Dom, I really appreciate what you are saying. I have been givig her space, and really, not being negative for a long time. To stop all of my objectionable behavior, I think I would have to stop breathing, and I am not prepared to go that far. If I get even an inkling that she is interested, I will go on, but things can't be like this.
I know where you're coming from. believe me.
you're still making excuses, though. Maybe partly my fault, becuase I stated my point so strongly.
thing is, though... there's the whole "breathing" thing and then there are real issues. your rolling your eyes, etc. is a Real Issue. and a MAJOR one. This isnt just "a little habit you do". This is a major thing. IN that I suspect it's just the tip of the iceberg in how you react when your wife gives you her opinion.
If you want things to start improving, you need to go from not just "stopping the negatives", but actively being positive about your wife, and her opinions!
Quote:
If I get even an inkling that she is interested, I will go on, but things can't be like this.
in some ways, you're "in control". You're the one who controls whether things go on like this.
It's all on you. And the "it" is big.
If you do nothing, and wait for her to show interest.. she wont show interest.
If you do "a little", and wait for her to show interest.. she wont show interest.
It sounds like you have years of mistrust, resentment, and other bad feelings between you two (at least from her side).
Think of all that, as like a wall. Not a plaster house wall. Not a brick wall.
But a CASTLE WALL, 20 feet high, and 6 feet thick.
Do you think hitting it will do any good? Do you think even a sledgehammer is going to do any good? not a bit.
You gotta bring in the SIEGE engines, or you may as well just "go home now", so to speak
"Mr. Heat... Tear Down That Wall!"
I know you are majorly discouraged at this point. It's been a long, tiring time. you want to give up, based on "time put in".
thing is... that time may as well not have happened at all. What you did, wasnt enough. You could have spent 10 years doing it, and not gotten anywhere, becuase you werent using the right tool.
Even 20 feet castle walls, can fall. Thing is.. you have to get serious about it. You have to prepare for it. you have to bring the right tools. and you have to mentally prepare for, "this isnt going to happen in an hour; it's going to take days".
(or in your case, "this isnt going to happen in [whatever time you thought it would]: it's going to take 10 times as long. But it CAN happen")
When you have gotten rid of all the "real" problem behaviour on your part, and you've done it for 3 months.. and still there is zero change on her part... then you'll know that it's over.
Everyone makes mistakes from time to time. Everyone makes slip-ups.
The reason why I'm posting this right now, is that I dont think you even realize what you have been doing this whole time.
slip-ups in a plan, are inevitable. it sounds to me, however, lieke you werent on the right plan to start with, though.
Because you've been painting your wife as "the unreasonable one", and so allowing yourself to ignore what she was complaining about, rather than looking past the ranting on her part, to the kernel of truth in her complaints.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
I'll have to do some thinking on this, Dom. There is no question about the wall! The only question is what will it take to tear it down. Lots more thinking to do, but that's why we are here!
I have just completed a marathon read of all your posts! You are so funny and supportive- I can see how you've helped so many people on the boards.
And I have a couple of questions for you. I couldn't see any goals anywhere (maybe I missed them?), so couldn't tell what you want to see, other than a change in general. What changes exactly would you like to see? What would be the first baby step that signals a change is occurring?
I think W could change, but only if she sees continued changes in you, over a period of time. As Dom said, she has built some thick walls around herself, and breaking them down is going to take time....
So a couple of things that came to my mind when I read your thread....would it be a 180 for you to say something to W next time she says something negative about you in front of any of the S's? Or a 180 to lay down some boundaries about what is an appropriate thing to comment on in front of them and what isn't? If you've tried that, what was the outcome? What about consistently agreeing that she is right- validate with no eye rolling! (Although I am reminded at this point of a story in DR/CYL) where W gained respect for H when he started laying down some boundaries....)
Another question I have is around consistency of changes. For example, is the bedroom still tidy? Have you made moves towards replacing the mattress/clearing the CC? Is there a rota in place for the cleaning yet? I read somewhere that it takes 30 goes at a change to make it habit, and that usually it takes 6 weeks for the WAS to even begin to trust the change that might be occurring (and even longer for them to believe the change is permanent). I am guessing since it's been a while you've tried quite a few 180s consistently (?).....
Sorry-lots of questions (that's science girl for you!). Asking W what you guys can do to change will obviously be a big 180 aswell.
I hope I don't sound negative- I don't mean to at all. You just totally deserve to be happy and I would love to help and support you as you do me!
Right. Just off to pop th pokies in!
L.xx
Walk on, walk on, with hope in your heart. And you'll never walk alone.
Wow, Lisa, you must have been really bored! Have you woken up yet?
You know, I don't think I have ever posted a goal, which is pretty silly of me....
So, how about these, as first baby steps:
1. She will say godnight to me, rather than just disappearing. 2. She will return a hug. 3. I get a kiss. 4. I will consistently keep my (our?) room tidy. (It isn't now, though it is better than it was.) 5. I will not react negatively when she says something I think is negative.
I remember once telling her that I though she shouldn't run me down in front of the kids. I don't remember her exact words, but she said she didn't see anything wrong with it. I think the next time it happens I will either walk away, or tell her that I will not listen to that in those circumstances. What do you think?
I will really try not to roll my eyes, I have been better. Things like the pan washing incident make it a real challenge! Is it a test?
I'm working on the CC. I am not getting a mattress until that's done. We could use the one she is on, though it is smaller. We used it for two years. But she says it is too small. I guess because she couldn't get far enough away on it!
You don't sound negative, Lisa. I've gotten so tired, I think I sound negative all the time. I have a hard time even caring, and that makes it hard to really do anything. When I figure out the cure for that, I think I'll be ok, whatever happens!
It wasn't boring at all- your threads are funny, and it was interesting seeing your advice to the others too!
So goals- I like them. Especially the ones that are about you (4 and 5!). For 1-4, do you think there's anything that might happen before any of the goals are achieved that would tell you you're on your way to reaching them? Eg, would W smile at you? or maybe make some eye contact? (Those are examples from what I am hoping to see from my H (One Day!!))
And with the walking away or stating that you won't listen under those circumstances- I think that would be a good 180 to try. I like the options! It's worth a go isn't it? And monitor and see what happens. Maybe try the statement first a few times (consistency!), and then if that doesn't generate a change try the walking away. As far as I can see there's nothing to lose and baby steps to gain!
So sorry you feel lethargic about all this- I think your sich must be so hard to deal with as it's there all the time and you've been dealing with it for so long. At least for me, H isn't here so I'm not constantly on edge about it. I remember thinking before he left that it'd be easier if he did leave for a few days, and miss me (although I didn't want him to). When I get depressed about him having left to date an aubergine you can remind me of this!!
Oh, and great progress on the CC. What happened about the rota?
L.xx
PS The eye rolling. I can only speak for myself, but I think if I was testing my H I would do it periodically, every once in a while and see what happened. Your W's behaviour seems like it's constant and I can't understand it. But one thing I do know is that if my H ever rolled his eyes after I'd said something I would feel pretty hurt - as though he was disrespecting me when I was trying to make a point. Of course, I know it must be hard when things like the pan incident occur, but if it's possible to not do it, I think that could only be a good thing!!
Walk on, walk on, with hope in your heart. And you'll never walk alone.
We haven't made a lot of progress on distributing the chores, though they are genereally getting done. There have been a lot of changes to schoo and work scedules (mostly S18), I hope that once things are settled out we can add to the routine!
Yes, you are right, a smile, and eye contact would be a good first step. I also think that I will get my eyes sugically stabilized, so that they can't roll!
I remember once telling her that I though she shouldn't run me down in front of the kids.
this is a little ambiguous.
Do you mean "talkk to you badly in front of the kids", OR "talk about you badly, TO your kids"
Neither is particularly good. However, i think that very different approaches should be used in each situation.
(btw: I dont think someone should talk badly to their spouse, whether in front of their kids, or not! so if that's the case... it's not the "in front of the kids" you should be dealing with, in my opinion!)
Last edited by Dom R; 02/18/0811:49 PM.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
I remember once telling her that I though she shouldn't run me down in front of the kids.
this is a little ambiguous.
Do you mean "talkk to you badly in front of the kids", OR "talk about you badly, TO your kids"
Neither is particularly good. However, i think that very different approaches should be used in each situation.
(btw: I dont think someone should talk badly to their spouse, whether in front of their kids, or not! so if that's the case... it's not the "in front of the kids" you should be dealing with, in my opinion!)
I don't remember the details, I know that she was saying things that I thought were inappropriate, and I objected, and she steamrolled over my objection. In general it has been "in front of" the kids, though sometimes she will actually bring them into it. That is pretty bad, isn't it!
(((((F1))))) I actually got on a bike yesterday for the first time in, well, a long time. It was embarrassing, fortunately I was by myself! I am hoping make a habit out of that. I drink a glass of wine every couple of weeks, at most, so I don't think that's a big deal. I try to laugh, you know I have a little sense of humor! And I do get hugs from the little guys! I like those. Oh, and the cat loves me!
and then there are real issues.
