I always suspected that was the case, but didnt realize that there was statistical evidence for that. Do you remember where you got that number?
Gosh. I'm going to have to dig and stuff. Give me a few....
I believe that it was in a book that I purchased immediately post bomb that said in effect: If you are reading this book, and these three things have happened, then you are so scr*wed. I threw that book away like it had the plague.
(((((Ingrid))))) I think I would start with a separation, though I don't really know how that would help. Though she might realize that I do perform some useful functions around the house.
Dom, I usually do acknowledge when he is right, somehow she wants it in blood or something. It is hard to describe, but sayig she is right, agreeing with her, doesn't work. If I disagree, I'm wrong, if I agree, I'm only doing it to shut her up, if I say nothing I am avoiding the discussion. In most cases it has turned into a lose-lose situation. I'm sure in large part due to negative expectations on both sides. It's become a habit. I have really tried to bread it on my side, but it seems to only take one to have a fight!
(((((F1))))) You are right, I am using logic, and common sense. It's the engineer/nerd/geek in me, I guess. I know it could blow up, but it is what I have. In general, I think she is pretty predictable, so we'll see.
As far as an OM, I am as sure as I can be that there isn't. Of course, I would not be the first to be wrong about that. But really, her time is awfully well accounted for. And there is nothing at all on her cell phone, though of course she could be hiding one. But never using it that I can tell. A lot of anti-man stuff comes out of her mouth, I get to take the brunt, being one, but I think it is real. She holds a lot of resentment over real and perceived wrongs inflicted on women by men through all of history. And I don't know that there have been a lot that really were against her specifically, except that she probably let expectation control her path through life?
Financial protection wise, the only things I really have are the house, and my 401(k). Both of which are hard to run off with. She has more stuff in account I can't get to than I do, but even that isn't much, and she has expenses coming out of them, so it isn't a big deal. I probably won't like the end result, if things go badly, but in the end, I think I'll be ok. It helps that the older two boys are over 18, and she is working now. That was supposed to be to pay for college tuitions, but that might just have to change. I don't like that idea, but something has to change!
Still thinking. Still considering! Thanks to all of you for your support and advice!
A building is burning across the street. Logic says to run over inside and try to help people out. Once inside, nothing is the way you imagined. Nothing.
All logic just became useless. You are now questioning life itself. How can you help anyone else, if you may not be able to help yourself.
Have you considered you may be about to push her into a corner where she really will have no way out with dignity, except to defend and fight to the death?
If our situations were anything alike, it is not because I did that. I took all the crap she could conjure up. I gave all the rope I had, and then some. I would have down anything to get the X to take enough time and space to find her way back to the M. She was the one to say one of us had to go. She had pretty well secretly made up her mind and just struggled with finding the strength to end it.
I left. Never should have. I took my clothes to my dad's for about 18 months. She filed one year to the day of my moving. From the moment I left she said and did all she could to destroy my very being. She wanted me to give up and file. One of the boys was already moved out and the other was about to when I left. During the first year, they both moved home from college for the summer. She made it hell for them.
I never should have left. The boys were afraid I was going to hurt myself. My dad and sisters held a watch over me. I thought I would never enter my home again, or spend time there with the boys. In the last hour of the settlement I bought her out at a premium. She took her clothes and got an apartment. In the beginning all she could talk about wanting was her own little place.
I should have helped her pack and move in the beginning. Not sure how much would have changed. She would have had her private space to sort things out quicker. The kids wouldn't have had to watch her getting dolled up and going out all night on weekends, with "friends". Then complain to me that the men avoid her when they find out she is still M. Poor thang.
So X is now 17 again, but turning 50 this year. I've tried to make my home a safe place for the boys again. They visit and sometimes bring friends. Youngest was deeply damaged by the D. He was in college and became critically depressed. He wound up moving back in for four months last year. A friend of his used a guest room during that time while he was also getting past some problems in his life. I could not have been there for any of them if I had not managed to come home. Things would have been completely different if it had been up to X.
But what am I trying to suggest to you? I'm not sure. I'm not M to your W. But I was M to one that decided she had no feelings for me anymore and began going out with "friends" even before she decided one of us had to leave. She was caught in lies about who she was really with. I gave her forgiveness, and more rope.
Maybe my point is that we can tolerate quite a bit when we love someone else as much or more than we love ourself. Maybe my point is that I never comitted a crime that warranted my moving out of my home, or leaving my sons in her care. Maybe my point is you should not take this experiment too lightly in hopes of creating a miracle. You should completely expect the worst and honestly be prepared for it. Or wait.
Make up your mind first, what is best for the kids? They are not the ones making these decisions, but they will be forever affected by them. If you end up asking her if she wants in or out, be sure you are ready to define "out" in a way that does not portray her as a bad parent, only a spouse who wants to be on her own rather than working on the M.
If she wants to get an apartment, it is only the beginning, not the end. She might learn what she is missing. She might find it with someone else. You have a lot to think about before you run across the street into the burning building. Once you do, things won't look the way you expect. Reality will change, as will your life. Rolling the dice on this one will be very very serious. We know you have been at this a while. We support you and your decisions. We just hope you give yourself and the kids nothing short of your best. That even goes for the W.
It is hard to describe, but sayig she is right, agreeing with her, doesn't work. If I disagree, I'm wrong, if I agree, I'm only doing it to shut her up, if I say nothing I am avoiding the discussion. In most cases it has turned into a lose-lose situation. I'm sure in large part due to negative expectations on both sides. It's become a habit. I have really tried to bread it on my side, but it seems to only take one to have a fight!
I think you are in some respects, playing the victim here. you're pretending that she's the only one putting negative energy in. But you are doing it too. you're just doing it in a passive-aggressive way.
If you want to save your marriage... I would like to suggest that you follow the DB chapter about doing things with a "beginner's eyes". Try to take a fresh look at EVERY interaction you have with her. Down to EVERY word, EVERY guesture, that you make.
Try to see what you are doing, that is making things worse between the two of you. Then, if you can see it... stop it.
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As far as an OM, I am as sure as I can be that there isn't. Of course, I would not be the first to be wrong about that. But really, her time is awfully well accounted for. And there is nothing at all on her cell phone, though of course she could be hiding one. But never using it that I can tell. A lot of anti-man stuff comes out of her mouth, I get to take the brunt, being one, but I think it is real. She holds a lot of resentment over real and perceived wrongs inflicted on women by men through all of history.
aha... you might keep an eye out for the possibility of an "OW" then.
it's a long shot. But stranger things have been seen on these forums. IF there is... it doesnt mean that you have lost her. It just means that things got a lot more complicated.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
aha... you might keep an eye out for the possibility of an "OW" then.
it's a long shot. But stranger things have been seen on these forums. IF there is... it doesnt mean that you have lost her. It just means that things got a lot more complicated.
Yep, people do kooky crazy weird things for love. Seems to make things more complicated. People seem to act weirder.
As W2S says, you will be stepping into the looking glass if you continue forward on this path. It may be the only way out, I have no idea, it's just best to know that anything and everything can and will happen.
Following the White Rabbit is not a good time.
As Dom says, maybe there is a way out that isn't that? Again, try your best, and ask for help as you've been doing so well.
I've been thinking about what you wrote, W2S. To this point she has been a great mom. I don't see any evidence that will change, of course I could be wrong. She doesn't seem to be interested in being "out", just interested in not being with me. At this point, I have to say, the feeling is mutual, most of the time. I really don't intend to back her into a corner, though I guess she could choose to see it that way. But, there has been no change at all for at least two years, really more than that. She appears to be content this way. So, I don't see how anything will change unless I do something to change it.
Dom, I see what you are saying, and I agree to an extent, but I have really tried not to feed the negativity. I know I do sometimes, but there is a lot more coming from her than from me. Last night I gave her a little "side" hug, and said "Happy Anniversary". She said, "Happy Anniversary to you to", in about the flattest, deadest, coldest, voice I could imagine. That was it. I know it took two of us to get to where we are, but for a long time there has only been one of us interested in any different. DB things really haven't made much difference, she's a WAW except she still lives here.
The OW thought has crossed my mind. I actually would not be as shocked as one would think. Though I really don't suspect anything right now. I'd actually be less surprised at that than at on OM. What's that say? I don't know!
I had another thought on the burning building....even though I don't know what's in there, I have to run in. Hopefully I will know the right thing to do when I get inside!
(((((F1))))) Didn't see your post, since I was busily writing as you posted it! I'm not done thinking about what I should do, and I may change my path at the last instant. If I do this, I know that the last time it will be the way I expect it to be will be about the time I finish my first sentence, if not before. But that doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do.
Thanks for your kind words and support. If any of us knew "the Answer", it wouldn't be nearly as much fun!
Just thought I'd stop by and say hello. There's been lots going on here!
One thing I wonder is what things were like between you and W when you first got together and before things started getting difficult. Were there any obvious differences (I am guessing there must be!) other than the general change from positivity to negativity? Has W always wanted to be right, and if so how did you used to react to that 20 years ago? (Sorry if I'm recovering old ground)
20 years ago? Not sure I just read right that you've been married 22 years. You don't look more than 30 to me!
Thinking of you, and hope the weekend has been OK.
Firstly, yes you read right! The clock ticked over to 23 years yesterday! I guess I'd better fix my profile! As fr as how old I look, uh, well, uh, how does one say this nicely.....have you had yours eyes checked recently? (And where did you find me to look?) Thanks, though, I appreciate your very kind words!
I think she has always wanted to be right, but I think that she was not as confident, perhaps, years ago. Perhaps the way that I handled conflict led her over time to take a more aggressive path. I don't really know. If we get into MC, I hope that we can work through that.
My weekend has been ok, I had to go to work yesterday, W worked yesterday, so it wasn't a big deal that way. It was our anniversary, but as I already wrote, that passed with little fanfare! Today is a bright sunny day, and I am doing the laundry, and maybe working on getting the taxes done. I might try to get a bike out, and take a short spin. I need to do something if I am going to look anywhere near 30!
Oh, how are things going on your side of the pond?
