Yes, that's the first question. And your answers are typical. I am guessing, because I only know our answers, but I think most of the men were totally absorbed in their work. And most of the women were worried. And the point is to contrast that to how you feel later when all is revealed at Retrouvaille, and you have gone through the experience. So you only did the first half of that question.
My husband also had trouble the first night. He claimed to be put into a bad state by the fact that we were in a monastery and there was a priest in the room, and all of that brought back the bad feelings of his Catholic schooling. He didn't answer the question the first night at all. When we were supposed to be exchanging the notebooks, he went for a walk. Then he finally answered the question the next morning when he was feeling calmer. I refused to let him leave. But I knew he was fingering those car keys in his pocket. I was afraid I would have to hitch a ride home.
You obviously have strong visceral reactions to things. In a way that is good, because you know what upsets you and deal with it, instead of stuffing your feelings like a lot of other people would. But as I said earlier, strong negative feelings are not bad -- apathy is bad. And the goodbye letter is not bad either. Many people on this board talk about ending their old marriages. Accepting the death of the old marriage, and starting a new relationship with the same person. It can be done. And it is probably an idea that would work well for you and your husband.
This is a hard road, and you have to do it at your own speed. I'm sure Retrouvaille would welcome you back when you feel that you are ready.
I'm sorry for the down turn of events...I think that it's good you are in touch with and being honest about how you're feeling. And the agreement you came to in regards to taking a month off sounds like a wise thing to do--space to process your emotions without interactions and their repurcussions clouding everything.
I think Sara has a valid point too...things change and drama is not always a bad thing.
sorry you guys left Retro, but I'm glad to hear your H was recepting and willing to do your own version of it, yey Just got this book from the library called forgive for love. Come to think of it, lots of my insecurities and jumping to conclusion dramas come from the fact that perhaps i have not forgiven my H 100%, I prob hold some small % of grudge which feeds on anger and makes me think irrational thoughts.
Here is a bit about the stages of forgiveness (i'm posting this for my own benefit too
* I want to waste as little of my life as possible in the pain caused by anger and hurt. I want to react well when things do not go the way I want in my marriage. This decision will allow me to forgive myself, forgive my partner and even forgive life itself when necessary.
* I know it hurts when my partner doens't forgive me. I do not want to hurt him/her in this way, so I will look at the problem in such a way that I can either deal with it successfully or let go.
* I understand that everyone, myself included, operates primarily out of self-interest. I expect that sometimes I, in my self interest will be hurt by my lover's own expression of self-interest. When I understand that this is an ordinary part of life, what is there to be upset about?
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
I don't know how you view forgiveness, but I'd like to share a few of my thoughts on the topic, the way I've approached it:
1-It's not a one-time deal. It's a continuous choice. It's important to feel and deal with your feelings connected to what brought about the need for forgiveness, but you can still choose to do it every time they bubble over. When the feelings come back, you go back to your choice.
2-As you make the choice to forgive, you will be strengthened and lifted. You're not in this alone, whatever your view of God, there is power in loving and walking by faith.
3-Forgiving doesn't mean forgetting...it means letting go of the anger and allowing peace to live in your heart.
I renamed my thread, see title of this post. (how do I make it official?)
Thank you so much, not only for the support but also for the helpful meditations. It is like getting sight of road signs which mark the path ahead, which let you know how to negotiate the next bend in the road (like, slow down and bear left, you idiot, or you'll go crashing through the guard rail & sailing off over the cliff!!)
I love it that I've met a group of people who just never give up (could you all be Taurus sun signs?) and who have plenty of hard information between them about what to do when your marriage stalls out and you can't think of anything else but leaving.
My mood has been remarkably even, calm, consistent since giving the good-bye letter. I didn't react much to H's (very small/weak/fragile) olive branch, and what little reaction I did have is dissipated now. He sent me an email yesterday telling me he'd put the Retrouvaille handbook & notebook into the mail, you should receive it on Friday blah, blah and "thanks for the powerful conversation" -- all I could think was "do you really like this kind of drama? You never used to be that way, H"
But I didn't have the slightest urge to answer his email, to keep the thread of relationship alive like I would have done in the past. Did do in the past, a lot. I used to glom onto any little bit of communication and keep it going, even when I was feeling pretty pessimistic or hurt or angry or disappointed with him. It's like I really have, finally, detached from my attachment to the relationship, to what it was, to what I hoped it would be again, to keeping it going at all costs.
So what am I doing? I'm sleeping well. I'm GALing. My version of GAL is to do my taxes -- which may sound like not much of a life, but it is pretty huge for me. I've never done my own taxes before. There's not a lot of things I'm afraid of. I'm not afraid of horses or large dogs. I'm not afraid of the dark or of being alone. I'm not afraid of dressing horrific physical wounds or of assisting at open heart surgery or of having a conversation with a recently bereaved person. But I am afraid of doing taxes, so that's what I'm doing these past two days. Also, I had 3 ripe banannas and I made bananna bread with them last evening -- for my entire adult life I've always had the intention and the motivation to do that with ripe banannas instead of finally sucuumbing and throwing them in the garbage because I didn't have the time to make bananna bread. I'm also thinking very hard about getting a dog. I even cut out some ads. I always said throughout the marriage, to H, that he'd spoiled other men for me and if anything ever happened to him I'd get a good Lab. Well, something happened to him.
Stay tuned. I haven't given up on the battle for the marriage yet, but I have stood down my forces for the time being.
We're glad you're here too. You bring your own talents and perspectives to help lift us as well. So, thank you for being here!
Congrats on facing your fear of taxes and making banana bread! My problem with banana bread is that I want to just gobble it all up! So I have to give it away when I make it. Well, at least half of it.
Well, we're still plugging away at it. Emails back and forth, phone call last evening. H eager to work on Retrouvaille method, we had a good first session and H wanting to do more questions. I'm still in 'detached' mode, not at all interested in resuming physical contact, not attached to having the relationship at all costs although of course would like it if it worked out. H really is a wonderful companion. "Getting along" was never a problem for us, that's why I wondered what it was that Retrouvaille would teach us.
I think I've figured out why 'we weren't ready for Retrouvaille'. This epiphany came for me today after journalling on the one thing that marred the H conversation for me, the one place where I reacted to something that H said with revulsion. I realize that H has not given up, and has no intention of giving up, the behaviors which led to his EMA -- his habit of 'deep sharing' and of 'giving emotional support' to women co-workers. It's almost like he can't give up these behaviors. He gets good feelings from being able to support others in this way, and those others are inevitably women, and those good feelings act to boost his chronic sense of low self-esteem (that's what he calls it, I call it 'depression')
Fortunately, the latest lucky recipient of H support is lesbian, but frankly, I'm not likely to put myself in a position where I have to rely on qualities of POWs to preserve my ongoing relationship with H. I'm beginning to think my emotional meltdowns were not related so much to being unable to forgive the EMA -- more like a defence mechanism protecting me from getting in too close to H when he's likely to develop another EMA as self-medication for depression. I sent him an email about this today. Stay tuned!
Retro is supposed to help you connect w/your S, and perhaps if your H learns to connect w/you he wouldnt' be looking to have his ego stroked by other women, would realize that he doesn't need to go elsewhere for that feel good feeling. Hope he sees this eventually :P
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
Cat is exactly right. Retrovaille teaches each spouse to listen to the other's feelings with his or her heart. Once you zero in on caring about the spouse's feelings (this is why it takes a weekend; this takes practice for both spouses), it removes the couple from the outside world. The marriage becomes an important focus, not just a fact of life.
