We need to learn to appreciate what's at our feet in the moment realizing it could be gone or replaced in the next. We cling so desperately to what we've acquired thinking we deserve it, we earned it. We start looking at life as if there were a scarcity of things that make us happy. We do anything to hold on to it, because there is no substitute for it. If we learn to look at life as if there is an abundance and it's ours for the taking, loss wouldn't make us so unhappy. We can simply let go and look a head to the next treasure we dig up. It's out there all around us. It won't matter in the end because we are not going to take anything in this world with us when we are gone. Our best hope is to leave some goodwill behind.
My anger has dissipated because I'm learning to live in the moment and enjoy what is in front of me at the time. It took me a while to understand and recognize the truth in this principle. It has calmed the hurt and anxiety in me.
Thanks for these thoughts. I've been where I'm at for so long because I didn't think there was any 'abundance' in the world, that I was being robbed of my happiness.
Instead, I was looking past it for too long, not seeing that it was there to be manifested by me, in the form of doing the things that make me happy. Of spending the real quality time with my daughters and with my wife. Of just deciding to be happy.
As I'm typing these thoughts, I see in my minds eye images of my W, D12 and D17 and I doing fun things together in the past. W is laughing and the love is present. So, I do know HOW to be happy and manifest it in my life around me. It HAS existed and was real.
Now, I'll make it exist again. My reality may be one of a man who has a wife that is leaving but it's also of a man who still, after all the trials I've been through, has a huge heart and is a loving and caring person.
And I still have plenty of years to leave behind some 'good will'. I pray and hope that all the good I've been able to contribute to others on this board hasn't been overshadowed by my recent fall from grace and by me losing some of my calmness and control of my emotions.
There are some people here who are pissed at me because I slipped into some real fear and anger, and I'm hoping that the anger that they are feeling because I didn't use my words impeccably and I didn't take a moment to appreciate their help before responding with my own anger and frustrations hasn't had a negative effect on their lives and situations.
Is the 'old Frank' back? Somewhat. I think it's more like the 'New Frank' is under construction. Thanks for being patient with me.
There are some people here who are pissed at me because I slipped into some real fear and anger, and I'm hoping that the anger that they are feeling because I didn't use my words impeccably and I didn't take a moment to appreciate their help before responding with my own anger and frustrations hasn't had a negative effect on their lives and situations.
Frank, I didn't feel in others posts that they were 'pissed' at you, (well maybe Amy C). I don't think they were 'angry' with you either; I just got the feeling they wanted you to realise that YOU were angry and maybe not reacting as you usually would - it was a shock perhaps to them.
Really nice to see the Frank that is now emerging, (I didn't know the old Frank but I had heard very good things about him), long may it continue.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Today I am doing well. somewhat better at detaching even though I'm getting lots of weird stuff thrown at me. Being more like I Want to be. The real Frank. Sometimes it hurts to be me, but I'm using boundaries effectively.
So, here are some roller coaster rides I got yesterday and today. First, let me say that I have been pleasant whenever I talk to W. I don't go out of my way to talk to her but sometimes it can't be helped.
Saturday she was at an 'event' put on by the healing center she does her massage at. Various vendors, including her, were set up at a local food store to give demos, hand out brochures.
at around 1 pm I was out of the house and D12 called my cell to say she was feeling sick and needed me. I went right home. she had a little fever so I gave her some medicine and put her to bed. W called a short while later to check on her and I told her what I'd done, how she was feeling and that she had asked for some juice so I was going to go to the store to get some.
Well, W was at the store and said she could bring some home with her. I asked her if she was coming home soon, she said not till 4:30. It was 1 pm and I said D12 wanted some now, so I was going to go get some. She seemed insulted, and I said I appreciated that she offered to bring some home later. I suggested she bring something else later that might be helpful to D12. She said "Like WHAT?".
I said "I don't know, whatever you think would be good."
She said goodbye and I went and got the juice.
Later she came home and was really beat from the long day. She said she didn't hand out many brochures but got to know the other vendors better. she was pretty tired and I was thinking that it was too bad she was leaving me, she could have used some loving, maybe a foot rub.
So she went to bed early instead.
I stayed up and journaled. It was interesting because I really got into some depth of our relationship, and the relationship's I've had with her Dad, Mom, Brother and others in her family. Most of what I was realizing was that there has been a consistent pattern where I am the one who has never really 'quit' on anything, but W has quit lots of things. She has started 'at home' courses on holistic healing and never finished them. She's taken classes for other things and never finished. Massage is the first thing she took that she finished.
I also noticed a lot of times when I was the one who was her 'cheerleader' to get her to do something when she was unsure of herself. You may recall that 2 years ago during the affair I encouraged her to rent the space in the Salon even when she was afraid she would fail. And she had OM at the time.
I've always given her unconditional love and support. Always.
The past few days she's been looking through her old photo albums. She wrote something in her journal (yeah, I read it) about herself, how she had almost become a nun when she was 17, how she was trying to redeem herself for her teenage promiscuity and other stuff along those lines. Then she decided to try to be normal, she found me, she left me, etc, etc,
She ended the entry with the comment "I just don't want to be toxic to anyone any more".
So, today we're driving to the church and she says to me that she is going to go back to her home town on tuesday (It's about an hour or so drive) and probably not be back till wednesday night.
She says she has to go now because she doesn't know when she'll have a tuesday free again (she doesn't work tuesdays as a rule) because she may get a job soon which will take away that freedom she's had.
I asked her where she was staying, and who was she visiting. She says "I don't know, I'm going to go get some closure on some things. Nobody I used to know lives there any more anyway." then she says "I'm going to say good bye to my brother".
She starts to tear up, and I reach over and hold her hand.
After a moment she says "I may go stay with Gramma 'M'". I say "that sounds good, don't worry about us, we'll be ok." She says "I KNOW you'll be ok".
Now, her brother is alive and lives in Seattle. But when he was 17 he was in a motorcycle accident and on a coma for a month. at the time W was pregnant with D17, my first partner had just screwed me out of our business and things were tough but we were ok.
She would go visit him every day and talk to him while he was asleep. He has never been the same person since then. He has a severe narcissistic streak, memory and other personality issues and ended up marrying a controlling immature woman who eventually drove him to where he just walked out on her one day (sound familiar). He battled for visitation of his kids but she beat him in court and now he never gets to see them, hasn't for years.
So, all I can think of is she is saying 'goodbye' to the brother she knew before the accident 18 years ago. But why? He's kind of a mess these days but he's not dead. It also feels like she needs to visit these places where bad things may have happened so she can get closure?
Very weird stuff going on but I can't tell her not to go, she's going to have to deal with her demons her own way.
As we're driving to the church she says "I think I might live here (the town where the church is) since I'm making friends here. I could get a one bedroom apt and the girls could share the bed when they are staying with me."
My first thought: "Why are you telling me this?? Am I supposed to say 'oh, that will be cool!'" ???
My second thought: "I guess you aren't going to fight to stay in the house after all so it's mine"
I said nothing.
At church, we ended up not sitting together just like last week. That's ok. The sermon was good, had a lot of relationship stuff in it that was relevant.
On the way home we were quiet. I have been practicing 'smiling' for no reason. I noticed that she kept looking at me from time to time. Then she said "Thank you for being understanding about the crazy things I'm doing. Thank you for staying in your heart space in spite of all we're going through right now".
I paused, and said "I don't think you're crazy". Then I said "W, this is who I am. I can't stop it or avoid it. It's who I really am.".
The rest of the ride home was uneventful.
Later she needs some help with her computer to burn a CD after she tries on her own several times with help from D17. Her computer is older and often doesn't work quite right. I end up helping her, and she's grateful and plays the 'helpless little girl' card a few times. Cute eyes, smiles. Just like normal everyday life used to be.
I kind of ignored her 'playfulness' and fixed the problem then left her there. Not mean, just trying to be indifferent.
That's about it. Now she and D12 are painting their toenails and fingers. Girl stuff. And she's being sort of pleasant but mostly indifferent to me.
I think she's really got some deep, old issues and I have no clue what she's going to do about it. But, when I'm 'strong and in charge' she can do ok with life. When I'm not, she slowly gets into her own issues and can't deal with life any more so she runs away. I don't know what she expects to get from this 'pilgrimage' on tuesday but it's clearly something that is weighing on her soul.
It's very true - this isn't about me. I just wish we could both get to the same place at the same time. I don't have as many of these intense 'past life' issues, I'm more into the present issues of fears and self esteem. I think I've dealt pretty much with my childhood stuff - it's the present that is hard right now.
First of all, the advice that you have given others, including me, is NOT overshadowed by your "fall from grace" as you call it. You have helped countless people on this board, and others, and have been an inspriation for many. It does get difficult when you find yourself engaged in trench warfare again. It pains me to read about your W. talking about moving to her old home town with one bed where your kids can sleep when they visit. What's stopping her from pulling the trigger here?
You're right on target. Detach. Tough when she's there every moment. Much easier for me from 7K miles away and being away for more than a year.
First of all, the advice that you have given others, including me, is NOT overshadowed by your "fall from grace" as you call it. You have helped countless people on this board, and others, and have been an inspriation for many.
Agreed!
Frank, remember that HUUUGE fall from grace I took some time ago? You know the one... Well, you did not tell ME that my advice was overshadowed by it. In fact as I recall, I actually learned quite a bit about myself and my motivations at the time. As will you. And I'll tell you what I've learned SINCE then, as well...there are no "falls" from grace. Just prideful, stubborn and self-centered WALKS OUT OF IT. Fortunately, that doesn't have to be the END of our stories.
Well, yesterday I was in a bit of a funk. So, W stopped being nice to me.
I went for a walk in the evening and she called me on my cell to tell me she was going to do a massage, and asked me if I was 'ok'. I was ok because I had spent an hour or so talking to Spitfire on the phone (thank you Spitfire). And of course, why does she care, I didn't leave in a huff or anything?
I said I was 'fine, having a nice long walk'. She said 'ok'. Told me about her massage she had to go do. I cut the call short as soon as possible.
Later we went to bed at about the same time (11 pm) and I was in bed first, covered up and really tired. She got into the bed, turned off the light and didn't say good night.
This morning she's a little torqued. Probably because today is the day she goes on her 'releasing old stuff' adventure I mentioned in Sundays post. She must have told D17 and D12 something so they wouldn't wonder why she wasn't home tonight.
She was sort of pleasant when she talked to me.
She left to take the kids to school. She called me about an hour later to let me know she was on her way to do her 'releasing'. she told me she had taken the drawing her mom had made of her when she was 14 and that has been hanging on the wall in our bedroom, and that it was 'not coming back'.
I told her that I hoped she found what she was looking for and and she said she wasn't looking for anything, she was 'releasing'. I said 'ok, well I hope things work out for you. If you need us we're here'. She seemed annoyed when I said that. So I said "I meant that if you want to talk to the girls I'll be here so they'll be here also".
I decided I better cut the conversation short, which I did. She said "see you tomorrow".
Crazy stuff.
I talked to a mutual friend (T) today about this stuff that has been going on. She was a bit shocked but kind of understands as she know W's personality. She knows 'mr text message' and told me that she saw him with his W and that he seemed to really love her, and they seemed to be very happy together. She said that it was interesting that the text messages slowed down after the 'Casino Night' because He and his W were there, holding hands, being happy, having fun. W had to have seen that and had some kind of reaction.
'T' felt that there was no way he'd break up his marriage for W. But that he might be flattered by the attention. Who knows.
She also told me that maybe W just isn't right for me. She said that she understands the drinking and other stuff but it's still no reason to leave a marriage, especially when she sees that I'm strong and together right now, and that she's always seen me as pretty together, but as a 'type A' I need someone who is as strong as I am, or at lease not as weak as W is. And she said "I know your W is weak, she's always been one to avoid conflicts or other issues".
She said she has a sister like W, who acts in a similar way by running away when the going gets tough. She said I deserve better than this. Even though she knows W and thinks she's a really nice person she sees the weakness, and has no respect for that. As she added "You're kids need one parent who is strong, it has to be you".
I told her I know we could make this work if W would only realize that also and she said "Of course you could, you're a type A, you'd make it work. But you can't do it alone."
No, I can't. I can make my life work alone though. Which I am doing.
Daughters are the greatest. My favorite person to be with is my daughter. I love my sweetheart. But 'sunshine' at 15 is too much fun and always has been. She's cool and pretty popular, but she'll ditch her friends to be with me.
It makes me tooooo happy.
But it didn't start out that way. After the D.....I was resentful that I had all the responsibility (he left the kids when I filed (pre-DB...came here for a later relationship) ....but...in time....I got to see my alone time with them as a serious gift. That's not my wisdom...it's their coolness. I have the best kids ever!
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
I remember your heart-wrenching and very raw posts when I first got here 2 years ago. I just read your thread and recent very big updates.
I'm so sorry about where things are turning.
I was very hopeful that it was working out for you.
I will say this. I remember you describing your past, the man you were before this forced you into a transformation you liked.
Don't forget any of that. Now, you see very clearly, the benefits were not for the M, but rather for YOU. You have healed, grown and developed in so many ways.
Always be proud of that. Always be proud of the man you chose to become, in the toughest of circumstances.
This is about her. This is not your failure or shame, though those feelings are hard to shake....I know.
I remember your heart-wrenching and very raw posts when I first got here 2 years ago. I just read your thread and recent very big updates.
I'm so sorry about where things are turning.
I was very hopeful that it was working out for you.
I will say this. I remember you describing your past, the man you were before this forced you into a transformation you liked.
Don't forget any of that. Now, you see very clearly, the benefits were not for the M, but rather for YOU. You have healed, grown and developed in so many ways.
Always be proud of that. Always be proud of the man you chose to become, in the toughest of circumstances.
This is about her. This is not your failure or shame, though those feelings are hard to shake....I know.
Stay strong.
Thanks, I try so hard not to feel like I failed. I really didn't 'heal' 2 years ago, I fixed what was broken around me but didn't have anything left for myself. I was 'propped up' but in the end, not healed. I ended up back at the beginning, but not quite so beat up this time.
I'm working on that now. I think when this thread locks I'll move to 'Surviving the big D'. There's no DB'ing to be done here any longer. I think my 'hold' on W has been weak at best. Like Counselor says, she 'orbits' around me. When I'm nice and cordial she's happy and nice in return. If I withdraw by detaching she becomes angry. It's not something you can build a marriage on, and she doesn't want to be married anyway.
So many people tell me that she's not a good match for me, especially at this point in our lives where life is not easy.
How much longer do I need to hurt? As my friend told me today, if it wasn't 'text message guy' it would be someone else. I can't fill her bucket right now, hell I can't fill MY bucket right now. If we were to reconcile, what will happen the next time things are tough?
She's a lost and damaged soul. Even at my emotional WORST I'm nowhere near as lost as she is. I'm sad about that. I miss the parts of her that I love.
She just called to tell me where she was. On a beach watching the sunset. I was pleasant and talked for about a half minute, then gave her to the kids. I felt like it was best to keep it short or I'd start asking questions and make a mistake. And hurt myself.
Do I still feel 'hopeful' a little? Yes I do. I'm just not someone who gives up easily. It's time to stop, that's the only way to get sanity and peace. Stop.
I'm so sad. I know it's time to let go and it's hard.
