"Insists"? Does this not count as some form of attempt at re-connection? Does she have to get on her knees and beg or what? I know it sounds harsh, but even "tough love" shows some compassion and you need to balance compassion with your children's best interests.
Your question as to "when is it my turn" plays through my head quite a lot, but...and it's the same answer as always...it's never really my turn. The question then goes to "can I live with what is?" and that's a tougher one that I have problems answering myself.
She's trying, but I know she's lost, FIB. You're sounding more and more burned out on the whole thing and that's to be expected. No one can measure your "best before" date other than you.
Try to see her attempts as positive but hold the line and try to get her to open up on what she wants. Tell her you can't read minds and need to know. Best of luck
Thank you FIB for listening and trying to understand where I was coming from. I appreciate it very much. I truly am just trying to understand and help.
Ok...
Quote:
I have told her in the past that I cannot do a separation and dangle another year in the breeze when she had two years now..two years and three indiscretions to know what she wanted. I also told her that my L told me that separation was NOT in my best interest if there was no hope for reconciliation.
As far as my mind can see it. If your done your done. Then your attorney would be correct. But if you ARE NOT DONE, then seperation would be the BEST option. You get a break from the constant being with her, she gets her chance to do what she says, she gets her chance for action. She gets the chance to be totally responsible for her actions. Her. Not you. Her.
I have definatly decided that it is much easier to NOT LIVE with the person. Even tho I do not get much contact, I know he needed the space, I also know I could NEVER function normally with him being here. It would have taken it's toll on me far more than it already has.
Neither one of us would have been given the opportunity to grow, change, learn, appreciate or understand.
Uhm, option #2....will definalty require some "alone" time for her to even begin to understand this. She will not be able to read those 9 pages and do it with you sitting there watching her every move. I would be afraid of failing so bad that I would drive myself NUTSIER trying to do it with you constantly looking for any mistake I made....
Sorry FIB for you being in this ugly position in life. I truly am. I am just looking for a different way. I can see you dearly loved your wife once, I can see you hold a lot of mistrust in her and it will take a lot to get it back.
So again I have to say this, and I can only say it as it has been my experience. Divorce solved NOTHING. Everything has remained the SAME as when we were seperated. You on the other hand can make the change before the divorce by trying the seperation first you are in the opposite position of where I was....you are open to change, Rich was not seeing it. You might be able to see it and restore it before it hits the divorce court.
I say this only if this is what you WANT to try. Trying is what we have been doing for so long now. I'm tired of trying also FIB, but for some reason I'm just not quite done yet.
Hugs
Jeanette
Change the Policy. Allow PM's Free all of us.
Also some new and improved emoticons would be nice!
As far as my mind can see it. If your done your done. Then your attorney would be correct. But if you ARE NOT DONE, then seperation would be the BEST option. You get a break from the constant being with her, she gets her chance to do what she says, she gets her chance for action. She gets the chance to be totally responsible for her actions. Her. Not you. Her.
That is an interesting idea and may do some good. But FIB does not have to stop the process for a separation to happen: she is free to move out at any time. A legal separation is not needed to do what you suggest. They can separate until the trial date. That will be a long time; I don't know about NY but I was separated 16 months from the time we filed until the time we settled out of court (and we still did not have a court date yet).
FIB cannot move out b/c custody is a real issue given her history with the kids. But she can move anytime. Her moving would also be more cost effective and would really give her a taste of life alone. In fact, this may be a way for her to demonstrate that she is serious about saving the M, not just saying she does not want to D. Time for her to do some of the work.
But I imagine if FIB suggests this she will say no.
And for the record my 16 months did nothing to save my M. I consider it wasted effort. But my situation is my situation, not FIB's.
Go back and read what you wrote about your W. She demands to be held? Demands to stay married. Is a total mess on some days and sleeping around with several people.
Up one day. Down another. Good mom one day, neglectful another. Fine with D, working out, dressing to kill one day, having fun being single, and then wham....she's demanding to be married and be kissed. Another day she can't touch you.
FIB. You are a Dr. You KNOW this is something that needs therapy and pills. Not lengthy posts on analyzing her committment level to the M, her choices to "woman up" and prove herself.
She has amazing changes day to day. I don't think she can really help it. I honestly think it's beyond making simple choices.
So, I will tell you what I tell myself. This isn't personal. It's chemical. It may not change the outcome, but it is what it is. You have to admit, read aroudn here, and your W (and my xh) are a little more than the usual MLC story.
She can function well enough to take college courses and pass them with A's....
She can function well enough to carry on a relationship outside of marriage, including pursuing an individual through internet searches...
She can function well enough to participate in school functions, like registering children for school...
But because she vascillates back and forth on marriage and committment, MOST OFTEN when FIB actually takes a step AWAY from her....she has mental health issues that preclude her from being held to normal human standards of decency?
I mean really, I don't mean to come across as a mean-spirited woman basher, but FIB's wife's actions are not random and willy-nilly in my opinion. They are CALCULATED.
What has she DONE to make real her desire to remain in a committed, loving, and devoted relationship to FIB, the man she desires to spend the rest of her life with?
Why is she able to go find a young surfer dude to light her internal fires, but she's only able to express a desire to keep her marriage when her husband suggests he's ready to move on?
There is a fundamental question at work here, and FIB has already asked it.
When is enough, enough? When has the offending spouse gone TOO far, past the point where simply saying "I don't want a divorce" is not good enough anymore?
I'm not suggesting in any way that FIB's wife doesn't have some mental health issues that need dealt with. And by the way, she is in pretty good company, since all of us have been at least close to that position ourselves. But these issues have NOT incapacitated her from anything except her desire for her marriage to this point. And the only reason the marriage is now something that she doesn't want to lose is THAT SHE ACTUALLY THINKS SHE'S GOING TO LOSE IT!
I am NOT an advocate for divorce, despite what some may choose to believe on this board. I hate divorce. I believe it is NEVER something that should be an option for two people who join in a committed relationship with one another. I have expressed to FIB on many occasions the hope that I have had for his marriage. Hope is not the same thing as faith though. Faith is believing without seeing any evidence that something is true. Hope comes when we begin to see at least little pieces of evidence that there might be a chance.
Wanting hugs and kisses now that divorce has been filed for MAY qualify as a little piece of evidence, but after the past two years, there better be a LOT more than that on the way.
You know what? It IS possible for trust to be destroyed. It IS possible to be hurt so badly, and so often, that you lose the desire you once possessed for someone. And it IS possible that sometimes the only way to find peace for yourself in that situation is to move on and find that peace alone.
FIB's choice is HIS choice. But let's not try to guilt him into providing special dispensation for someone who has spent two years doing NOTHING to show that she has an interest in them or their future.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I really wanted to comment on Jeanette's remarks about divorce and what it "solves."
I've been divorced now for about 15 months. My ex-wife and I now interact peacefully in just about everything. Our relationship regarding our boys is particularly friendly, with both of us having a strong desire for both parents to be involved in their lives as much as possible (even if she did move 500 miles away).
Divorce brought peace between us. A peace that did not exist in the months leading up to the divorce.
For me there will never be a future with my ex-wife again. But if that had been a possibility, the peace that our divorce brought to us would have helped increase that possibility.
Particularly in situations where there has been spousal betrayals, I think separation is a crucial part of getting to the point where you can find that inner peace again. And without that, it seems to me that there is little possibility of restoring the relationship one day.
It's unfortunate in this day and age that often a legal separation is a dangerous position between estranged spouses. Legal manuevering can make it possible for a less than honest wandering spouse to take advantage of the goodwill of a LBS who is just hoping for another chance at the marriage. In a perfect world this would not figure in to our decisions. In this world it has to, at least a little.
In my opinion separation or divorce makes no difference in leading to a restoration of the marital relationship unless both parties are interested in such a thing. And if both parties are interested, neither separation NOR divorce are hurdles that make such a thing impossible.
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Wonderful post Bill!! I wish I had a way with words as you and Always14 do! Awesome qualities!
Your getting no guilt thrown in any directions from me. Just a need to look for solutions and understanding. Thats it.
She is functioning well enough to do all you said. Yup! I do not disagree that she should be capable of functioning in all those areas alone either.
Enough is enough when the other party simply cannot stand it anymore, there is no love left and all avenues have been ridden down.
Its a tough place to be....
Quote:
They are CALCULATED
They certaintly appear to be, but why?? Is she just afraid of being alone?? She is not going to suffer financially thats for sure. So what could be the reason?
Quote:
You know what? It IS possible for trust to be destroyed. It IS possible to be hurt so badly, and so often, that you lose the desire you once possessed for someone. And it IS possible that sometimes the only way to find peace for yourself in that situation is to move on and find that peace alone.
ABSOLUTELY!! No disagreement on that either.
Just searching for answers in a somewhat answerless world for the positions we are in.
Jeanette
Change the Policy. Allow PM's Free all of us.
Also some new and improved emoticons would be nice!
It is called compartmentalization. She can function in some areas quite well but have issues with high emotional requirements.
Oh for God's sake, MMF. I am surprised at you.
The problem here in a shiny little nutshell ain't that this "area" has "high emotional requirements". Buying a damn dog has "high emotional requirements". Sooner or later you're gonna draw the line at the dog pooping in your living room aren't you? EVEN when it looks at you with those big ol' eyes and it's raining outside, you're gonna make it go outside to poop. That's not so different than this when you get right down to it. That therapy and medication crap is more of a copout than a lot of people will ever admit. Sorry. Disagree with me if you will but there are serious accountability issues when it comes to MLCers and pussyfooting around with them does not help. Now if I misread or mistook your post, I apologize but between that and all the stupid crap stuck at the top of this forum, I'm about to blow a gasket!
Then she is really manipulating the situation Amy. I don't know. The question, whether it was a serious one or not, asked how FIBs wife could be handling schoolwork and other situations but is all over the place in her personal life. I stated that there are people who compartmentalize and she could be one of those people.
Me:56, W:51 D:26,S:24,S:22 Married:18 Bomb 9/27/06 Separated 11/27/06 Divorced 10/6/08 Leaving it up to God
