Meredith - your 5 years..

[MissH]

That was an awesome post my Merideth. It gets me motivated. I think I should print it out and save it with some of my other good reads.

[inmyplace]

It's all good, Pam. Ex is off to a conference and my sons boys will be here soon. Next weekend, it is off to see my brother and my best friend.

[cagzmom]

I am excited to pick her brain. really!!

Just so my motivaiton is clear--- how she moved on, got a life etc. I am not looking for "quick answers" or quick resolve. But just so much of what she wrote was so good. SO MUCH. GOOD reminders. AND GOOD EXAMPLE.

I sit on the edge of my seat for tomorrow... =)

[Meredith]

Hi Cagzmom (and everyone)!

Thanks for the shout out!

First of all, it was never a time limited plan...5 years was just what it happened to wind up being. I don't want people to think that I had an actual timeline that I executed.

That alone is actually something to think about. 5 years is a long time for some things and a relatively short time for others. When we're talking getting our spouse home, we tend to put that on the short term - no one wants to wait forever. Yet when you think about removing the ingrained habits and negativity from yourself, 5 years might not be that long after all. Granted, I wouldn't mind if he had come home a lot sooner...

Yes, I was the "strong one". The one who finally got smart and dumped his sorry carcass. It made it hard to DB, because it all sounded like a load of bunk to the friends and family who couldn't figure out why I wanted this man in the first place. We were not the "such a shame" divorcing couple.

Even now, people are shocked that we're married again and it "works now". Yes, it does work now. It works because I have learned so much about my personality and his and know better than to have to have it all my way. It's not easy but it works now. He knows that I have my standards but I don't shove them down his throat. He wants to do right by me and our family. It can't be easy for him everyday either, but it works now.

As for the question and answer thread - please do. Ask away. I post from work so I might not be immediate in my response, but I will be as prompt as I can be.

[Meredith]

Hi Fixer,

I understand that you were looking to motivate your wife, and sometimes we do work like that (I work well under pressure). Yet, it's very controlling to throw your approaching deadline out there to see if she scurries. I surely wouldn't be motivated by that even if I had been leaning toward reconciliation.

Now, if YOU are feeling that to move on to the next stage of YOU it is time to make some changes - well, that's a lot different. Not to see what she does with them, mind you.

I'd love to see your Goals thread, can you direct me there?

[cagzmom]

Meredith. I guess where I am "lacking" is that I didn't SEE myself as the strong one. Just now am I awaking from the cocoon that I have been in - I had lost myself in him --- yet it was he who was weak not I. Strange huh?

Short scoop story. In North Carolina NO NO divorce until 1 year from date of seperation. So...the year is coming up soon. The seperation and paper work has been in play for a year-- we ended up in mediation in December (money) and I am glad that I have protected myself financially. His credit is so bad now that he can't even get a new apartment. So in that I am thankful for legal seperation. BUT this is where I am...

Many of those who love me are asking me if I am goign to file in March - you know they say things liek "Beat him to it.." Or you are sepearted he has moved on it is time you do..etc etc. At this time I dont know in my own personal heart if that is what I SHOULD do. You wrote in your post that you had a calmness when you finally did it...and I guess that is my question. What brought you to that calmness?

Me? right now if I did it it WOULD be to say "See" or to try and get a reaction and that was who I USED TO BE.I am not htat person anymore. BUT on the other hand, he has moved on...and maybe by filing it will allow me to truly let go. See- I do know this. The man that I love today is deep inside this monster....and right now the monster is done with me, our family everything. The ONLY way I will have a new marriage with this man is if the monster is dead -and a new man emerges.

So, what was the "Turn" in you? Where did the calmness come from? AND in regards to going dark..how do you do it when you have to share your child/children every/other weekend with the dork?

[Meredith]

I didn't see myself as the strong one either. He had all the cards and I was just hoping for the best, right? Plus in all my efforts to control the situation I was freely admitting that I was NOT the strong one. Emotionally, strong is relative. I was strong enough in the end to get up off the floor and walk forward, no matter how many walls I bumped into along the way but it didn't feel very strong to me, then. Co-dependancy can play into this too, but that's one of those easy labels.

From what you've said in your last post, I would advise that you not file for divorce at this time. Saying "See?" sounds good, believe me I know. But it rarely brings much peace. Especially when you'll be having a lot of future children-related interaction.

How did I get calm? Drugs. Good ones.

No, I'm kidding. I went dark, truly dark. I challenged myself. The thing with my situation was that it had stagnated but there was still the "loveyoubye" thing at the end of phone conversations. It was him living the bachelor life and me living the divorce buster life. So... I went dark. I stopped with the "loveyoubye" thing, I stopped any conversation that did not directly relate to a mutual interest - house, children, shared money. I never initiated contact. It was HARD. I wasn't good at patience or darkness despite my miserable previous attempts. It's easier when you get out there and get a life. I figured that out early on in the process, but I never realized the true benefit until I was dark.

It's hard to keep jumping around in time periods, but if you read my back threads there were times pre-darkness when the children drop offs were brutal. I would get resentful about something in the conversation and whoosh, we'd be down a typical road fast. In darkness, I switched children with the mindset that I had to rush and it was buckle, buckle, leave. In pre-darkness I'd stretch to keep his attention on the phone. In darkness I would change the subject or have to go when the conversation veered off course. I was never once rude, in darkness. Pre-darkness I'd find reasons to call and then excuse myself by saying, "well, I had to know if the baby ate dinner, didn't I!??!" No, not really. It became a challenge to NOT call. Here baby, are you hungry? No? You must have eaten. It works just as well as phone tag and is far more effective.

Eventually, when I was interacting with him ONLY on shared interests, I lost a lot of the tension and resentment. I would also trust my instinct/peace by praying or meditating and asking "divorce?" and waiting for the answer (to me there are three potential answers - yes, no and wait). When I felt calm with "yes", I filed.

From there, our friendship was able to climb slowly. VERY slowly. We were excellent co-parents because we had a friendship base to it. I never once argued about who would throw a birthday party or who had what weekend when. It was never an issue. Eventually my husband was able to watch who I had become and reach more and more toward me until he concluded that he had made a grave mistake. He didn't say anything for a year after that revolation, and then made his apology.

Unless you live in Smallville, I'm going to assume that the monster really is a shell for a man who is confused and is lashing out in that confusion. If he's anything like my husband, it's a lot easier to do what feels good in the moment than to inwardly examine what's wrong. It's a lot easier to blame and push than it is to accept someone's positive changes. And to be totally fair - it must be tough to accept at first!

I give my children windex to take with them as "monster spray" when we have a closet or underside of the bed inhabited with monsters. You could try spraying him with windex, but it might not be the reaction you want. So, my advice to you is - duck, dodge, dip and dive to avoid the monster's moods. If you're dark, it won't matter who he is or isn't done with. It won't matter what he does with his time. You're far to busy to deal with that right now - busy being you.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, you are NOT going to miss the one vital opportunity to save this marriage if you are dark. By hanging up a phone you are NOT going to be missing out on his once in a lifetime revelation of personal feelings. By dodging his interaction you are NOT going to be consenting to his new lifestyle and sending him into it deeper. It took me a long time to truly understand that.

[cagzmom]

First may I say ... wow wow and wow!! So much truth - so much. I appreciate this so much!! For the first time in almost 6 months I am seeking advice here FOR ME ..and Meredith..well thank you.

I didn't see myself as the strong one either. He had all the cards and I was just hoping for the best, right? Plus in all my efforts to control the situation I was freely admitting that I was NOT the strong one. Emotionally, strong is relative. I was strong enough in the end to get up off the floor and walk forward, no matter how many walls I bumped into along the way but it didn't feel very strong to me, then. Co-dependancy can play into this too, but that's one of those easy labels.

Yes he held the cards - all of them. NEVER has anyone said it so plainly. There is something about the label though..it brought an "identity to me..MANY MANY ah ha moments this past year.

From what you've said in your last post, I would advise that you not file for divorce at this time. Saying "See?" sounds good, believe me I know. But it rarely brings much peace. Especially when you'll be having a lot of future children-related interaction.

This falls back to what you said later in your post...3 choices. DO/Dont and WAIT. I ONLY want to move with peace now. My fear of course is that HE will file...

How did I get calm? Drugs. Good ones.

And wine..a few beers...oh wait that isn't the way we are suppose to cope is it??!! SHOOT!

In darkness, I switched children with the mindset that I had to rush and it was buckle, buckle, leave. In pre-darkness I'd stretch to keep his attention on the phone. In darkness I would change the subject or have to go when the conversation veered off course. I was never once rude, in darkness. Pre-darkness I'd find reasons to call and then excuse myself by saying, "well, I had to know if the baby ate dinner, didn't I!??!" No, not really. It became a challenge to NOT call. Here baby, are you hungry? No? You must have eaten. It works just as well as phone tag and is far more effective.

Here I think I am dark..yet when he is here I do find ways to "lingerlonger." truth being I find things to talk about....and this is what I need to STOP! FOR ME!!

Eventually, when I was interacting with him ONLY on shared interests, I lost a lot of the tension and resentment. I would also trust my instinct/peace by praying or meditating and asking "divorce?" and waiting for the answer (to me there are three potential answers - yes, no and wait). When I felt calm with "yes", I filed.

THANK you for sharing that.

that revolation, and then made his apology.

Unless you live in Smallville, I'm going to assume that the monster really is a shell for a man who is confused and is lashing out in that confusion. If he's anything like my husband, it's a lot easier to do what feels good in the moment than to inwardly examine what's wrong. It's a lot easier to blame and push than it is to accept someone's positive changes. And to be totally fair - it must be tough to accept at first!

Uh do you know my husband? He is a runner-rather than face his stuff he will lie to himself and those around him. Yes the monster is a mess....

If you're dark, it won't matter who he is or isn't done with. It won't matter what he does with his time. You're far to busy to deal with that right now - busy being you.

finally some true definitions or ideas or i don't know..i just think I see how i have lied to myself. I have been distant- kind- and strong - but still to muhc "light". Dark is what I NEED!!

MOST IMPORTANTLY, you are NOT going to miss the one vital opportunity to save this marriage if you are dark. By hanging up a phone you are NOT going to be missing out on his once in a lifetime revelation of personal feelings. By dodging his interaction you are NOT going to be consenting to his new lifestyle and sending him into it deeper. It took me a long time to truly understand that.

And the final truth. The reason I stay "awake" and haven't gone dark. AFRAID of missing out on the "chance." Jeez' I feel like a fool...NOT in a bad way..but just having you actually write that last part. It was like you saw into my head. Yet another wakeup call.

The interaction with him when he picks up my daughter is hard. NOT because he is mean. My husband is "passive agressive." He doesnt want to fight either...he would rather be kind and mess with my head. AND OF COURSE IT DOES! I need to be busy ---find a way to be in a rush when he comes. YES for a time it will be a game..but hopefully in time it wont be.

thank you for taking the time to write.

[CMNM]

finally some true definitions or ideas or i don't know..i just think I see how i have lied to myself. I have been distant- kind- and strong - but still to muhc "light". Dark is what I NEED!!

This reminds me of one of my favorite Meredithisms that came up once when we were discussing, off the BB, someone who always claimed to be "dark" but was always in her H's business:

Her version of dark would have me rooting around my purse for my sunglasses




Don't feel bad, Cagzmom, we've all been there. I have also been guilty of thinking that there was the one call out there that was THE call, and God forbid if I missed it.

I have come to learn that if someone truly wants something/someone badly enough, an unanswered call will not take that away.

Mer and I were both guilty of pinning hopes on certain events, and then inevitably ending up disappointed. Once you learn the value of "no expectations," your life gets tremendously easier. And, when things do happen, you truly appreciate them.

May I ask you this-
Other than the obvious, why do you fear him filing so much that it may make you jump the gun on it? I do understand wanting to have some control, but I really caution against acting out of fear. I believe you will live to regret that, no matter how this all shakes out.

I am glad that you are seeing too what a gem my Meredith is!

Mer.. uh, don't forget about me..... it's lonely in the corner!

[Meredith]

OH Cagzmom… believe me, I get the passive aggressive man ALL too well!!

When we’re talking about the actual process of filing for divorce, it gets blood boiling. No one wants to be the one to get served. No one wants to be the one blindsided by it. It’s very obvious why it sounds good to just do it first. The problem with the perceived satisfaction of serving him in front of his peers is just that – it’s perceived. It’s not nearly as much fun as it sounds, I promise. Also, if you are doing it to gain closure or end this chapter in your life, that isn’t very accurate either. You should do those things FIRST and come back to the lawyer after you’re calm, steady and ready.

It sounds as though you aren’t getting a feeling of calm and peace from “yes” in regards to filing. So, don’t. If he does it first then he does it first. However, if he is a runner you might be surprised to find that he likely won’t file. Runners don’t like conflict and divorces are riddled with conflict even in the best scenarios.

Now, if he does file first, be the role model. Accept your papers gracefully and do not get bitter, angry or rude in front of him. You do all that stuff over a bottle of wine with your girlfriends ;). I know it sounds unfair and wrong, but the more anger you build now the more you’ll have to knock down later. It won’t affect him like it should, but it will drag you down to depths that you don’t need to be in.

Stopping the “lingerlonger” conversations are hard. It’s nothing but difficult to have the opportunity to talk and chat with someone that you really enjoy talking with and cutting it short. The problem is that these conversations often leave us feeling a little empty and exhausted. They give us little tidbits to hold onto, as well as a whole lot to analyze. Darkness is a good break from that and gives THEM a good break from it, too.

I don’t think that having to “rush” is a game – more of a challenge. If you don’t want it to be a game, then force yourself into plans. Plans surrounding your daughter are harder to break since she’ll be the one reminding you. Join Gymboree, make it a habit to do the Java Jungle (local to me, but I’m sure you have something similar), initiate a standing play date or something like that on her return home. Getting another friend involved will help that too. Have your car running because you’re just on your way out. Make yourself rush for real if faking it doesn’t seem right!

Now, word of advice here. If your husband is passive-aggressive like mine, he’ll be late. Make sure that doesn’t get to you even if you want to wring his #$%@ neck. I promise it will stop. Eventually.