Great approach with your D. It isn't fair to do that with a kids and besides it never works. They always spill the beans. When I get home at night my kids always tell me what happened with the W that day. Usually its something funny, but most of the time it's just what happened that day (or that mom stole their candy.....)
W sent me a text asking if D was ok last night. I wrote her an e-mail and told her she had a great time, loved seeing the old babysitter and was excited to go to daycare again today.
I also wrote that it felt a bit odd to have the babysitter over w/out us leaving for a date, but it made D really happy, so I was totally fine with it.
I had D call W last night to tell her goodnight and I reminded W that I'll have her do it again tonight at 8 pm. I also told W I'm going to start teaching D how to dial W on my cell phone so she can call her whenever she wants to talk to her mommy.
I'm struggling to get through this day b/c I want to see my D again and as soon as I can get out of here, I'm gone.
Tonight it will again be whatever she wants (w/in financial reason, of course). I want to be able to maximize her enjoyment in the little time I have her right now. I need to savor every moment b/c I'm not pulling the strings in this one.
I keep praying for patience, strength, perserverence, and compassion. Those are my daily requests right now to help keep my focus on the goals of DBing and saving my marriage.
Hey RTL, I've been out of the loop for a while, thought I would check in with you. Lots has been going on with me but I want to talk about you.
I just read 26 pages worth of your threads. I'm really sorry you're going through this. It's tough. I know the pain you feel. I'm sorry.
My first impression after all that reading? You need to detach more.
example: "I also wrote that it felt a bit odd to have the babysitter over w/out us leaving for a date, but it made D really happy, so I was totally fine with it.
Look, it is fine to feel that feeling. But you do not need to share it. Sharing that feeling is pressure. Period. With your comment, you are reminding her that you and she used to go on pleasant dates. She doesn't feel it for you now, RTL. You telling her that you feel it for her .... that's just pressure to her. Makes her feel guilty and rotten. Rubs her nose in it. It's an honest feeling you are having. but must you share it? Can you put a filter on your mouth? (or fingers) Can you feel your feelings, and also decide which ones you want to share, and when?
I like how you are handling your daughter and her statement that mommy loves you very much and this will just be our little secret. Sure sounds totally natural to me that a 4 year old child wants her parents to stay together. You especially need to be there to listen to your daughter, because most assuredly your W is not focused on that little girl right now. She needs extra love.
About OM kissing your wife, I'm not real comfortable allowing that in front of a 4 year old. That is too much, too soon, and seeing it is not healthy for her. Consider involving your therapist about this. You cannot do anything about W's relationship with OM, but it is inappropriate and unhealthy at this time for it to be on display to a 4 year old child. Consider taking action on this - asking L to write up a statement requesting that PDA's between W and OM be private. And before you tell me "I can't mention that", you can mention it because your daughter reported it to you. This troubles her. You are the father. You need to act and protect her. D4 is not ready for this. She is much too fragile to be exposed to this. Regardless how your W feels about YOU, it is traumatic for D4 to see W with OM. Your W should not be doing these things in front of her. Period. I feel very strongly about this.
on the go-dark-vs-go-grey question. I prefer the grey. You have "business" with your wife, even if it is just logistics of exchange for your daughter. Every time she hears your voice it is a chance for you to DB. Every time she hears your voice you should strive to be happy, cheerful, lighthearted. Every time she sees your face is a chance for her to see a smiling, cheerful, well-dressed, stable, confident RTL. I know. I know you don't feel all those things, all the time right now. But is it possible for you to show them, at least during the brief times she interacts with you. Putting on your sad eyes for when she cleared out the house- I know that had to be a sad moment for you. But it is better, honestly, if she sees you stable, cheerful, solid, as opposed to weepy, desperate, needy.
It is absolutely ok to feel weepy and desperate sometimes. But could you do that privately? Or share it here? Your W is not ready for that right now. It's not helping her, or your marriage, for you to share your pain with her, right now.
On the question of whether the police were necessary. I feel you there. I have faced many similar situations. I try to take a step back and look at what is at stake. Let's assume it's the belongings in the house. Do I Really care about a sofa, a TV, a blender? No. I don't. I'm working on my marriage and those material things are secondary (at best). So reading your sitch, I would not have gone heavy with the police presence. That feels really threatening to me, just reading about it.
On the question of calling D4 or not - absolutely call her every day. Write her. Send her packages and parcels. If you spent every day with her prior to this time, then she is missing you right now. She needs your presence. a phone call is a poor substitute for a hug, for a 4 year old. But it will have to do, on those days when you cannot see her. Think of your daughter. She doesn't see you. She doesn't understand what is happening. All she knows is that you are not there every day, like you used to be. She will conclude that you don't love her, that while she cannot see you, you are not thinking of her. She will conclude that she is no good, her daddy doesn't want her. This is not true, but it is what a four year old will believe, subconsciously. Therefore you need to constantly re-assure her that you will always love her, will always be her daddy. Every day. Every day. She needs this, now more than ever. Do not let your wife's aggressive tactics push you away from your daughter.
Maybe make sure she has a framed photo of you and her, to put next to her bed.
About the joint checking account and credit card things - seems to be par for the course. I took the same step (Closing accounts, etc) to force some rationality on my situation. I'm sorry it's happening to you.
About the lawyers - be careful following their guidance, on things like "make sure the police are at your house." Lawyers do not share your perspective. No matter what they say, they are born and bred to fight out a divorce. They are not signed up to fix a marriage. They want what is best for their client as an individual, through a dissolution of a marriage. this is what they do, all day every day. no matter what your L says, he has 30 years of conditioning telling him to FIGHT the other party. Don't let them pick fights you don't want. Question everything they suggest. you are a reluctant participant here, remember that. Be careful that the L does not stir up your feelings of victimhood, so that you want to GET your wife, or you want to PROTECT yourself from your W. That is what a L will tell you to do. Often, that is not DBing.
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As I have always said, there's no need to beat yourself up over things you have done. Best thing is to just live and learn, keep on keeping on.
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
I saw my mother-in-law when I picked up D today and I made sure to tell her thanks for loving me as her son, that they meant a lot to me and that although I don't know what the hell is going on, God must have some sort of a plan and I've got to trust He knows what He's doing. I also told her I wasn't going to give up on her daughter and I'm planning on fighting for us until I can't fight anymore.
I am so glad your M-I-L is supportive of your marriage. On the other hand, you should know that family members can exert unwanted and unhealthy pressure on a WAS, too. Telling her, you are not going to give up on her daughter - I know that is a heartfelt emotion. But it may get right back to your W, and again, PRESSURE. Maybe a better way to express it is, "I don't like what she is deciding, but I am supporting her right to choose the path she is on."
Of course you don't want to give up your marriage. But if your MIL cannot mind her tongue, the stuff you share with her may just go right back to your W, where it may push her away.
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
SPM makes some excellent points. I can relate with the kissing of OM in front of the kids as this was the main reason I filed for a D. This is pretty much demonstrating to your D4 that permiscuous behavior is acceptable. Do you want your D to grow up to be permiscuous herself? You can probably use this against your W if it comes down to the psychologist interviews.
I too have been reading a lot of failure to detach from you. Just keep repeating the mantra until it does not cause you to tear up:
My marriage is over. I dont need my marriage. But, I want my marriage
My wife is gone. I dont need my wife. But, I want my wife.
On the subject of lawyers, they are doing YOU a service. If you dont feel comfortable with the strong arm tactics getting you anywhere in your DBing efforts, tell the L to back off. You can always pull the L hammer back to the cocked position if W is causing you grief.
I think it is important to find a lawyer that you are comfortable with. Interview a few of them. I talked to a number on them and went with the guy who understood exactly what I wanted. He is there to protect me and the kids, not to hurt my W. The guy has actually sent me a couple of emails just to see how I am doing. Imagine that, a lawyer with a soul.
Kerry and SPM are right. Detaching helps a lot. I need to work on it as well. When I'm on board, life is much better.
I too would worry if D is saying things like, "We will keep this our little secret." She is being told to do that about things form someone else. Maybe your W, maybe the OM, who knows. I would certainly advise you to inform your L of this because I believe for your D's well being this shouldn't be happening. I truly don't mean to alarm you but this behavoir worries me. Children should not be used in this fashion, as a pawn to do someone's dirty deeds so to speak.
Both 35 T 19/M 15 years S8/D5 It's over bomb/ILYBNILWY 12-22-07
SPM, I have missed you, your insight, and caring, my friend. I'm going to reply to your unfortunate situation when I am free tomorrow.
Kerry, Wooglint, and monkey, thank you for chiming in. I really appreciate your wisdom.
I know exactly why I said how I felt about the former sitter/college student coming over -- I wanted W to know I wasn't having her there to fool around with. I didn't want her getting jealous and thinking about me w/ women in the house. I guess I just need to not care if she is jealous as long as my motives are pure.
I totally understand about what you are saying. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but for me to be able to detach in the right way, I can't say anything that remotely brings up our marriage at any time. Correct?
I didn't think of the babysitter comment as pressure, but once you point it out to me, I do. I also didn't think about what I said to the MIL because it came in the middle of our conversation and we were both emotional. I guess I let my guard down a bit.
Ok, I'll make sure to edit everything prior to sending it. If I'm unsure at any point, I'll not hit send.
On the subject of the police, I'm glad you said something, SPM, because it made me uneasy. I'm glad they didn't show up. However, in a way, it was a bit of a 180 because she didn't expect it from me. I know it also made her angry, but it was something different. Now I have to work on the something different being far more positive interactions.
I'm slowly starting to emerge from the haze and fog and realizing I'm in control of what my L does. This is ne and odd for me to be sure, but I can see where we can talk and not cross the legal lines.
Speaking of which, I'm also going to give my W some more of the items she asked to have for her apartment. I'm going to give them to her and tell her that I want her to have them for her and D regardless of what the L says.
To that extent, I did send her an e-mail yesterday addressing her financial concerns and her closing of our accounts. I began the e-mail telling her I wasn't ccing my L on it as I just wanted this to be an opportunity for us to communicate. I said she can choose to send it to her L if she wished, but I'm not including mine on the e-mail.
I simply said I was sorry she was stressed by the financial situation and I do wish we could have discussed things before she decided to close the accounts. I offered to pay 1/2 of anything that clears the account after it was closed as she should not be stuck with this tab.
I also mentioned the fact it was unfortunated she was confused about the credit situation because it caused her stress and that I had never had other accounts open that she was not aware of. I made sure she knew I had received a check for the work expenses on the credit card and that I would pick up my personal tab of roughly $200 from when I was in D.C. in January.
I kept it with this and asked her a few questions about her car insurance payment that is due on Tuesday and left it at that. I'm hoping this can be the start of some cordial exchanges between us and help to rebuild our relationship and provide me with chances to DB.
She did e-mail me back today saying she was glad D was having fun and thanked me for having her call last night. I'm going to have her call again tonight and I'm also going to call for her every night before she goes to bed. SPM is exactly right on this one--I need to contact her daily if I can't see her daily.
Ok, that is it for now, I guess. I'll let you know more as I get it. Thanks for the detaching info and I'm hoping my definition of what I need to do was correct. I think I've been a bit confused as to what thorough detaching is up to this point.
Kerry - I'm going to use the mantra to my advantage and to help create an independent mindset. Thank you.
Just had D call W to tell her goodnight. D was pouty b/c I had paused her movie so she could talk to her mommy. She was more concerned w/ the movie than mommy, but she is 4.
I got on the phone and explained it to W who got ticked at me and said "If she doesn't want to pause her movie to talk to me, don't have her pause her movie. Tell her I love her and hang up the phone."
I'm pretty sure I'm doing the right thing here, but I'm getting chastized for it. In any event, I told D her mother's message and hung up the phone.
Who knows when I'll get to see her again. I'm hoping that by giving her a few more things she'll soften a bit more and be somewhat cordial when we speak.
Very disappointed, but also what else should I expect?
Big Hugs RTL. I've been reading your posts and really wishing that you werent in the crappy situation that you are in, but not feeling like I had anything more to add!
You are making progress in your DB - keep up the good work. It does sound like you are in the very fast, very scary part of the roller-coaster. What an up and down 2 weeks or so you have had.
I promise you that you will be OK and it will get better, even if it doesn't feel like it at the moment. You are getting good advice (I like SPM's comments especially). Detaching is the key, but its a bit like learning how to balance on a bike. You cant explain it or really think about it.... then all of a sudden you are up and riding the bike (a bit wobbly at the start). Keep aiming to lovingly detaching from W and W's drama.
