the longer we go without any contact, over the phone or in person.

And, most importantly, he absolutely could NOT have any communication of any kind with the girl he was dating.

H didn't say anything at first, then quietly said alright. Then he had to go. Said his boss was approaching him.

That was that.

Whew!! Man that was long!

So this is where I am. Unless a miracle happens where H MAKES THE CHOICE to move back in, I AM going through with this D. Quite honestly, I don't feel there will be such a miracle. Sorry, I know that's pessimistic, but you know how it is.

Oh, and I also told H that I didn't think he was being entirely honest with me about the sitch with OW. Told him I thought he either didn't tell OW it was over and not to call him, otherwise why would she continue to do so? Or he broke down and called her himself, being confused as he is, tried to get a feel for the situation to see if he could patch things up with her, but found out that she was "dating and moving on". He said nothing, or maybe nothing convincing enough for me to believe.

MIL confirmed a little of my hunch. I talked with her later today, and she asked how things were going between H and me. I told her. She was upset and disappointed and even said she wondered herself if H was still talking to OW. In fact, she said she kind of knew it. MIL said H sort of ripped into SIL last week about her ongoing drama with her H (sadly, they're getting D'ed, too). Well the info H had was only known to SIL and OW (SIL's good friend) because SIL vented it out to OW. The only way H could have possibly known was to have heard it from OW.

So yeah. It just confirms what I knew deep down inside.

Hope everyone else out there is having better luck in their sitches.

[GoingForward]

One more thing:

H claims that OW has always said she hoped he could work it out with me. Interesting, don't you think?

I think if that were true, then she'd be smart enough to stay away from H.

Either OW is the homewrecker type or my H is so full of lies that there isn't an ounce of honesty left in him.

This is just so messed up.

[GoingForward]

It's been bugging me to get to the bottom of the truth in regard to the status between H and his friend.

At the start of this ordeal 3 years ago, after finding out about OW (suppose that should be OW1), I had to know what was really going on. I needed the closure, and I felt that I wasn't getting it from H. I knew he was continuing to be deceitful.

I tried contacting OW1, but she didn't answer her phone, so I left a calm and polite voicemail asking her to please call me. That I had some questions I needed answered. I said I was in no way upset with her since H said she had no idea he was M'ed with children, and I had no desire to argue or cause any trouble with her. I just really needed the closure.

She never called, but I sort of expected that, and let it go.

About two or three weeks later, H's cellphone bill arrived. Never felt the need to look at it before (plus, it was always paid by his employer at that time), but I snooped and discovered some calls that showed H was still in communication with OW1. I don't think I need to tell anyone how devastated I was again. After discovering his A, he assured me it was over and he hadn't talked to her.

When I confronted H with the known calls, he said OW1 was the one initiating contact. Said she would keep leaving messages if he didn't call her back. Wanting to believe my H, this infuriated me.

So I called OW1's cellphone, and again, no answer (she probably recognized my number), but I did leave another message, and I was not so nice that time. I made sure she was aware that I was angry and asked what type of woman was she. What type of woman would continue to have inappropriate contact with a man whom she knew was M'ed and had 3 children?! I told her H said she was the one calling him and not the other way around, that he said he didn't want to talk to her anymore, and she needed to stop what she was doing. I said she could call me if she'd like, but she was to stay away from my H.

Of course no call ever came.

But when the next bill arrived, I found one more call to OW1 that took place a couple of days after my call to her. I was nearly in a rage at this point and demanded to know why he called her. It happened after H and I had a fight, and he said he just wanted to talk to her. I asked what did she have to say, and H said, "She told me to eat sh*t and not to call her again, then she hung up on me."

My guess is that H was lying about telling OW1 not to call him anymore. He was most likely the one initiating the calls, and when I told her in the voicemail that he said it was the other way around, it p*ssed her off. And perhaps knocked some sense into her. With that second call, that was my intent.

So anyway, what I'm getting at is I suspect H is being deceitful again and hiding the real truth from me about his friend, the current OW.

Shoot, I'm running out of time here, so I will be back a little later to write about what went on so far this day.

[GoingForward]

Okie dokie, where was I? I'm a little doped up on sinus/allergy cold medicine right now, so hopefully this post is lucid.

I called SIL today in the hopes that maybe she knew something about H and OW's sitch and would be willing to talk to me. She and I used to talk all the time before this all happened. Always called her my little sis. But when everything went bad with H and me, I began to distance myself from his family. Not sure why I did that exactly. My in-laws were/are good people and always hoped H and I would get back together. They always let me know that no matter what happened, they would always welcome me.

Anyway, I called SIL and said that I really didn't want to get her involved in anything she didn't want, and I realized that she had her own issues to deal with at this time, but I really needed someone to talk to. SIL said it was no problem, I could talk to her anytime.

I asked her if she knew that H and I were trying to reconcile? She said yes. Then I asked if she perhaps had any idea if OW knew this as well. SIL said she did not know about that, but she did know for a fact that H had told OW that he didn't want to see her again. SIL said that she tries not to get involved with that whole thing (H and OW). Told her I completely understood. Then I asked if there was any time at all that she might have overheard OW talking to H, or if OW had even mentioned that she was talking with him still, or if she just knew about them talking or seeing each other at all after H telling OW it was over. SIL said H did mention to her that OW had been trying to call him, but he said he never called her back. She said as far as she knew, they hadn't been talking or seeing one another anymore.

I then told SIL about H admitting that he talked with OW, and I suspected that there might be more to it. I felt that H was only telling me what he wanted me to know. I said I thought maybe SIL knew something and might tell me. I reminded her that I didn't want to put her in a difficult spot, but that I just needed.....and SIL finished, "Closure. I totally understand."

I thanked her and said that it sounds like H did tell OW it was over just as he told me he did, but that this now worried me a little more. SIL said, "Right. Because then why is (OW) still calling him. She shouldn't be. Really, I wish he never started dating her to begin with."

Wondered what SIL meant and why, but I didn't ask. Now I wish I had.

Anyway, we talked some more, and before saying goodbye, SIL said, "Well I'll fish around a little and see what I can find out. I won't make it obvious." I said that wasn't necessary, I just wanted to talk about this. She said no problem again and she still might do it. I said ok, but at this point, it was no big deal.

I felt more at ease after that talk with SIL. I'm starting to think that maybe H was being (somewhat) truthful with me.

But now, it seems to me that OW could be a problem, should H decide to move back home, and especially if OW ends up moving in with SIL.

Like I said in one of my previous posts, it's not my place to tell SIL who can or can't room with her.

I know I'm probably getting way ahead of myself here, but right now I can't help it.

There will be times when H would want to go to his sister's to visit. There will be bbqs, birthday parties for niece, etc. What happens if OW is there? How do I handle that? How do I get through it?

And if H does come back, and OW is still calling him, what do I do? If he asks me again if I want him to change his number, do I say yes? But that could be another control issue for H.

Or do I have to stand my ground again and get angry with OW and call her like I had to with OW1?

[GoingForward]

Not much has changed in the last several days, but I am feeling better today. Been struggling with a sinus cold.

I've had very little contact with H. He is supposed to pick up the boys sometime today and bring them back Monday night.

H did call me last night though, started talking about the R and asking if it was too late to work things out after admitting he talked with OW again.

I didn't answer his question and instead asked, "Since it's out in the open now and there's no sense in hiding anything anymore, did you really at first tell her not to call you again?" H said in a shaky voice, "I told her I thought it might be best if we didn't talk anymore."

Big difference. So that could explain why she continued to call him. H, perhaps, unintentionally intentionally left the door open for her.

Anyway, I mentioned to H that I had a form which he and I needed to go over together and initial and sign. It's the parenting order agreement which basically says we agree to be civil in front of the children, give appropriate notice to each other, blah blah blah.

A pause then H quietly said, "Ok. So does this mean we're going through with the D then?"

A pause from me, then I calmly and carefully said, "I don't know if you're moving back into the house with us or not. You haven't given me YOUR decision. There are only two weeks left before we are due to go into court, and I am just making sure that I am prepared. That's all."

H said, "I can't believe you'd still let me move back in."...... ...... Then he said alright, that he would call when he was on his way to get the boys, then we said goodnight.

Sometimes I wonder, when H is asking if it's too late to work things out, is he referring to the M or to the D/custody agreement?

"I can't believe you'd still let me move back in."......These words are haunting me. What do they mean?

Could it be possible, that H intentionally talked with OW again, then planned to tell me about it, hoping that I would get fed up and make the decision for him not to move back in? Would it be easier for him (less guilt) if I made that choice so he didn't have to?

[GoingForward]

Well, H just left with the kids. When he arrived at first, he gave the kids hugs, and even gave one to me. Felt a little unsure about that but allowed it, although I did pull away first.

Went over allergy meds with H for two of our boys, then took out the parenting order agreement for him to read over, initial, and sign. He wanted me to let him take the form with him (to his place), but I said no. I probably wouldn't get it back because he might misplace it. Didn't say that to H, just told him no, that I was responsible for it and would appreciate it if he could just take the minute or two it would take him to go through it. He said alright and sat down.

He seemed to have an issue with one stipulation which states "neither parent is permitted to transport the minor child(ren) within 8 hours of consuming any alcoholic beverage, or illegal drug, or any combination thereof...". H asked what if he wanted a beer or something while the kids were with him. I said I think that's ok as long as you don't plan to drive anywhere with them soon after (duh!), and I reminded him that he didn't have to agree with anything he didn't want to, and if that was the case, then he shouldn't initial next to that specific, or any other, stipulation.

He initialed all of them.

At one point, H looked up at me from the paper, smiled, and asked why I hadn't put any makeup on to look sexy for him. I laughed and said sorry. With this cold and my allergies bugging me, makeup was the least of my concerns this morning.

A little while later, H gathered the boys' overnight things and told them to get into his car. H approached me then gave me another hug asking if I was mad at him. Surprised me a bit, and I asked for what? H said he just wanted to know if I was mad at him. I said no. I've got nothing to be mad about, I'm through with being angry.

As I walked ahead of him to the car so that I could say goodbye again to the kids, H kept bumping me from behind with the kids' overnight bag and then with his elbow as he passed me up. I asked what was he doing that for, and he said he was just being nice. Ok, I guess.

I gave the boys goodbye hugs and kisses and told them to have fun with Dad. H stood outside his car, smiled at me, and said, "Have a nice weekend, Levi's!" It donned on me that wasn't the first time H called me "Levi's" since he arrived today, and it took me a second to finally realize that the t-shirt I'm wearing says "Levi's" across the front!

So I said, "Ok, you, too, Dickie's!"

H laughed and we said goodbye.

I feel good right now. H and I are still able to laugh and joke with each other. We can still be civil towards one another, and we both still care. There may not be as many of these days as I'd like, but it's good to know that the possibility for more does exist, whether we're together or not.

[karen43]

Just catching up on your thread! I've been so busy lately! I read the caring statements your H and the OW supposedly made, but I think when you look at their actions that is where you see their true feelings and intentions and of course their actions don't seem to indicate a lot of true caring for you and the OW's trying to help out your relationship or wanting it to work out for example, but then her actions are destructive of course. I think sometimes they want to consider themselves nice people and use nice, caring words but their actions indicate otherwise.

It sounds like you and H are in a good place right now. I'm happy for you!!!Karen43

[GoingForward]

Thank you, Karen! I'm happy for me, too!

I feel really at peace with my sitch, and I've never been able to say that and truly mean it before. Pretty cool, I think.

Whatever happens, happens and at least I know I tried everything I possibly could to salvage my M. The clock's ticking, but I'm really not counting either.